Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[ttmonster]

Yes , I have hit many a times on the table next to her ... she was very shy then used to avoid eye contact with most people because she was already a celebrity back then .... she might remember me by face but not by name , same with Mike , in fact I once played doubles with Mike at a saturday handicap doubles league in the club , not sure if he remembers , ... Ariel and Mike know each other for a long time , they used to go to the same coaches in the club I used to play and get coaching at .... looks like she has opened up quite a bit since she flew the nest

Okay guys, this is cooler than cool. I was playing at SPiN today and Mike peeked out of the private room with a big smile. The private room has an exit door right next to the table I was at. Anyway, he told me what he was doing. He was rehearsing something he called a table tennis concerto with Ariel Hsing. It is something they performed in China before. Anyway, I asked if he would introduce me since I know they have been friends for a while.

I have to say, she was all dressed up and she looked pretty darn hot. I always thought she was kind of pretty even dressed for a table tennis match. But dressed up like she was, she looked totally slamming.

ttmonster may know her since I think she is from San Jose. But it was cool to meet her.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Shuki]

You just don't know own your game. It is not a good thing to be an advanced players and not understand how you win or lose points. People in your club tend to know. Opponents who beat you tend to know where they get their points from. If you don't know, then you can play into their hands unwittingly.

100% agree, I ask almost all of my opponents that I play frequently what my playing style is. The answers are always different. Maybe I play to whatever weakness I find. Maybe I just play the style of the opponent usually? But theres one thing that's stuck out.

From my primary club I can ask who's style I play most like. And the answer always seems to just be a random name from the list of players that frequent the club. Almost as if I picked up strokes from each player and mixed them all together. I don't know my style period.

Watching various videos of myself, win or lose, it's different. And whatever style I use, sticks to that opponent that I used it on. So if I play a backhand game against someone, I feel stuck on a backhand game against them.

 

[ttmonster]

I could not resist this, not banter but seemed eerily familiar ...

100% agree, I ask almost all of my opponents that I play frequently what my playing style is. The answers are always different. Maybe I play to whatever weakness I find. Maybe I just play the style of the opponent usually? But theres one thing that's stuck out.

From my primary club I can ask who's style I play most like. And the answer always seems to just be a random name from the list of players that frequent the club. Almost as if I picked up strokes from each player and mixed them all together. I don't know my style period.

Watching various videos of myself, win or lose, it's different. And whatever style I use, sticks to that opponent that I used it on. So if I play a backhand game against someone, I feel stuck on a backhand game against them.

 

[Shuki]

@carl,

again mega jealous of the crowd you've come to be close with! ariel is my favorite female player! One of my highlights in my meetings with table tennis players comes from meeting you carl. And that picture with mike landers, me, and you.

 

[Shuki]

I could not resist this, not banter but seemed eerily familiar ...

I see no photo

 

[ttmonster]

Now you should see ...

I see no photo

 

[Shuki]

Now you should see ...

Good quote. The salmon goes against the flow. Getting to higher levels we must do the same, should we not? Pick a style and stick to it sounds better for improvement than change whenever problems arise.

Regardless of my argumentative talk, perhaps I should just be water. No worries, let the ends justify the means. I'll get where I get, talking about it won't change that.



edit: just looked up the quote, it's not go with the flow haha. stupidity is now felt by me ^.^

 

[ttmonster]

.... and surprisingly now you are sounding more like Yoda than Bruce Lee ... or not

stupidity is now felt by me ^.^

 

[Archosaurus]

I think I've always had a clear idea of how I generally want to play 5, 10, 15 years from now, but naturally as I get better and understand the game more, that idea goes more in-line with reality.

I might develop a better two wing looping game and pivot less, or be forced to defend more when I play people who have a seriously solid attack, but I don't think I'm ever gonna stop gaining points the way I gain points now, because my head's just wired that way. I think people generally have some strengths or talents, which if neutered, will persist and work more or less.

 

[DTopSpirit]

... and thanks to you for sharing all that ... even though sometimes they are bitter pills to swalllow , I have learnt a lot from what you have posted over time ... no questions ...

<snip>
however, its also true , its not easy to get good table tennis players to spill their beans , the culture might be a little different in the east coast , but in bay area I have seldom seen people are forthcoming .. may be I got the wrong crowd , but since here there is a ridiculous amount of money in coaching most things are hush hush , I just keep hearing rumors that 2400+ people have their secret hideout to practice etc ....
<snip>

This little snippet caught my attention...

As one of the top level players in my area, with several players that are over the equivalent of 2000 USATT, I can confirm that in our case the top players do tend to congregate together in their own private hangouts, so as to avoid constant requests from weaker players for "just a quick game...". Most of the guys are quite good about hitting with low level players in general, but sometimes the top guys would actually like to play and train with each other for a while, and get some work of our own done. So we arrange to go to a specific club instead of the main centre in the area.

Another interesting point is that where I am from it is actually quite easy to get the top guys to spill the beans, all of my colleagues are willing to discuss technique and tactics with lower level guys. But what I've seen consistently over my 30 or so years in the sport is that very, very few of these lower level players actually listen to what the top guys say and then even fewer actually go out and try to implement the advice for the next few months.

In general, lower level players talking to high level players seem to fall into a few categories:

1) They want to explain to the the top guys their excuses for not doing things properly, as if the top guy can give them permission to keep doing it incorrectly.
2) They want to argue that their way is better than the top guys suggestions.
3) They want to learn to do things that are way beyond their capability.

and one that I get a lot as a long pips player;
4) They want to get tips on how to play better with their long pips, but insist on trying to do things with their long pips that the pips are not designed to do well, and then want to inform me on a regular basis that they are still struggling with their long pips. Go figure! </snip></snip>

 

[Archosaurus]

That's a pretty interesting point of view, Greg.

How much do you think lower level players would actually benefit if they just listened to what is being said? Where do you think the miscommunication is: lower level players not understanding what much higher level players have to say, or them just not wanting to change their ways?

 

[Der_Echte]

Monster, currently in USA, there are only a handful of TT centers making ridiculous money. You are in the vicinity of a few of them. USA has the potential to have many of thee clubs if we could get even 5% of USA schools to have a TT program, even if it was a social club. Even at some big-time clubs, many, many high level coaches who are not the owners or a Principle Member of the company running the club do not get paid enough but to barely live in the USA city.

I know that $50 an hour or higher is a lot of money, especially when there are a lot of people paying for lessons, but a coach who isn't an owner or Principle in the concern doesn't get nearly that much of the money... and it is damned difficult to have enough players with that same coach to make it a living. A coach who gets paid half of that would have to work 6 days a week for 8 working hours to make enough to keep head above water in a lot of places and there is no way many coaches even in the hugest of clubs get that kind of student inflow.

There is a potential for it down the road is certainly there when we get more children into the sport at school AND it trickles into MOM wanting to improve Junior's performance at school... but that is a growing thing that will need a lot of work from kids and parents to sell the school on the ideas.

 

[Der_Echte]

That's a pretty interesting point of view, Greg.

How much do you think lower level players would actually benefit if they just listened to what is being said? Where do you think the miscommunication is: lower level players not understanding what much higher level players have to say, or them just not wanting to change their ways?

Archo,

What Greg said in his vid series making fun of TT situations is both hilarious and true. Greg had for YEARS and YEARS ran one of the highest volume TT boards and seen what he describes over and over on the forums, then also in TT clubs. You would not believe even 1 percent of the wild stuff Greg had to put up with even in the last 3 yrs he ran that board... and that was when the people posting there mellowed out by a 10,000x factor.

As high speed as I portray myself, I can be one heck of a knucklehead hard headed B*stard as well. Time and Time again, I get advice on why I lost points or a match and I was so pissed off about the ball bounce messing up my timing (true, it did, but it wasn't the core problem that the high level player was nicely trying to inform me about), but I was so dead set upset I wasn't receptive to any kind of sound advice in the moment immediately after the loss that tourney.

 

[Archosaurus]

Archo,

What Greg said in his vid series making fun of TT situations is both hilarious and true. Greg had for YEARS and YEARS ran one of the highest volume TT boards and seen what he describes over and over on the forums, then also in TT clubs. You would not believe even 1 percent of the wild stuff Greg had to put up with even in the last 3 yrs he ran that board... and that was when the people posting there mellowed out by a 10,000x factor.

As high speed as I portray myself, I can be one heck of a knucklehead hard headed B*stard as well. Time and Time again, I get advice on why I lost points or a match and I was so pissed off about the ball bounce messing up my timing (true, it did, but it wasn't the core problem that the high level player was nicely trying to inform me about), but I was so dead set upset I wasn't receptive to any kind of sound advice in the moment immediately after the loss that tourney.

I can imagine all the sub-1000 people giving Greg advice on his game because his technique is clearly whack and junk rubbers are for losers, while they themselves insist on arguing with 2200-some players on why they lost to the old man in the last tourney.

 

[DTopSpirit]

That's a pretty interesting point of view, Greg.

How much do you think lower level players would actually benefit if they just listened to what is being said? Where do you think the miscommunication is: lower level players not understanding what much higher level players have to say, or them just not wanting to change their ways?

If they listened, I guess that would be a start, perhaps something might get absorbed and be of benefit. But in general, listening without going out and applying what you heard is fairly worthless as far as table tennis is concerned. Same holds true for what people read on Internet table tennis forums.

Simple question to all: How many bits of advice that you read or heard about table tennis did you actually go out and apply for three months?

I would hazard an uninformed guess that lower level players do not want to change their ways. Change is often painful, and in this context of getting advice it means that the lower level player must acknowledge that he has been doing it wrong up until now, and he must then work hard to correct his mistake. That can be pretty hard on the ego to admit you've been wasting your time doing something wrong all along, and for many people it is probably easier to shrug off such advice in order to maintain their self-image.

I've played over 30 years, and in the last couple of years I have learnt:
1) I had been hitting my forehand too far in front of my body;
2) I had not been using the most suitable technique to hit with my long pips;
3) You can in fact be much more aggressive than you think, IF you develop the mental discipline to stay aggressive, and back it up with correct stance and technique, even if your footwork ability is limited.
4) For my own style, when I am struggling to keep up with an opponent's pace, it means I must play even faster and hit even harder, not try to play more controlled and careful. (WARNING: This applies to hitting aggressively with a combination bat, use at your own risk!)
etc

I only learnt these things because I am more interested in learning and improving then trying to maintain some mental image of myself as a finished, expert table tennis player. Consequently I am probably playing some of my best table tennis ever even though my mobility and fitness is quite poor at the moment.

 

[Archosaurus]

I guess the point you're trying to make is:

1: Listen
2: Make your conclusions 3 months after applying the advice, not the day after
3: Actually apply the advice!

I can see that there's truth in this, because I keep going back to a lot of old advice or things I read, because only now they're making some semblance of sense. It's been well half a year for most of those.

 

[NextLevel]

Archo,

What Greg said in his vid series making fun of TT situations is both hilarious and true. Greg had for YEARS and YEARS ran one of the highest volume TT boards and seen what he describes over and over on the forums, then also in TT clubs. You would not believe even 1 percent of the wild stuff Greg had to put up with even in the last 3 yrs he ran that board... and that was when the people posting there mellowed out by a 10,000x factor.

As high speed as I portray myself, I can be one heck of a knucklehead hard headed B*stard as well. Time and Time again, I get advice on why I lost points or a match and I was so pissed off about the ball bounce messing up my timing (true, it did, but it wasn't the core problem that the high level player was nicely trying to inform me about), but I was so dead set upset I wasn't receptive to any kind of sound advice in the moment immediately after the loss that tourney.

To be fair, a lot of stuff can be said in defense of the lower rated player. I generally agree with you and Greg though, but I am not that highly rated my self. But the lower rated player has more justification than people admit.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

If I play a tourney, and a random guy comes to me and starts giving me advice, how should I know that he really knows what he is talking about? I am sure I can trust Brett, or Greg, or Pingskills guys, but how should I treat those random helpers?

 

[NextLevel]

If I play a tourney, and a random guy comes to me and starts giving me advice, how should I know that he really knows what he is talking about? I am sure I can trust Brett, or Gregg, or Pingskills guys, but how should I treat those random helpers?

How do you know you can trust Brett, Gregg or Pingskills?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

If they listened, I guess that would be a start, perhaps something might get absorbed and be of benefit. But in general, listening without going out and applying what you heard is fairly worthless as far as table tennis is concerned. Same holds true for what people read on Internet table tennis forums.

Simple question to all: How many bits of advice that you read or heard about table tennis did you actually go out and apply for three months?

I would hazard an uninformed guess that lower level players do not want to change their ways. Change is often painful, and in this context of getting advice it means that the lower level player must acknowledge that he has been doing it wrong up until now, and he must then work hard to correct his mistake. That can be pretty hard on the ego to admit you've been wasting your time doing something wrong all along, and for many people it is probably easier to shrug off such advice in order to maintain their self-image.

I've played over 30 years, and in the last couple of years I have learnt:
1) I had been hitting my forehand too far in front of my body;
2) I had not been using the most suitable technique to hit with my long pips;
3) You can in fact be much more aggressive than you think, IF you develop the mental discipline to stay aggressive, and back it up with correct stance and technique, even if your footwork ability is limited.
4) For my own style, when I am struggling to keep up with an opponent's pace, it means I must play even faster and hit even harder, not try to play more controlled and careful. (WARNING: This applies to hitting aggressively with a combination bat, use at your own risk!)
etc

I only learnt these things because I am more interested in learning and improving then trying to maintain some mental image of myself as a finished, expert table tennis player. Consequently I am probably playing some of my best table tennis ever even though my mobility and fitness is quite poor at the moment.

so is it you Greg Letts ? I loved your site about.tabletennis.com. i spent many hours on it....

my level is quite lower than yours, but i agree with a lot you wrote above; if i may add:

1) my best advice for people who really want to improve, is get coaching lessons with a private coach. its expensive. 50 usd an hour ? depending where you live... but its totally worth it. if you can't afford weekly lessons, surely you can afford monthly lessons if you cut on other things and if getting better at table tennis is really important for you. I played TT for many years (started in 1994) and only in 2012 I took my first private lesson !!! what a waste of time !!!
in my first lesson with a really qualified coach (in Japan here in 2013) after 5 minutes he told me to change my grip !!!! after so many years !!!

2) you have to want to improve all the time. Every ball even with the weakest of opponent, is an opportunity to experiment / improve something. You have only a limited time make the most of it... Don't waste all your time practising things you don't do in match. For example, many youngsters like to practise FH to FH battles far from the table... thats cool, it makes you feel like MA Long, but how many points are like that in a match ? I stopped practising defense, i am pretty good at chopping when practise, but i don't do that in match so waste of time... On the other hand, start EVERY drill by serve/receive, because thats what we do all the time !!! etc...
Be disciplined when training.