JTTA: Selection System to be Revamped for Paris 2024

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Yeah, that's quite revealing as Ito's name should've come first because qualification by WR is listed before the selection trial in the selection criteria.

https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz...024ajia_2025world_selection_criteria_0821.pdf

the intern made a mistake. I think you're overthinking on this one

 

[zeio]

Hayata should step aside. Assuming one month preparation she would have to start training around now, doesn't seem like enough time to recover from her severe injury. Looks like JNT are testing out Odo to see if she can break into the main team. Miwa, Odo + Hayata for 2028?

To be frank, only Miwa is set for LA 2028. The odds for Hirano, Hayata and Ito are roughly the same if the selection system remains unchanged. There is no telling what happened to Ito wouldn't happen to Hayata and it doesn't have to do with injuries. It comes down to how she positions herself in the next cycle.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

To be frank, only Miwa is set for LA 2028. The odds for Hirano, Hayata and Ito are roughly the same if the selection system remains unchanged. There is no telling what happened to Ito wouldn't happen to Hayata and it doesn't have to do with injuries. It comes down to how she positions herself in the next cycle.

But Hayata and Ito is completely different
I think one important factor you forgot is Hayata is not Ito in terms of playing style, personality, attitude and even lefty combination.
Hayata to me has achieved way more than Ito has every achieved, so that also takes a lot of merit.

you some times can't just put things on an excel sheet and compare. They are real life people

 

[NextLevel]

But Hayata and Ito is completely different
I think one important factor you forgot is Hayata is not Ito in terms of playing style, personality, attitude and even lefty combination.
Hayata to me has achieved way more than Ito has every achieved, so that also takes a lot of merit.

you some times can't just put things on an excel sheet and compare. They are real life people

Some of this is open to debate since Ito beat a lot of the top Chinese at ITTF events early but never got a singles WTTC medal while Hayata hasn't beaten a lot of the top Chinese but had a singles medal, but the more I reflect on what you wrote, I can't agree that Hayata has achieved way more than Ito, I keep running through my mind over whether the WTTC medal is everything because if Ito's unlucky draws when SYS was the lowest rated Chinese and I can't see it because Ito has basically played many WTTCs and being almost always eliminated by Chinese players.

I do agree that health permitting, Hayata's style is far more difficult to match up with than Ito for upcoming players. But I am focused on the achievement part and I don't think that is fair to Ito at all.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Some of this is open to debate since Ito beat a lot of the top Chinese at ITTF events early but never got a singles WTTC medal while Hayata hasn't beaten a lot of the top Chinese but had a singles medal, but the more I reflect on what you wrote, I can't agree that Hayata has achieved way more than Ito, I keep running through my mind over whether the WTTC medal is everything because if Ito's unlucky draws when SYS was the lowest rated Chinese and I can't see it because Ito has basically played many WTTCs and being almost always eliminated by Chinese players.

I do agree that health permitting, Hayata's style is far more difficult to match up with than Ito for upcoming players. But I am focused on the achievement part and I don't think that is fair to Ito at all.

Hayata has achieved way more, it isn't just medal, but it is also image (something zeio and his pals are trying to destroy)

Ito is limited and zeio thinks all japanese people must retire when they are 24.
so anything in that line is just silly.

I don't just look at H2H with Chinese players, but as a whole.
Ito had early day glory, Hayata's time has really just started imo.

I had met both of them (including Hirano) 8 years ago, and I always thought Hirano would last longer, but Hayata was the more complete player as she grew taller. I have always my doubts on early success wonders, since it is just too rare - not even Chinese players can live up to it, and the only person ever was Deng Yaping, who retired at 24.... what is the odds, lol. Maybe zeio was calling for her retirement too

 

[apacible]

Yea I know, I was referring to the fact that they signed her up for WD and XD. If they didn't want to groom her they wouldn't have bothered arranging doubles pairings for her (see Miyu Kato).

Also interesting how Odo's name comes before Ito's in both singles and team listings.

Yeah, that's quite revealing as Ito's name should've come first because qualification by WR is listed before the selection trial in the selection criteria.

https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz...024ajia_2025world_selection_criteria_0821.pdf

Actually, it seems JTTA listed the names in the order stated in the selection criteria:

(1) Selection method for men's and women's singles representative players (maximum number of entries: 5 men and 5 women)
① Men's and women's Japanese representative players for the Paris 2024 Olympics (HAYATA, HIRANO, M. HARIMOTO)
② The highest ranked Japanese player in the singles world ranking for the week including 14 days before the final entry date for the Asian Championships (HAYATA AGAIN)
③ Winner of the Japanese representative selection tournament for the Asian Championships (hereinafter referred to as the selection tournament) (ODO)
④ If the players selected from ① to ③ above overlap and do not reach the maximum number of entries, the players will be selected in the following order.
a) The winner of the singles general division of the 2024 All Japan Table Tennis Championships
b) The top ranked Japanese players in the singles world ranking for the week including 14 days before the final entry date for the Asian Championships, excluding ② in (1) above (THERE IS AN OVERLAP as HAYATA is a member of the Paris Olympic Team, the Highest Ranked Japanese Player, and All Japan Champion, so ITO FALLS HERE. Ito qualified not under ② but under ④ b)

So, it really should be Hayata, Hirano, M. Harimoto, Odo, Ito in that order.

The same thing happened in how the Men's team was listed:
T. Harimoto, Togami, Shinozuka, Kenji Matsudaira, M. Yoshimura.
Likewise, M. Yoshimura qualified under ④ b) since there is an overlap with T. Harimoto being a member of the Paris Olympic Team, the Highest Ranked Japanese Player, and All Japan Champion

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Yokoi just soundly beat Odo 3-0 at Contender Almaty. There's going to be massive competition for that 3rd spot at LA 2028: Hirano, Kihara, Odo, Yokoi, Nagasaki, Ito?, and maybe some other dark horses (4 yrs is a long time).

 

[zeio]

Citing an example from tennis for future reference.

In the post-match interview after winning WS gold (first Asian, male or female, to do so in tennis at the Olympics), Zheng Qinwen said she learned from her final defeat at Australian Open 2024, that she kept her head cooler than usual, played with more patience, and didn't think of finishing the point in one shot at the first opportunity.

21歲鄭欽文奧運奪金後訪談完整版！談吐超越同儕
https://youtu.be/cSMHW7-Arl8?t=44

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-be-revamped-for-paris-2024.24977/post-474046

In case all the posts I've made have not been crystal clear, the first requirement to "keeping the ball on the table" is to stop yourself from the strong urge to finish the point, more often than not with difficult shots that end up going long. The terms that refer to the situation in Chinese are:
起板(opening up, and in this case you need to hold back as Harimoto explained in the quote below);
發死力 (forcing the shots with your muscles stiffening up);
加保險 (adding insurance, which is equivalent to really spinny loops with a relatively higher and shorter trajectory);
上枱 (getting on table) and so on.

 

[zeio]

To be frank, only Miwa is set for LA 2028. The odds for Hirano, Hayata and Ito are roughly the same if the selection system remains unchanged. There is no telling what happened to Ito wouldn't happen to Hayata and it doesn't have to do with injuries. It comes down to how she positions herself in the next cycle.

WTT CT Almaty 2024
WS R16
Kihara 1-3 Yoo Siwoo
Harimoto 2-3 Sasao

Miwa:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

WTT CT Almaty 2024
WS R16
Kihara 1-3 Yoo Siwoo
Harimoto 2-3 Sasao

Miwa:

I guess you will soon call for Miwa's retirement 🤣

 

[driversbeat]

The 6th Japan Road to Paris Olympic Trials dated Nov 25-26 are fast approaching. See the website here: https://jtta.or.jp/tour/13250

The draws have been released already. Like the 5th Trials, draws were done in order of current Japan Paris Points Standings (e.g. 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc.)

Men's Draw: https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz.../11/21155119/2023_Zennoh_CUP_OSAKA_M_Draw.pdf

Women's Draw: https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz.../11/21155118/2023_Zennoh_CUP_OSAKA_F_Draw.pdf

Furthermore, it doesn't seem there will be any TV Tokyo live stream. Like the 3rd Trials, it will only be broadcasted on FUJI TV and FOD Premium.

I made a previous post on how to watch FOD Premium if you have Japan VPN https://mytabletennis.net/forum/2023-zennoh-cup-osaka-11-2526_topic91479_post1134796.html#1134796

Going out on a limb here, but does anyone know where we can watch full matches of the 6th Japan Road to Paris Olympic Trials (Zennou Osaka)? I've searched everywhere but can't seem to find it. Of course freely available would be best but I don't mind paying for FUJI TV and FOD Premium if I have to but only if they still have those videos archived of course. Don't want to risk paying for it only to find out that it was a one-and-done livestream.

 

[zeio]

5ch comments once again show what the general public feels is more important in the pecking order, between WR and selection trials, as well as win rates against non-CNT players and CNT players.

スレ立てるほどでもない大会・海外卓球　女子244
https://itest.5ch.net/mao/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1725011419
0004 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 19:54:16.14
アジア選手権
WS・WT:早田、美和、伊藤、平野、大藤
WD:美和/木原、大藤/横井
XD:吉村/大藤、松島/美和
ID:3Mlq/OHw(1/4)
ATTC
WS/WT: Hayata, Miwa, Ito, Hirano, Odo
WD: Miwa/Kihara, Odo/Yokoi
XD: Yoshimura/Odo, Matsushima/Miwa

0019 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 22:05:53.78
ロスの選考基準って発表された？前回って五輪始まる前から確定してたよね？
世界ランクで選ぶなら、中国トップ3に勝った時のポイント制は廃止？
1
ID:94/05EPD(1/3)
Have the selection criteria for Los Angeles been announced? Last time, they were decided before the Olympics even started, right?
If they choose based on world ranking, should they abolish the points system for beating a top 3 CNT player?

0020 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 22:07:29.72
まだ正式に発表されてない
おそらく世界ランクになるって言ってたけど
ID:q7bDSvRl(2/2)
It hasn't been officially announced yet
They said it will probably be world ranking

0022 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 22:14:15.58
国内選考は廃止でいいけど、日本独自の選考基準欲しいよね
世界ランク+中国トップに勝ったらポイント追加制度。

「中国以外に確実に勝てる安定力(早田とか張本)」
「中国トップにも勝てるワンチャン力(平野とか早田)」の2つを基準にした選考制度
ID:94/05EPD(2/3)
It's fine to abolish domestic selection, but I want Japan's own selection criteria
World ranking + additional points system for beating the top CNT players

A selection system based on two criteria: "The ability to beat anyone with certainty other than China (Hayata or Harimoto)"
"The ability to have a chance to beat the top CNT players (Hirano or Hayata)"

0023 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 22:18:59.28
単に選考基準が世界ランクのみになると、スポンサーのほとんどが中国で、ITTFの権力を実質握ってる中国に操作されかねないんだよね。

だからリスクヘッジとして日本独自の選考基準は欲しい
世界ランクってシードとか出場者で簡単に操作できるし
1
ID:94/05EPD(3/3)
If the selection criteria were simply world rankings, since most of the sponsors would be Chinese, China would essentially hold the power in the ITTF, so it could be easily manipulated.

So I want Japan to have its own selection criteria as a risk hedge.
World rankings can be easily manipulated by seeding and participants.

024 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 22:33:08.44
リスクヘッジは3枠目なんじゃないかなあ
東京五輪の時もT2の中国選手棄権で石川と丹羽が得したけど、損した平野と水谷はちゃんと代表入りしたし
ID:Erc2AdDC(2/2)
I think the 3rd spot is a good way to hedge against risk
At the Tokyo Olympics, Ishikawa and Niwa gained from the withdrawal of CNT players from T2, but Hirano and Mizutani who lost out made the national team.

0029 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 23:27:56.50
>>19
中国トップ3に勝ったらポイント追加制度を希望した伊藤が一度もとれなかったから今度はどうするんだろうね
なかなか中国には勝てないんだからもう少しポイント大きくしてもいいと個人的には思うけど
ID:IkfPgcUj
Ito requested an additional points system if she beat a top 3 CNT player, but she never got any, so I wonder what they will do this time
I personally think they should give more points since it's hard to beat China

0030 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/30(金) 23:35:29.36
中国撃破ポイント希望した伊藤
否定的だった平野
ID:sSF6wExK
Ito wanted points for defeating China
Hirano was negative

0032 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/08/31(土) 01:40:42.32
>>23のいうように完全に世界ランクで決まるのは色々と問題がある
でも世界ランク関係なく国内選考会だけで決めるとなると
国際大会への出場がおざなりとなってランク落としてシード不利になったり国際競争力が落ちる
選手のスポンサーも国際大会への出場に非協力的になる

基本国内選考会を重視するポイント(繰り返すとNGワードで弾かれるので以下Pとする)制だが期間や回数はもっと少なくする
世界ランクで選考会の出場権やシードを決めたらどうかと思う
ホープスや全中上位者を選考会に出場させるという茶番をやめる
世界ランク上位者の撃破Pをランクに応じてつける
TリーグのPは入れない
ID:Lc0YwnKN
As >>23 said, there are various problems with deciding entirely by world ranking
But if it is decided only by domestic selection trials regardless of world ranking
participation in international competitions will be neglected, and players will drop in ranking, which will put them at a disadvantage in terms of seeding and reduce their international competitiveness
Sponsors of players will also be uncooperative with participating in international competitions
Basically, it is a points system (said repeatedly, it will be rejected as an NG word, so from here on let it be P) that emphasizes domestic selection trials, but the period and number of trials should be reduced
I think it would be good to decide the right to participate in the selection trials and the seeding based on the world ranking.
Stop the farce of having the top finishers from Hopes and Inter-High participate in the selection trials
Allocate Ps accordingly for defeating the top players in world ranking
No Ps from the T-League are allowed

0256 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 08:38:59.99
東京大会の時のようにパリのときも世界ランクで決められたら平野美宇はシングルスに選ばれなかった
その方が見ている側は楽しめたかも
3
ID:CDathgH/
If the Paris Olympics had been decided by world rankings like how it was for the Tokyo Olympics, Hirano Miu would not have been selected for singles
It might have been more enjoyable for the spectators

0258 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 09:06:48.75
>>256
ランキングで決めるなら平野も
大会出まくるたろうから今のランキング
に留まることは無かっただろうから
その理屈は通らない
ID:9CwQuvNF
If it were decided by rankings, Hirano
would have participated in many tournaments and
would not have stayed in her current ranking
so that logic doesn't hold up

0261 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 10:35:42.93
【パリ五輪まとめ】
人気も実力も皆無の張本がやはり要らなかった
伊藤にしとけばドイツの無名に負けるなんて無様はなかったし
中国戦でも1ゲームも獲れず惨敗する事もなかった
「張本は中国に勝てそう」などという妄想で頓珍漢なゴリ押し選考を行った結果
日本チームとしてはリオ五輪当時のレベルまで下がってしまった
2
ID:A/zI0+cm
[Summary of the Paris Olympics]
After all, Harimoto, who had no popularity or ability, was not needed
If they had chosen Ito, she would not have lost to an unknown German player
In the match against China, they failed to take a single match and suffered a crushing defeat
As a result of making a ridiculous selection based on the delusion that "Harimoto can beat China"
the Japanese team has fallen to the level it was at at the time of the Rio Olympics

0266 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 11:38:44.97
>>261
対中国の伊藤はどう考えても美和以下
もう長年中国トップにノーチャンスの状態
代表3人は王藝迪に勝っているが伊藤だけ勝てていない
王曼昱にも直前にスト負け最終ゲーム2点しかがとれない形でボコされている
ダブルスもみまひなだとしても中国の対策完了していてあんなに競ることもできなかっただろうし
みうみまも無理だっただろう
伊藤を選んでいたら中国に完全にノーチャンスとなる

伊藤が中国以外に盤石かというと最近はそうではない
日本だと代表3人のほか木原長崎だけではなく木村に負けたり
ワールドカップでスターシニーとワンエイミー相手に予選落ちしたりしている

ダブルスは早田があの状態であそこまでできたのだから
早田が万全ならば勝てた可能性が大きい
そうしたらまた流れも違ったかもしれない
中国に対して最初からノーチャンスの布陣でいくより
わずかでも可能性がある布陣を選んだのは正解

ここ数回の五輪のようにただやられるのを見るだけではない中国との試合を見ることができた

次を考えても美和に五輪を経験させたのはよかった
IDyNUI7Ah
No matter how you look at it, Ito against China is inferior to Miwa
It has been a long time since she had no chance against the top CNT players
The 3 representatives have beaten WYD, but Ito is the only one who has not been able to beat her
She was beaten by WMY just before then, losing in straight games and only getting 2 points in the final game
Even if it was Mima-Hina in doubles, China's measures were already complete and they would not have been able to compete that well
Miu-Mima would have been impossible either
If Ito had been chosen, there would have been no chance against China

Ito is not solid against anyone other than China these days
In Japan, in addition to the 3 representatives, Kihara/Nagasaki and not only that, she also lost to Kimura and was eliminated in the group stage against Suthasini and Wang Amy at the World Cup

Hayata completed the doubles in that condition, so if she had been in top form, there is a good chance she could have won. If she had done that, the flow might have been different
Rather than going with a no-chance lineup against China from the start, it was the right decision to choose a lineup with even a slight possibility

We were able to witness a match against China that wasn't just about getting beaten like the last few Olympics

It was good to let Miwa experience the Olympics, considering the next one

0268 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 12:44:13.38
>>256
伊藤が対中国選手勝利ポイントの新設を言い出さなければ、あるいは伊藤だったかも？
自分で仕掛けた罠に捕らえられてしまったイメージ
1
ID:QTGedWae(1/3)
If Ito hadn't brought up the idea of setting up points for winning against CNT players, maybe it would have been Ito?
It feels like she was caught by the trap she set herself

0270 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 12:49:18.41
中国ポイントは黄金世代3人だけ獲得出来たんだからめでたしめでたしだろ
これぞ黄金のキズナだよ

早田
平野
田中
ID:gapTJix2
Only 3 members of the golden generation were able to get China points, so it's all happy ending
This is the golden bond

Hayata
Hirano
Tanaka

0271 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 13:00:24.88
黄金世代で？？？
って思ったが田中かよｗｗｗ
ID:OXHaDSrq(1/3)
The golden generation? ? ?
Although I think so, but Tanaka lol

0274 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/03(火) 13:04:15.55
>>268
中国ポイントだけじゃないだろ。
Ｔリーグの参加にしろ、団体拒否にしろ、やることなすこと裏目裏目。
もう、流れは完全に美和だったんだよ。
1
ID:OXHaDSrq(2/3)
It's not just the China points.
Whether it's participating in the T.League or rejecting the WT, everything she did backfired.
The flow was completely in Miwa's favor.

0314 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 08:17:53.75
平野と張本の祝賀会をそれぞれ開くことによって、早田には触れてないことを際立たせる平野鬼パイセン、まさに京都人みたいなムーブどすなぁ
1
ID:irHywH0l(1/4)
By holding a celebration for Hirano and Harimoto, Hirano Oni-paisen [senpai with a less serious tone] made clear she didn't mention Hayata. That's a move that's just like a Kyoto person

0316 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 09:24:58.52
早田のお祖父さんインタビューなんか受けなきゃよかったのにな
どうせ聞きたいのはあの発言のことなんだから
ID:vqKSmiYZ
I wish Hayata's grandfather had never been interviewed. I think that's what they wanted to hear about anyway.

0317 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 09:37:06.68
早田のスレ燃え尽きたな
ID:/woT8Dj/(1/2)
Hayata's thread is burning out

0319 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 09:48:47.92
週刊文春が来たのか…
ここは丁寧に対応しないとのちのちめんどくさいことになるから早田の祖父ちゃん乙やな
ID:n6UlUceo
Shukan Bunshun has come...
If they don't handle this carefully, it will become a hassle later on, so good job, Hayata's grandfather

0322 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 11:15:56.33
中国人の張本兄貴ファンははりひなはもう組むことないでしょうとか言ってるけどそうなの？
1
ID:fw0C19Vw
Chinese fans of Harimoto brother-san are saying that Hari-Hina will never team up again, but is that true?

0325 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 11:40:59.86
張本兄はミックスには向いてないと思うからハリひなはもういいやろ
早田も体質的にも年齢的にもシングルス一本で行く方が成果も出易いと違うかな
早田美和は試す可能性はあるが同じ所属同士のペアの方が練習と実践(Tリーグ)がやり易いので
長?ｱ美和、木原美和を国際大会でも積極的に使って行きそうではある(勿論、木原長?ｱも)
ID:jyCXGmgF(1/4)
I don't think Harimoto brother-san is suited to XD, so Hari-Hina is fine
Given Hayata-san's physique and age, she'd be more likely to achieve results if she just went for singles
There's a chance they'll try Hayata/Miwa, but it's easier to practice and do it (T.League) with a pair from the same affiliation
They'll probably actively use Nagasaki/Miwa and Kihara/Miwa in international competitions (and Kihara/Nagasaki, of course)

0326 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 11:42:18.84
早田の祖父(元警察署長)はパリに応援に行ったらしいな 応援の姿は親子(祖父、母)だった
2
ID2aK8+d7(1/4)
Apparently Hayata's grandfather (a former police chief) went to Paris to support the team. The father and daughter (grandfather and mother) were seen supporting the team.

0330 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 12:03:12.26
>>326
早田の話だと父もパリに行っていたらしいけど
母と並んで見てたのは祖父で父は一緒に見てなかったのか？
ID:kNpMpU0x(1/3)
According to Hayata, her father also went to Paris, but was it her grandfather who was watching alongside her mother, and was her father not there?

0343 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 13:33:39.19
張兄は早田の会見発言より前に
早田と今回で最後という趣旨の投稿をしている
ID:1pYLCh50(1/4)
Before Hayata's press conference remarks, Harimoto brother posted a message to the effect that this would be his last time with Hayata.

0345 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 13:40:47.85
はりひなはペアとしての相性はよかったと思うけどね
組んでまもなく樊丁寧ペアを圧倒する感じで勝ったときは衝撃だったな
経験も積んで二人での戦術も熟成されてきたところなのに解消してしまうのは惜しい気がするけど
早田が会見で二人の間のコミュニケーション不足を敗因の一つに上げていて
どうも二人の間になんらかの齟齬があった感じだ
終盤はなんとなくそんな雰囲気が漂っていたのもたしか
1
ID:1pYLCh50(2/4)
I think Hari-Hina were a good pair
It was a shock when they won by overwhelming the Fan-DN pair shortly after they teamed up
It's a shame that they broke up when they had gained experience and their tactics had matured
At the press conference, Hayata cited a lack of communication between the two as one of the reasons for their defeat
It seems like there was some kind of discord between them
I kept feeling there was a similar atmosphere towards the end

0349 名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!! 2024/09/04(水) 14:01:06.93
張本兄貴の五輪後のインスタを見るとミックスには触れてるが早田のはの字も書いてない
早田の方は木原のことはめっちゃ語るのにミックスや張本兄貴のことはスルー

これを見てもう溝は深いのか…？とは思った
しばらく忘れたいのかもしれないが
ID:e2jKw1fI(2/2)
If you look at Harimoto-aniki's Instagram after the Olympics, he mentioned XD but didn't mention Hayata at all
Hayata talks a lot about Kihara but ignores XD and Harimoto-aniki

Seeing this, I wonder if the rift is already deep...?
Maybe they want to forget it for now

 

[zeio]

Actually, it seems JTTA listed the names in the order stated in the selection criteria:

(1) Selection method for men's and women's singles representative players (maximum number of entries: 5 men and 5 women)
① Men's and women's Japanese representative players for the Paris 2024 Olympics (HAYATA, HIRANO, M. HARIMOTO)
② The highest ranked Japanese player in the singles world ranking for the week including 14 days before the final entry date for the Asian Championships (HAYATA AGAIN)
③ Winner of the Japanese representative selection tournament for the Asian Championships (hereinafter referred to as the selection tournament) (ODO)
④ If the players selected from ① to ③ above overlap and do not reach the maximum number of entries, the players will be selected in the following order.
a) The winner of the singles general division of the 2024 All Japan Table Tennis Championships
b) The top ranked Japanese players in the singles world ranking for the week including 14 days before the final entry date for the Asian Championships, excluding ② in (1) above (THERE IS AN OVERLAP as HAYATA is a member of the Paris Olympic Team, the Highest Ranked Japanese Player, and All Japan Champion, so ITO FALLS HERE. Ito qualified not under ② but under ④ b)

So, it really should be Hayata, Hirano, M. Harimoto, Odo, Ito in that order.

The same thing happened in how the Men's team was listed:
T. Harimoto, Togami, Shinozuka, Kenji Matsudaira, M. Yoshimura.
Likewise, M. Yoshimura qualified under ④ b) since there is an overlap with T. Harimoto being a member of the Paris Olympic Team, the Highest Ranked Japanese Player, and All Japan Champion

What we are concerned here is not merely the order in which they were listed, but the intention behind wording it that way. Why so convoluted? The selection criteria were first confirmed on 2024/1/15, exactly a week before Zennihon Takkyu 2024. At that point, Hayata was 1195 pts ahead of Ito, and Ito's odd of becoming the highest-ranked JNT player by the deadline was very low, but it didn't really matter as ② was redundant and ④ロ） would've sufficed. In the selection criteria for WTTC 2021 that was first confirmed on 2021/6/5, despite the potential of overlapping players for (3), it was worded without accounting for that situation.

It's really weird to see the participating players listed by WR but then the entries in a different order that plays down WR. With Odo taking on 4 events, 2 of which decided by Development Headquarters, it makes people wonder if there really is discord between JTTA and Ito, Ito and Hayata, as well as Harimoto1 and Hayata.

https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz...21/07/20111313/20210719_selectionCriteria.pdf

１．男女シングルス代表５名の選出方法
(1)2021年（第24週）6月15日発表の WR20位以内の日本人最上位選手：(1名)
(2)2021年（第24週）6月15日発表の WR100位以内の日本人最上位選手：(1名)※（１）の WR20位以内の日本人最上位選手を
除く
(3) 第32回オリンピック競技大会(2020/東京)にて種目に関わらずメダル獲得した選手
(4)国内選考会の上位から出場枠に達するまで

 

[zeio]

【パリ五輪】2つのメダル獲得を笑顔で報告　北九州市出身の卓球・早田ひな選手「ロス五輪で金を取るために何をしていくか」福岡
https://news.ntv.co.jp/n/fbs/category/sports/fs2e8ec1731dbd42df92f90a6a5807671b

【中継】パリ五輪初出場で2つのメダル！卓球の早田ひな選手が「ひなポーズ」で福岡県庁に到着
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeWrJJ0pZ-I

卓球女子日本代表の早田ひな選手が福岡県庁でメダル報告
https://kbc.co.jp/news/article.php?id=13575965&ymd=2024-09-09
https://youtu.be/8kisJXoBmYM

パリ五輪で銀と銅のメダル 卓球 早田ひな選手が県庁を訪問
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/lnews/kitakyushu/20240909/5020016460.html

 

[zeio]

Harimoto vows transforming his playing style, stressing how it all comes down to attacking, while reflecting how he was pinned to the BH by FZD.

張本智和、２８年ロス五輪で「絶対メダル」　攻撃型へ変身「攻めてなんぼ『張本、攻めてる』という状況を増やす」
https://hochi.news/articles/20240827-OHT1T51155.html?page=1

　日本卓球協会は２７日、東京都内で関係者らを招いてパリ五輪の報告会を行った。男子団体４位、男子単８強のエース・張本智和（２１）＝智和企画＝は２８年ロサンゼルス、３２年ブリスベン五輪の２大会で「絶対にメダル」と目標を掲げた。実現のために、気付いたことをメモすることを始め、プレーも攻撃的なスタイルに進化する。出場３種目でメダルに届かなかったパリ大会の雪辱へ、３１日のＴリーグ初戦でリスタートを切る。

　雪辱へ向けた歩みはすでに始まっていた。３種目でメダルに届かなかったパリ大会から１３日に帰国し、１７日に練習を再開した張本智は「次の２大会で絶対にシングルスのメダルを取りたい。３０歳までの９年間が勝負」と覚悟を口にした。２８年ロサンゼルス、３２年ブリスベン五輪で、表彰台に上がることを自らに課した。

　行動を変えた。メモを取り課題を整理する。パリ五輪シングルス準々決勝後、「７―７の１球」と記した。金メダルの樊振東（はん・しんとう、中国）を３―２で追い詰めたが、３―３の最終ゲーム７―７からバック側を突かれ、７―１１で力尽きた。メモを取るタイプではなかったが、その日のうちにペンを走らせた。「ミスした球にフォーカスするのでなく、課題を整理した。（帰国後）メモを見ながら、課題が一つひとつできるようになっている」

　もう一つの進化はプレースタイルだ。頭から消えないのは、団体準決勝のスウェーデン戦。第５試合で２―０から逆転負けした。パリ前までは、成績の振れ幅をなくすために「安定感」を重点的に磨いてきたが、試合を決める術（すべ）の重要性を感じた。「守りはできる。やはり攻めてなんぼだった。失敗はいいので『張本、攻めてる』という状況を増やしていく」と攻撃的な卓球にシフトする。「この悪い記憶をいいもの、悪いものにするかは今後の自分次第」と言い切った。

　３１日に琉球の一員で臨む金沢とのＴリーグ初戦で再出発を切る。国際大会は９月のＷＴＴチャンピオンズ・マカオ大会から出場し、１０月のアジア選手権ではタイトルを目指す。「『張本は強い』と意識付けたい。この４年はスタイル、戦術を増やし、後悔なく努力したい」と張本。エースは真の強さを突き詰めていく。（宮下　京香）

張本智和「ピークの３０歳までに絶対にメダルを」　パリ五輪終え決意新た「次に向けて頑張る期間」
https://origin.daily.co.jp/general/2024/08/27/0018053790.shtml

 

[5545]

Hayata has achieved way more, it isn't just medal, but it is also image (something zeio and his pals are trying to destroy)

Ito is limited and zeio thinks all japanese people must retire when they are 24.
so anything in that line is just silly.

I don't just look at H2H with Chinese players, but as a whole.
Ito had early day glory, Hayata's time has really just started imo.

I had met both of them (including Hirano) 8 years ago, and I always thought Hirano would last longer, but Hayata was the more complete player as she grew taller. I have always my doubts on early success wonders, since it is just too rare - not even Chinese players can live up to it, and the only person ever was Deng Yaping, who retired at 24.... what is the odds, lol. Maybe zeio was calling for her retirement too

Sorry what?

Even disregarding win rate against CNT, which does mean a lot, Ito has a world cup medal, four olympic ones including gold, broke more records at youngest ages, and was ranked the highest in WR during her career than Hayata ever was or anyone else. Some of these things Hayata may never achieve in her life, and I'm sure all those equites a bronze medal at World Championships and silver at Asian Games. They have both won Nationals 3 times.

Also, looking at it less stastically, if you study the matches, you'll see that Hayata needed to beat one CNT player, which happened to be the weakest one that almost every japanese player has beaten (WYD) to get these two major achievements. As someone else as pointed out, Ito was just unluckly lots of times in the draw.

She has definitely not achieved more than Ito at the present moment however you look at it.

 

[zeio]

Hayata is in the same boat as CM when it comes to recognition.

CM: Back-to-back gold.
Hayata: This bronze is more valuable than gold.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/paris-olympic-games-2024.34358/post-470935

As I noted, this Olympics are more difficult, but the general public never sees it that way. Their focus now is whether Hayata can at least equal Ito's results at Tokyo 2020 - gold in XD, bronze in WS and silver in WT. Hayata has already failed.

Hayata has not demonstrated the ability to get past multiple CNT players (let alone the top 3), which Hirano and Ito have, albeit in lower tiers of competitions. She needs to achieve something that is unique/exclusive to her. Getting past WYD ONLY, albeit twice, is sadly not enough as Mizutani and Harimoto pointed out. No matter how many silver or bronze medals she gets, if she doesn't get past one, two or all of the top 3 CNT players on her way, she will be labeled as the one who is always catching up, just like how TV Tokyo depicts her in the promos to this day.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-be-revamped-for-paris-2024.24977/post-473809

--While Japan's good performance was noticeable, China's strength and tenacity in the "clutch" moments were astonishing. What is the difference between Japan and China that determined the outcome?

Murakami: The most important point is defensive strength. CNT players have the defensive strength to not let the ball slip past them even if under attack. And it is because of their defensive strength that they do not hit difficult balls in situations where the score is 9-9 or 10-10. Even if the opponent takes the initiative, they patiently return the ball. JNT players go for the win as soon as the opponent's return is even the slightest bit weak. That is the big difference.

...

--If you had to pick one player as the MVP of the team matches, which one would it be?

Murakami: It would be Hirano, who played the most matches in doubles and singles. She was really good in this tournament, and she played her role well according to the order. Hirano and Hayata are now 24 years old, but in today's sports world, with advances in scientific training and nutritional management, even in their late 20s, they will not fall from their physical peak. If we can just raise our motivation, I think we can still close the gap with China.

 

[zeio]

Hirano is still ranked first by Tieba users in WS. And when it comes to Olympics, Ito is untouchable.

平野早田三大赛单打成绩好像都比伊藤好？ (It seems Hirano's and Hayata's singles results in the 3 majors are better than Ito's?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9166867972

早田希娜和伊藤美诚哪个成就高 (Who has higher achievements, Hayata Hinra or Ito Mima?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9116137788
打机画荻教子 你加个限定词“单打”比较好，毕竟迷马有奥运史上首块混双金牌 (It would be better to add the qualifier "singles". After all, Mima won the first XD gold medal in Olympic history)
IP属地:湖北来自Android客户端3楼2024-08-04 10:03回复

还我大张哥 伊藤带给中国队的威胁是早田比不了的，这点已经胜过奖牌了 (The threat that Ito brings to the CNT is incomparable to that of Hayata. This alone is more important than medals)
IP属地:安徽来自Android客户端13楼2024-08-05 11:07回复

漆水河里捉鱼 单打的话平野美宇，世界杯亚锦赛，世锦铜，这次赛点没把握住，不然打受伤早田有机会拿铜的，可惜了 (Hirano Miu in singles, World Cup holder and ATTC title, and WTTC bronze. This time she didn't seize the match point, otherwise against an injured Hayata, she would have had a chance to win bronze. A pity)
IP属地:安徽来自Android客户端14楼2024-08-05 20:07回复

Nelly_tt 中国队没怎么怕过早田，但是怕过伊藤 (The CNT has hardly been afraid of Hayata, but had been afraid of Ito)
IP属地:浙江来自iPhone客户端23楼2024-08-13 16:08回复

 

[driversbeat]

Sorry what?

Even disregarding win rate against CNT, which does mean a lot, Ito has a world cup medal, four olympic ones including gold, broke more records at youngest ages, and was ranked the highest in WR during her career than Hayata ever was or anyone else. Some of these things Hayata may never achieve in her life, and I'm sure all those equites a bronze medal at World Championships and silver at Asian Games. They have both won Nationals 3 times.

Also, looking at it less stastically, if you study the matches, you'll see that Hayata needed to beat one CNT player, which happened to be the weakest one that almost every japanese player has beaten (WYD) to get these two major achievements. As someone else as pointed out, Ito was just unluckly lots of times in the draw.

She has definitely not achieved more than Ito at the present moment however you look at it.

Ito's best chance to medal at WTTC was in 2021 when she was the 3rd seed and WYD was 7th, but that match wasn't even close to competitive. That was right after her triple medal feat at the Olympics too and WYD was barely recognized as a core team member, making it to singles only because of the absence of LSW, ZYL, and DN.

Ito has also played a total of 5 individual WTTCs while Hayata managed to medal on her second try. The only time Ito really had a bad draw was in 2019 when she drew SYS in round 3 and WMY in the quarters, but she completely underestimated SYS and was outplayed on that occasion.

 

[zeio]

早田希娜是什么水平？ (What is Hayata Hina's level?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9125420727
E387352134 感觉这个球员很厉害，双打竟然带着张本美和把陈梦逼的这么紧，早田希娜可谓居首功。
她双打绝对是世界顶级水平，单打没看到，她单打是什么水平？ (I feel this player is very good. In doubles, she even put Chen Meng under pressure with Harimoto Miwa. Hayata Hina deserves the most credit.
Her doubles are definitely at the world's top level. I didn't see her singles. What is her singles level?)
IP属地:上海来自iPhone客户端1楼2024-08-11 00:33回复

日月轮转: 楼主说反了，双打是美和带她！她和张本智和一样属于单打强双打弱。 (The OP got it wrong. It was Miwa who led her in doubles! Like Harimoto Tomokazu, she is strong in singles but weak in doubles.)
2024-8-15 10:51回复

Hcy147X 实力和成绩都是当下外协第一 (No. 1 among foreign associations in terms of strength and results)
IP属地:上海4楼2024-08-11 00:47收起回复
hkhl花开花落: 实力是 成绩的话可能还是伊藤 (Yes for strength, but in terms of results, then Ito is probably better)
2024-8-11 12:40回复
唐宋元明清～: 平野有单打世界冠军，伊藤更不用说，早田在他俩之下 (Hirano has a singles world title, not to mention Ito, Hayata is below them both)
2024-8-12 14:55回复
SOLORED: 回复 hkhl花开花落 :按成绩应该平野美宇 (In terms of results, it should be Hirano Miu)
2024-8-12 15:25回复

雎鸠No.1 我怎么感觉是张本美和带着她，双打时候张本美和发挥更好，早田各种凹造型的蜜汁正手我都不知道在打什么 (Why do I feel like it was Harimoto Miwa who was leading her? Harimoto Miwa performed better in doubles, and I don't know what Hayata's various mysterious FHs were doing)
IP属地:广西来自iPhone客户端18楼2024-08-12 13:15收起回复

贴吧用户_0aEQ31W 她胜在体型，有破坏力，所以打外协能压制。但是我们已经女乒男子化所以基本防的住，结果就是基本稳压。其实三人中最好打她的是鳗鱼，体型比她好。然后双打，这次明显是美和带她，她只能说中规中矩，美和比她灵性变球路才容易得分。 (She is better in size and destructive power, so she can suppress the foreign players. But we have masculinized our women's table tennis, so we can basically defend against them, and the result is basically comprehensive containment. In fact, the best player to beat her among the three is Eel [Manyu], who has a better size than her. Then in doubles, it was obviously Miwa who led her this time. She can only be said to be average. Miwa was more intelligent than her in changing the shot path, so it was easier to score.)
IP属地:日本来自iPhone客户端21楼2024-08-12 14:40收起回复

小布长大了 目前日乒一姐吧，可是我觉得威胁性远不如大头，论框架论实力哪怕论球商都不低，但是女乒目前就不虚这种纯实力的，应为女乒的整体实力摆在那里要纯实力超越这一代女乒是不可能的了，女乒怕的是变像一头迷马这种变化多球商高的才有机会对女乒产生影响，当然迷马已经被研究透了威胁也大不如前。再举个例子，男乒小莫，就是典型硬实力不行但是球商特高变化极多的打法，对男乒短暂性威胁就很大，无论是32强的No.1还是东哥打起来都吃力，应为各种反手敲侧切还有冷不丁的超高水平拉球，让人防不胜防，但小莫没有那种前三板很突出或者多板对拉很强势的能力，吃的就是手感和变化，只要研究透了就会和迷马 一样威胁小很多，而张本这种相对硬实力的长期威胁就大，应为男乒一旦东哥走了真没人能稳压张本了，综合实力张本确实强，就是心理素质差了点 (She is currently the number one player of the JNT, but I think she is not as threatening as Big Head [TL's note: Ito's nickname in China]. In terms of framework, strength, and even table tennis quotient, she is not low, but the women's table tennis does not fear this kind of sheer strength at present, because the overall strength of the women's table tennis is out there. It is impossible to surpass this generation of women's table tennis in sheer strength. What the women's table tennis is afraid of is someone like Mima, who has a ton of variations and a high table tennis quotient, that has a chance of causing impact on the women's table tennis. Of course, Mima has been thoroughly studied and the threat is far less than before. To give another example, Xiao Mo [Moregard] of the men's side is a typical player with poor raw strength but extremely high table tennis quotient and a lot of variations in his playing style. He poses a great short-term threat to the men's team. Both the R32 No.1 [WCQ's nickname] and Dong Ge [Brother Dong] had a hard time playing against him because of his various BH hits, chopblocks and sudden super-high-level loops, which were difficult to defend against. However, Xiao Mo lacks outstanding 3rd balls or rallying ability. He relies on touch and variations. As long as he is studied thoroughly, he will become much less threatening like Mima. Harimoto, who is relatively higher in raw strength, poses a great long-term threat, because once Dong Ge leaves the men's team, no one can suppress him. Harimoto is indeed strong in overall strength, but his psychological quality is a bit poor)
IP属地:广东来自iPhone客户端34楼2024-08-12 18:04收起回复
E387352134: 你说的纯实力就是陈梦的那种厚度感吧？早田希娜确实跟陈梦有点像，感觉除了陈梦，早田希娜可能不虚其他人。积分和交手记录不能说明什么，感觉早田希娜很可能会爆发，看她奥运比赛后发言就说了她要冲击奥冠，而且她似乎确实有这种潜质。 (The raw strength you mentioned is the same as CM, right? Hayata Hina is indeed a bit like CM. I feel that except for CM, Hayata Hina may not be inferior to others. Points and H2H records cannot explain anything. I feel that Hayata Hina is likely to explode. She said in her speech after the Olympic Games that she wanted to challenge the Olympic title, and she does seem to have this potential.)
2024-8-12 18:44回复
贴吧用户_G3X41bD293: 回复 E387352134 :目前为止只有陈梦王艺迪输她，陈幸同不知道有没交手过，王艺迪输了德班市了亚运 (So far, only CM and WYD have lost to her. I don't know if CXT has ever played against her. WYD lost in Durban and in the Asian Games)
2024-8-12 18:59回复
贴吧用户_G3X41bD293: 回复 E387352134 :交手记录不算什么，那要看什么呢？看空气嚒？ (H2H doesn't matter, so what should we look at? Air?)
2024-8-12 19:00回复
小布长大了: 回复 小布长大了 :女乒大梦莎莎和鳗鱼这三巨头一个都过不了，她不是那种有特别优势的能力只是综合性比较好，没什么特别能拿出手的，也不可能成长为大梦这种厚实的选手，更没有莎莎的男子凶狠打法，只能无限，顶多接近鳗鱼 (The three of women's table tennis, Da Meng, Shasha and Eel, she can't beat any of them. She is not the type with an ability of specific advantage, but is merely better at comprehensiveness. She has nothing special to show for it, and it is impossible for her to grow into a solid player like Da Meng. She doesn't have Shasha's fierce men's game. She can only be infinitely close to Eel, at most.)
2024-8-12 19:05回复

草莓希娜 平野球风克制陈梦，所以很多人不希望平野打赢申 (Hirano's playing style counters CM, so many people didn't want Hirano to win against Shin)
IP属地:天津来自Android客户端38楼2024-08-12 18:43回复

刑天之魂 论实力外协第一人，论成绩不如平野美宇和伊藤美诚 (In terms of strength, she is the No. 1 foreign player, but in terms of results, she is not as good as Hirano Miu and Ito Mima)
IP属地:江苏来自Android客户端39楼2024-08-12 18:46回复

Tommy 可惜双打决胜局最后时刻犯蠢 (Unfortunately, her dumbness struck at the last moment of the doubles final game)
IP属地:四川来自Android客户端62楼2024-08-13 22:01回复[/size]