I already illustrated evidences and you Chinese of course do not take it seriously. You folks are notorious in making up facts as seen even in posts like this. Arguing nonsense, making up facts , and keep saying until your opponent gives up are tactics. You expect us to believe your propaganda?
You guys use patriotism to brainwash your people. While we just laugh at it because it is none of our business we realize we can't never beat you guys on TT as we are not THAT patriotic to let government manipulate us. I remmber the day ex US president Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." It was considered one of the best saying at the time. Well, such saying doesn't apply now as only a handful of people will listen to. However, in China similar slogans are plenty! All over the places, in factories, schools, facilities... No wonder Xi can change China constitution because you guys are so easily manipulated by authority and possibly from people like you.
I traveled to China many times. Witnessing how a few folks committed suicide at Foxconn just to get death compensation to help their families awaken my consciousness. Thus it is no surprise people VOLUNTARILY gave their children to government controlled sport facilities to train out of their children's will. Voluntary my behind!
I did talk about patriotism as a main card to play in China sport. The West can't do the same as we do not have such a propaganda machine to manipulate people. It is so hard to change amendment that even with many deaths out there caused by guns we still can't change it. Not like your Xi who after a few years in power can flip flop your constitutions like a dealer with a stack of cards. How can you expect us to believe you guys play fair game to your own people, in this case, particularly children? You guys contradict yourself one after another, invent facts, lie, do all kind of unbelievable things to human beings and still claim innocent! Tienanmen event exists or not? You tell me. If you said yes, then I will consider your arguments.
- May I kindly point out that your sources of information seem pretty one-sided, too?
- There is something to be said for a "greater good", and I agree that full blown, dictatorial communism isn't the solution but extreme individualism is showing its limits, too. I like Jawien's example of Polish climbers, and the fact that aiming for collective glory may go a longer way in terms of motivation than money and purely self-centred interests.
- Does that qualify as brainwashing? I want to make clear that I am not an advocate of all things Chinese. I pulled out a conversation about this with RidTheKid, in a different thread (sorry to bring this back here - more of an appropriate setting) but I don't quite think China "keep to themselves" on the international scene, as he suggested (there are other ways than open war) and their reasons for promoting TT certainly have more to it than just wanting to be good at it.
I am with him, though, in saying that the "free" media in the self-proclaimed free world isn't all it claims to be, and it is naive to think other nations invest and participate in competitive sports without any expectations, in terms of results and associated prestige. That TT isn't high on their list is irrelevant.
- China is changing fast, has been changing fast, lest we forget. I don't pretend to be an expert but it's fair to say some of the stuff that has been said here feels pretty outdated, not to use any other words.
- The conversation so far has mainly boiled down to determining what level of sacrifices is acceptable, in order to succeed. Good luck with that one, as it is not only a cultural but also a deeply personal thing.
- The other point, of course, is to which extent others (be it family, country, etc) should have an influence on the kids' choices and future as an individual. That's even a bigger one, and I wouldn't answer other than to point out that :
A. I would be surprised if all Chinese TT players had been forced into playing.
B. Consider in which proportions one is ever free of these things (considering the US: no expectations from your parents? From the social structures in general? Is social mobility really as good as it's advertised to be?)
C. I'd go even further and suggest that the youngsters on rainneverever's (what a find!) picture look pretty healthy to me. That's for another debate, but right now I could use a bit more "collective" spirit and less delusions about how me, myself and I are all so fantastic. Not exactly the main topic I realise, but not that far off either, I would say.
Again, let's not abuse of stereotypes either - Chinese players also do have their own interests at heart and certainly value their individual achievements.
So... Yeah. It wouldn't be any easier to separate European TT from politics. I guess it'll make sense to all train together when and if (!) we all share strong enough of a common identity.
Meanwhile I still think the current system is at the same time best and unavoidable, given the socio-economic environment, and should evolve towards bigger international teams and centres (think Real Madrid, TT style). Perhaps with more investments from local authorities - the European way, and scouting earlier in the players' careers. I also think it's the most promising in terms of concentrating the elite, resources and competitive spirit between a select few centres.
That's only if we think in terms of medals of course, but this post is long enough as it is.
