Easy point against pimples player

[urbanzakapa]

Have you encountered a pimple player?, not a player with face full of acne but a player using pips out rubber.

All of my matches against them are not always going smoothly,

So lets share your best step to get an easy point from them?

(N/b: pips out player can also tell us your weaknesses. We will be very grateful[emoji56] )

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[Hamasaki_Fanz]

+1 pls welp im having trouble too LOL

 

[Kokain]

Not sure if what I found is true or not but the age of the pimples matter. New once is good to start with chop and 2nd shot do a top spin, keep doing that combo and I find it puts the opponent in discomfort. Of course you can just try and top spin every ball.
With old pimples this don't matter so much as they are now worn and the ball is returned dead with no spin and you just either have to power over or brush loop it where you want. The biggest thing about pimple players is it gives them consistency to return the ball. This is why old folks tend to use them a lot. But they also don't like changing rubbers as they only play for fun so their 10 year old rubbers are way past their prime to give a backspin return and the ball tends to float more on the return.

I don't know I haven't fully figured it out yet but I am winning a lot more these days, and I do try to push them away from the table and make them run. Also don't forget they only play with 1 rubber, so you can try and put it more on their forehand. Watch them twiddle, those are the best points when you catch him twiddle in mid air like Randy Orton and deliver the RKO........OUTTA NOWHERE

 

[lycaon]

all i tend to do is long backspin or long flat deep into the pimples side, this is so they cant loop it or drop shot it, then the next ball is pretty much a free loop and so on remembering that each time they hit with pimples it reverses spin. when I loop however i would aim for their pips-in and when i chop aim for pimples. Also to note, be careful of twiddlers. if they twiddle for a return, just chop it back first and be patient until the right ball. when you are trying to return a pimpled chop off back spin, remember that it is top spin (unless they are using short pimples, thats a whole different game) so cover and drive through for your loop rather than creating too much of your own spin. if you really really want to hit those back spin balls, spin upwards, slowly dont rush and try to hit extremely fast loops until you get used to it
on a pimpled rubber serve, its 99.9% flat so pretty much loop the hell out of it

 

[urbanzakapa]

all i tend to do is long backspin or long flat deep into the pimples side, this is so they cant loop it or drop shot it, then the next ball is pretty much a free loop and so on remembering that each time they hit with pimples it reverses spin. when I loop however i would aim for their pips-in and when i chop aim for pimples. Also to note, be careful of twiddlers. if they twiddle for a return, just chop it back first and be patient until the right ball. when you are trying to return a pimpled chop off back spin, remember that it is top spin (unless they are using short pimples, thats a whole different game) so cover and drive through for your loop rather than creating too much of your own spin. if you really really want to hit those back spin balls, spin upwards, slowly dont rush and try to hit extremely fast loops until you get used to it
on a pimpled rubber serve, its 99.9% flat so pretty much loop the hell out of it

I know this theory but I keep forgetting this when I am in match.

But my hard-to-beat-opponents with pimple currently are really good at controlling the ball, hence they can just placed the ball with their weirdly-style-of-handshake-holding anywhere in the table ( deep in or long at the corner). Make me the one who running around the table.[emoji49]

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[Anders]

Try move 'em around the table as much as you can, then destroy them with strange heavy spin serves/no spin serves and power loops.. And try to keep patient

 

[raazzz]

I often use long fast serves and then trying to get the first attach straight in the middle or with a good angle in the backhand or forehand corner. Try to avoid playing with the same speed and spin. A good variation is the key

 

[guitch]

Indeed good variation is a key! I agree!
In term of idea, I usually use a long fast serve with a little back spin. then the ball come back with almost nothing or slightly lifted, then I can finish with a more powerful attack (topspin).

also serve variation between heavy underpin and just nothing is great!!I score a lot of point like this!

 

[raazzz]

Precisly guitch that often my tactic exactly. I often have a good variation between a long slightly underspined serve deep in the opponens backhand and a really short serve in forehand. This makes the opponent feel frustrated and it often gives me some easy points.

 

[lycaon]

its probably because you are putting it short for them hence they can push anymore, if you push deep and long into the pimples, they wont have much time or room to do weird angles hence return a nice soft ball to you

 

[guitch]

good to see we use the same approach, so it might be the right one

Since I found this (some years ago) I am not intimidated by any long pimples anymore.

what is also great against long and short pimple is to perform a fake topspin" just by lifting the ball with no spin. It gives great result as the opponent will dive the ball toward the net. Easy point

 

[raazzz]

Yes thats also good! These serve tacktics work best against pimple players who dont witch rubbers during the points. But if they do I often use this tactic and also puts in a long fast serve in the middle.

 

[TT_Rogue]

Pimple-Player here! Interestig that you are mentioning that you can make easy points on pimp players with serves. I mean one of the big advantages is that you are less sensitive to rotation with pumps. So if you give me a long serve I'm the happiest on earth and you get a shot from me when it is a empty/forward/side-spin serve. If it is a backspin maybe i chop it but most likely i will anyway go around for a long serve and you can take my spin instead. On short more slowly serves it is fairly easy to flip.. as mentioned receiving serves is an advantage of pimps. If you face a player that is always chopping short serves, do strong side-spin serves most likely they will be high enough to attack, also if the ball comes short. Ok lets come to the point what is really scary for pimps. When you attack on the pimps multiple times and you are variating your spin that it is more like a very spinless slow throw.. it is horrible for me. Im doing so many f*cking misstakes on it. A lot of pimp players tend to try to use the pimps everywhere, try to figure out that hole and use it against them (yes then perhaps with long fast serves). I think there is no certain weakspot honestly for pimp players, it is as always a matter of skill

 

[raazzz]

I did not mean that I get easy points on my serve. The opponent always gets it back but the good think for me is that I know what I get. If I serve a long fast slightly underspined serve in your pipes I know that I will be able to get the first attch against you. Also since I have a good variation with a short serve in your forehand you won't be able to move around on the long serves.

 

[raazzz]

But of course it's very individual and to win over a good player with long pipes a fast serve is not enough, but at least for it has been a good tactic so far.

 

[NextLevel]

Pips (and I mean long pips) players are all different, you have to play them a lot to get used to reading the ball and the stroke. Start with pip players at the lowest level, because when you play higher level ones or ones at your level, you have to read the pips and the player, and that is harder than just reading the pips. When you learn to read the pips, then you can graduate to dealing with the player. Sponge vs no sponge also makes a difference.

For easy points, the only thing I know for sure is if you have heavy backspin serve, flat/no-spin serve and decent topspin serve that look similar.

Because pips react to spin, it's just that it is easier because they can make swipe or chop returns on heavy sidespin and give it back to you if they can read the ball easily.

But if they think your heavy backspin is no-spin, they will push it into the net. You can get one free point per game with with this serve because after, they will be looking for it. So you have to be ready to attack the topspin return after this.

Most serves should be no spin, because when you serve nospin to pips, you will get nospin back, then you can attack with your loop vs no-spin ball stroke and begin the point from there.

Then once in a while, throw in a topspin serve which the person will popup unless they read it. They will usually chop it so the ball will come high, but you have to know how to attack your own spin or you may put it off the table or into the net.

You also have the option to play the other side of the table if the pip side is too strong. If the person is using pips all over the table, then test their transition with one shot/serve to the forehand and then the next shot to the backhand and so on or vice versa. It is hard to cover the table with one side of the racket.

IF you have questions, let me know - I am not great vs pips, but I am not chopped liver - you need to be at my level as a pips player to beat me and that is all I ask for.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Pips (and I mean long pips) players are all different, you have to play them a lot to get used to reading the ball and the stroke.

Darn you NextLevel! You beat me to this. Once again you say what I was going to, before I get there. You have to wake up early in the morning to beat NextLevel to the punch! Hahahaha.

One of the things about playing, the more you play and train vs different players and styles the more creative and adaptable to whatever you are facing you will become. If you use anything in a match, stuff that works for free, easy points early will get you roasted later in the match if you are up against a good player. So your tactics need to change based on things you figure out about the other player during a match.

There is no real fix but to play against long pips players. NextLevel's suggestion of playing against pips players who are not as good as you to get used to the pips is a great idea because it is hard to find pips players who train.

But if you can find a good or higher rated pips player who is willing to train with you, that is great also. I was lucky to have that situation when I first started learning to play and it was two guys who were both way better than me who were as happy to train as to play matches. And they both used their pips and played very differently from each other.

If you are mostly playing matches vs pips players, it is worth not worrying about winning and losing so you can just be creative and try a bunch of different things. Over time you get to start knowing what is coming back at you if you use playing against a pips player as an experiment rather than being focused on the end result.

One last thing to note: if you are playing a pips player and keep on losing to him/her, the player is better than you! Even if you think that is not true, if the results show that they keep winning, they are doing something better than you. But the difference might not be as big as the score either.

It takes skill to use pips and if you make awesome, cool loops loaded with topspin and those shots keep coming back low and short, that is not easy to do and takes a lot of skill. If you are not ready for what comes back, that means you need to improve on that. If you beat yourself and they are just putting the ball on the table, then that shows you what you need to work on too.

One thing I have found is, to be good against LP it is a huge asset to be good at the over the table game. If you can't return short balls that are low and will double bounce or come off the table at handbreaker length, then that is an essential skill to work on because the better the skill of a LP player, the more they can force you to take awkward shots. And the most awkward stuff to handle happens over the table.

Also, as NextLevel has already pointed out, if you have a 50/50 shot (or better) against a pips player who is the same basic level as you, then you are pretty good vs long pips.

There will always be pips players who are lower level than you and there will always be pips players who are higher level than you (unless your name is ______[supply the name of your favorite CNT player]). But if you adapt to the pips well and still lose to a higher level player who uses pips, all it shows is that you lost to a higher level player.


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[NextLevel]

There will always be pips players who are lower level than you and there will always be pips players who are higher level than you (unless your name is ______[supply the name of your favorite CNT player]). But if you adapt to the pips well and still lose to a higher level player who uses pips, all it shows is that you lost to a higher level player.

Hahahaha, Carl. One thing I will say is that because inverted is the dominant playing surface, how well you play against it tends to define your general playing level and as you get better, the key is usually serve return and heavy topspin.

Things like how you play against backspin/chop, pip players/hitters/no spin, lobbers and fishers, or even blockers etc. all play a role, but they are styles that you can play against at a different level relative to your inverted play for various reasons.

I know players who play long pips at a much higher level than their inverted/general playing level, probably 150-200 points higher. In fact, you can argue that with the exception of one shot against which my brain regularly farts, I play close to the table pips players at a higher level than my general playing level (+50-100pts) and choppers at a lower level (-50-100pts). But that's largely because I have played against a lot of them in my club and my level against them sometimes goes up and down if I practice more or less against them given how much I need to or practice against inverted styles.

Many people don't realize that if they changed equipment radically and played their new style for 6 months to a year, their level would remain largely the same. Why do I say that? Because spin reading on serve and serve return is a large deal in this sport and because you can usually remain consistent when you have read the spin, that skill determines your level more than anything else. So this is why people need to stop focusing on equipment and accept certain things.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yet another top quality post. Thanks NextLevel. I agree.

And someone can be a pretty high level vs smooth and terrible vs LP.

I have some friends I know like that. There have been times when I have told a few friends that they were LP retarded. They could play an 1800-1900 level player even and then they would play a 1400-1500 LP player and have no idea what was going on.

I actually remember showing up to Bryant Park (they have two outdoor tables) and seeing a friend who played at this club I played at in Chinatown. He was playing this guy he should have been way better than. I watched a few points. I watched the ball go into the net and him look at his racket. I watched the ball fly long and to the left and he looked at his racket.

I said to him: "What's wrong with you? That is anti-spin!" Stunned, he looked at me and said: "You mean that's why I keep losing to this guy!" But after he knew it was anti-spin he still didn't know what to do against it. LOL.

"I like to make big topspin loops!"


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[NextLevel]

Yet another top quality post. Thanks NextLevel. I agree.

And someone can be a pretty high level vs smooth and terrible vs LP.

I have some friends I know like that. There have been times when I have told a few friends that they were LP retarded. They could play an 1800-1900 level player even and then they would play a 1400-1500 LP player and have no idea what was going on.

I actually remember showing up to Bryant Park (they have two outdoor tables) and seeing a friend who played at this club I played at in Chinatown. He was playing this guy he should have been way better than. I watched a few points. I watched the ball go into the net and him look at his racket. I watched the ball fly long and to the left and he looked at his racket.

I said to him: "What's wrong with you? That is anti-spin!" Stunned, he looked at me and said: "You mean that's why I keep losing to this guy!" But after he knew it was anti-spin he still didn't know what to do against it. LOL.

"I like to make big topspin loops!"


Sent from MountOlympus via Hermes'Caduceus

I went to a league yesterday night and in the division below mine, there was a guy, S, whose athleticism and stroke power that I respect a lot - he hasn't beaten me that I remember (or maybe he has once), but his full bodied strokes usually gave me problems and forced me to stop playing passively even when I wanted to take points off. But recently, I have been beating him easily and while it was in part because I had jumped a level or two and he hadn't, I couldn't put the finger on why.

Then I saw him play an anti-spin Seemiller type player. Don't get me wrong, the Seemiller player used to be over 2K but had dropped a bit as he got older, but still, watching S chop back the ball made me see exactly what was all wrong. It is dangerous to be able to loop the ball with only 1 kind of feeling. He didn't know how to put his body rotation into heavy spin focus and even when he got good spin, it was always as part of an effort to drive the ball forward. Spin for the sake of spin was not his vocabulary.

So after he lost a tough match to the Seemiller guy, I told him that he had to learn to spin the ball in different ways and with different goals. Trying to spin the ball one way all the time is a hard way to improve and beat players unless your shot is just the God Radical Almighty Nuclear Destruction (GRAND) shot that always works. I pointed out three different higher rated players and showed him that none of them were putting as much power into their shots as he was, so why is he trying to put his power into hitting the ball in risky ways all the time?

I hope he gets it, because he is too fit to be wasting that kind of movement and power on being scared to wipe out no spin serves.