Double serve like in tennis

[Atas Newton]

I think if you have a free serve on each turn to throw away so to speak then I disagree that nothing much will change at the top level. The Pros produce incredible serves right now but even they are not the best they can do. Ma Lin has his ghost serve which never leaves the table and in fact backs up before it get to the end. Others have equally difficult serves. And if they knew they could always get a free serve if they failed they would push them even further to the edge.

I thought about that too and remembered Ma Lin first as well I just reckon the amount of practice pros already invest in serves is so big that there can't be a lot of room for improvement. Btw, he didn't use the ghost serve because of the lack of deception it offered imo, not because it was not reliable enough. Pure speculation, though.

 

[suds79]

So many reasons why this one is a fail.

- Lengthens the game. Now you get 2 serves. Sports for TV are all trying to make them shorter. The longer a game takes, the less patience people have for it. So from a TV prospective, it's a bad idea. Baseball has been dealing with this issue for years. They're still trying to shorten the game.

- Lets pretend for a second that we will buy this notion that people could have some crazy spiny, high risk but devastating serve. Nevermind the fact that if it's short players would still over the table BH loop it anyways like pretty much all pros have. But again. Lets pretend people could once in a blue moon create this almost un-returable serve. Then they'd serve it, the next person would make an error and point over. Wow that's some exciting TT to watch let me tell ya.

I honestly get the impression that the OP would much rather watch or play this game (see below) if they want the sport to be more like tennis. That's fine is so. Knock yourself out. But that would be what you're going for. Not regular TT with a two service rule.

 

[Atas Newton]

Literally the only reason I even mentioned tennis is to refer to the rules of serve therein. But congrats on trying to ridicule me just for the hell of it. Attacking people on forums must be fun. Re your second point, it's just wrong and you contradict yourself. Everything that happens once in a blue moon is exciting by definition. Whenever an ace happens - it is exciting. When a players returns a serve to the bottom of the net, it's obviously not a spectacular piece of play, but that's simply a part of table tennis. Or if we must resort to snarky remarks in this thread, let me come back at you: if you just want exciting rallies and fast exchanges, why not ban deceptive serves entirely? Or while we're at it, ban everything but the topspin serves.

 

[suds79]

Whew some butt hurt over here.

I didn't attack you. You purposed an idea. I said it's a fail. Listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad idea. Clearly you don't agree. I'm sorry that I ruffled your feathers.

Let me try again then. "While I see where you're coming from, I'm just not quite sure this two serve rule would benefit the game from my prospective. It's just not quite there ya." Feel better?

 

[Ioiettino]

I honestly get the impression that the OP would much rather watch or play this game (see below)

Where can we sign up for this???

I'm not even trolling, darn I'd love a try just now!

 

[jawien]

Where can we sign up for this???

I'm not even trolling, darn I'd love a try just now!

Me too, me too ... ; )

 

[Atas Newton]

Whew some butt hurt over here.

if you prefer to talk like a 13yo, talk to a 13yo. I'll lose no sleep over a random internet dude saying a silly idea I had is a fail and I wasn't referring to that. The last part of your post is basically "hurr durr you want table tennis to be tennis? lol that's stupid, bet you're better off watching this obscure mod of tt". It served no purpose in the critique of the OP and you included it in your post just to be an ass. Now get lost.

 

[Ioiettino]

if you prefer to talk like a 13yo, talk to a 13yo. I'll lose no sleep over a random internet dude saying a silly idea I had is a fail and I wasn't referring to that. The last part of your post is basically "hurr durr you want table tennis to be tennis? lol that's stupid, bet you're better off watching this obscure mod of tt". It served no purpose in the critique of the OP and you included it in your post just to be an ass. Now get lost.

He has a point though, that two serves will make for longer games but shorter rallies. Arguably not what the game needs, and unlikely to ever be discussed outside of here.

Either way, you should both have a game of "ultimate" TT to sort things out.

 

[suds79]

I'll lose no sleep over a random internet dude saying a silly idea I had is a fail and I wasn't referring to that.

Sure you won't.

My bio page:


SMH. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Atas Newton]

He has a point though, that two serves will make for longer games but shorter rallies. Arguably not what the game needs, and unlikely to ever be discussed outside of here.

Either way, you should both have a game of "ultimate" TT to sort things out.

I sorted things out by using the ignore function He had a point, which I referred to in my answer and which I think was wrong for the lack of integrity. He just tried too hard to demonstrate how rubbish my proposal was and pointed out that it both wouldn't make any difference because deadly serves would still be super rare, yet at the same time complained it would make the game boring. Yes, something that happens a couple times per match would surely ruin it, solid logic right there. His first remark about the TV guys being unhappy is of course a valid one, but also the most obvious one, to the point of being trivial, since longer match times are pretty much the only thing guaranteed with the change.

 

[sderyke2002]

I think of serving/pitching in any sport as almost another entity unto itself. Like in golf many famous golfers did not think putting even made sense to be included.

“Putting isn’t golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.” – Chi Chi Rodriguez

“Hitting a golf ball and putting have nothing in common. They’re two different games. You work all your life to perfect a repeating swing that will get you to the greens, and then you have to try to do something that is totally unrelated. There shouldn’t be any cups, just flag sticks. And then the man who hit the most fairways and greens and got closest to the pins would be the tournament winner.” – Ben Hogan

You can have a beautiful fluid powerful game just to have it destroyed by someone who can shove the ball over the net in some sneaky immoral manner. But I would never remove it from the game, it is what makes the game strategic and not just tactical - like all the serves and pitches do in their own sport.

 

[Ioiettino]

if you prefer to talk like a 13yo, talk to a 13yo. I'll lose no sleep over a random internet dude saying a silly idea I had is a fail and I wasn't referring to that. The last part of your post is basically "hurr durr you want table tennis to be tennis? lol that's stupid, bet you're better off watching this obscure mod of tt". It served no purpose in the critique of the OP and you included it in your post just to be an ass. Now get lost.

I sorted things out by using the ignore function He had a point, which I referred to in my answer and which I think was wrong for the lack of integrity. He just tried too hard to demonstrate how rubbish my proposal was and pointed out that it both wouldn't make any difference because deadly serves would still be super rare, yet at the same time complained it would make the game boring. Yes, something that happens a couple times per match would surely ruin it, solid logic right there. His first remark about the TV guys being unhappy is of course a valid one, but also the most obvious one, to the point of being trivial, since longer match times are pretty much the only thing guaranteed with the change.

Okay.


... No ultimate, then?

I'm still not over this thing. Tamca blades, here we come!!!

 

[Tuppe]

Nah, allowing two serves is a bad idea. It's true that serving is more difficult when you are under pressure but that is part of the game. If you want to do a risky serve, you have to accept that it could go wrong. And apart from that, I don't see how taking pressure away, would make the game any more fun.

 

[jawien]

I think, service aspect is much better now, than back in the 21 points system (apart from all the "hiding" issues). Players now are so much more attentive when preparing to serve. When I watch Waldner era youtubes, they almost come to the table and serve right away, with little preparation. It was deprecating the importance of each point - not too good for audience or tv.

 

[Lightzy]

Personally I really like that idea as a rule. First serve error ignored in every serving round puts more points into rallies and allows a bit more creativity with the serves if you like.

But it's not really that important because serving errors happen like... once or twice in a whole game.

I guess that for practice games this rule is perfect. Will make the game much more fun for all involved I think, since it just removes one item of silly frustration and puts more emphasis on the practice and the game

 

[NextLevel]

MY only objection is that it will make the game longer - I actually like the idea lot - the first let should also count as a first serve regardless of whether it is a fault or not.

 

[ttmonster]

I agree , there is no wrong or right idea and the whole notion of discussing it theoretically does not help. Such things need to be tested to actually see which direction things are going. The very reason we ridicule ITTF is that they don't have a proper testing infrastructure to put rules out there and then are too conceited to admit their mistakes.
Back to topic, I feel this won't be successful at the pro level , for the simple reason that the quality of serving will become better and it might not result into rallies the way you are thinking. I am sure every pro has a "second serve" that is effective which they can land with their eyes closed.
However, at the amateur level , what it will help people improve their quality of serving just because they get to practice serves more and it might also help in improving the level of service return as well simply because the receiver will get to see more serves and adapt.

But the point that it might help in getting more interesting rallies going won't just simply happen it might take it in the opposite direction. Again, this is just a theoretical assertion ...

MY only objection is that it will make the game longer - I actually like the idea lot - the first let should also count as a first serve regardless of whether it is a fault or not.

 

[Lightzy]

Well I've actually played a lot of practice games like this with the begginers+ at my club and it's definitely more fun for everyone.

The person serving a fault doesnt enjoy the fault and the other player also doesn't really enjoy seeing the other guy lose a point like that..or getting a point like that, completely unearned. All the uncomfortableness of these fault serves goes away so..
Yeah, definitely fun for practice games.

Dunno about competitive play though. Then again, they do it in tennis so who knows

 

[jawien]

@TTmonster, so you agreed that there is no point in discussing it theoretically ... and then you discussed it ... theoretically ... ))

 

[ttmonster]

.. have you heard of the word "Disclaimer" ?

@TTmonster, so you agreed that there is no point in discussing it theoretically ... and then you discussed it ... theoretically ... ))