Eugene vs 2200 player

[Dr Evil]

For balance, here's Eugene vs a 2900 level player.

 

[the-don]

Wow, a win over Fang Bo is no joke. So he really is world class level in his prime.

Who are the best 5 former Chinese players around the world today? Wang Zhen, Ma Jinbao, Kou Lei, would they be top 3?

And why does it seem like they are all in North America? Why is North America the hotspot for Chinese players who didn't quite make the CNT?

Because USA is where people make most money if they are elite level.....in any profession.
Probably helps that the world currency is pretty much the dollar but only americans can emit this currency 😁

Personally I took lessons with high level players but they will teach you a high level style of play (constant attack/loop).
At this point I aim to a more relaxed passive style where I can just have fun and not destroy every single ball with all my power like pros do.

Not to mention many high level players end up with injuries so probably not a style worth chasing.

here Eugene lost to Cifuentes from Argentina so his current ittf ranking should be around 90 - 120

here's another match you could watch....Alto (Cifuentes doubles partner) with a ittf ranking 181 against an amateur player.
In this case you can see Alto clearly taking it easy against maybe a US-2300 guy.

 

[dingyibvs]

Wow, a win over Fang Bo is no joke. So he really is world class level in his prime.

Who are the best 5 former Chinese players around the world today? Wang Zhen, Ma Jinbao, Kou Lei, would they be top 3?

And why does it seem like they are all in North America? Why is North America the hotspot for Chinese players who didn't quite make the CNT?

Most know some English since it's usually taught since elementary school, and it's a good place to live. Men's TT is more competitive, so those factors would take precedence.

If you look at women's TT, which is less competitive and ex-CNT members can have a successful career as a pro player outside of China, they generally go elsewhere. In other words, you go to NA for the lifestyle, you go elsewhere for continued development as a player.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Most know some English since it's usually taught since elementary school, and it's a good place to live. Men's TT is more competitive, so those factors would take precedence.

If you look at women's TT, which is less competitive and ex-CNT members can have a successful career as a pro player outside of China, they generally go elsewhere. In other words, you go to NA for the lifestyle, you go elsewhere for continued development as a player.

I mean, if they live in China they can just speak Chinese right?

Us the TT money in NA that good or something?

 

[dingyibvs]

I mean, if they live in China they can just speak Chinese right?

Us the TT money in NA that good or something?

The vast, vast majority do stay in China. You just don't see them competing internationally for obvious reasons.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The vast, vast majority do stay in China. You just don't see them competing internationally for obvious reasons.

Also for coaching, wouldn't there be a lot more students in Korea or Japan or Taiwan or something? Singapore? Even Germany or something.

 

[dingyibvs]

Also for coaching, wouldn't there be a lot more students in Korea or Japan or Taiwan or something? Singapore? Even Germany or something.

Sure, there are a lot who go there. See Dang Qiu and Harimoto's parents, for example. Again, you don't hear about them because it's more competitive and they can only coach, and not play on say the German or Japanese national teams.

 

[NextLevel]

For balance, here's Eugene vs a 2900 level player.

I don't know whether that is balance so much as the usual result vs Wang Chuqin.

 

[NextLevel]

Because USA is where people make most money if they are elite level.....in any profession.
Probably helps that the world currency is pretty much the dollar but only americans can emit this currency 😁

Personally I took lessons with high level players but they will teach you a high level style of play (constant attack/loop).
At this point I aim to a more relaxed passive style where I can just have fun and not destroy every single ball with all my power like pros do.

Not to mention many high level players end up with injuries so probably not a style worth chasing.

here Eugene lost to Cifuentes from Argentina so his current ittf ranking should be around 90 - 120

here's another match you could watch....Alto (Cifuentes doubles partner) with a ittf ranking 181 against an amateur player.
In this case you can see Alto clearly taking it easy against maybe a US-2300 guy.

Again, not exactly taking it easy, as Gaston Alto's superpower is service and blocking. But of course, the difference in level means the game is so slow for him he doesn't really need to try. But he is another guy who can make you look bad without seriously spinning any balls.

 

[the-don]

Again, not exactly taking it easy, as Gaston Alto's superpower is service and blocking. But of course, the difference in level means the game is so slow for him he doesn't really need to try. But he is another guy who can make you look bad without seriously spinning any balls.

Here's Alto vs a US-2650 player.....and Alto is 181 in ITTF......so he's not so close to the top.
Unfortunately for us a US-2200 or 2300 is barely a rather advanced amateur

and here's Ma Long giving no chance to Alto.
Alto I wouldn't call him a blocker but more of a lobber... a bit similar style to Gauzy, Ouaiche or even their coach Chila.

 

[riemsesy]

Because USA is where people make most money if they are elite level.....in any profession.
Probably helps that the world currency is pretty much the dollar but only americans can emit this currency 😁

Personally I took lessons with high level players but they will teach you a high level style of play (constant attack/loop).
At this point I aim to a more relaxed passive style where I can just have fun and not destroy every single ball with all my power like pros do.

Not to mention many high level players end up with injuries so probably not a style worth chasing.

here Eugene lost to Cifuentes from Argentina so his current ittf ranking should be around 90 - 120

here's another match you could watch....Alto (Cifuentes doubles partner) with a ittf ranking 181 against an amateur player.
In this case you can see Alto clearly taking it easy against maybe a US-2300 guy.

never seen such a serve as at 6:03

 

[the-don]

Here's the final in case anybody's interested.
Alto vs a guy I estimate US-2500 ~ 2550

 

[dingyibvs]

Isn't Mishel Levinski like 2500-2600 range? He took a game off of Ma Long in the last WTTTC right? Sarah Jalli I think took a game off of CXT in the same event, and she was like what, 2400 at the time and CXT is def a level above 2600+ Lily Zhang.

 

[NextLevel]

Here's Alto vs a US-2650 player.....and Alto is 181 in ITTF......so he's not so close to the top.
Unfortunately for us a US-2200 or 2300 is barely a rather advanced amateur

and here's Ma Long giving no chance to Alto.
Alto I wouldn't call him a blocker but more of a lobber... a bit similar style to Gauzy, Ouaiche or even their coach Chila.

The highest level part of Gaston's game is his service and his blocking - that is what I see him doing well when he beats strong players (of course serving is really serve and attack). He isn't a counterlooper per se. Using ITTF ranking today to evaluate a player is misleading - Gaston was top 100 in the world at peak and easily one of the best South American players for a while. Watching someone play top 10 Chinese players is largely a waste of time unless something about their game is strong enough to cause the player significant problems. But when someone's service game is as strong as Gaston, he doesn't have to try hard to cause problems most of the problems will just be missed easy balls. But Kai likes to attack pushes so I am sure the scouting report told Gaston to flip almost all the service.

 

[NextLevel]

Isn't Mishel Levinski like 2500-2600 range? He took a game off of Ma Long in the last WTTTC right? Sarah Jalli I think took a game off of CXT in the same event, and she was like what, 2400 at the time and CXT is def a level above 2600+ Lily Zhang.

Sample sizes of one with all the caveats there in. Mishel is a lefty with really great serves. Sarah just took some miracle potion, such things should not be happening - but more seriously, I have always felt that the CNT players sometimes play matches with deliberate instructions to handicap them sometimes for training against weaker players. It is probably my own fairy tale, but things like CXT losing a game to Sarah make me think something like that is true.

 

[dingyibvs]

Sample sizes of one with all the caveats there in. Mishel is a lefty with really great serves. Sarah just took some miracle potion, such things should not be happening - but more seriously, I have always felt that the CNT players sometimes play matches with deliberate instructions to handicap them sometimes for training against weaker players. It is probably my own fairy tale, but things like CXT losing a game to Sarah make me think something like that is true.

I think the key is really service and receive. Obviously those lower rated players are not as good in rallies either, but whenever I see 2400+ players getting destroyed by pros it's in the service/receive game. If for whatever reason they can handle the service/receive game then they can win a set here and there or at least keep the score somewhat respectable most of the time.

 

[NextLevel]

I think the key is really service and receive. Obviously those lower rated players are not as good in rallies either, but whenever I see 2400+ players getting destroyed by pros it's in the service/receive game. If for whatever reason they can handle the service/receive game then they can win a set here and there or at least keep the score somewhat respectable most of the time.

That's inevitable but part of it is also that the lower rated players are generally expected to be handled by overall playing level and usually don't get specialized prep or coaching tactics used on them until after the first game. This is very different from the enemies of China who get dissected by the analytics and coaching teams and who every coach in the Chinese system knows their strengths and weaknesses and can tell you how to play them with eyes closed and who probably have a clone in practice for extra preparation.

 

[piligrim]

Because you don't watch (enough) table tennis. This guy was the best table tennis player in the Americas for a while, he used to either win or come second in the US Open almost every year even with all those German and Japanese people coming in. Old ITTF rules didn't let him play for Canada other than Olympics events and qualifiers, but even when Kanak was the top American, everyone knew he really had a debatable chance against Eugene - Eugene was the legit 2800+ player in NA for a long time, even the Jia A guys they brought directly from China almost never beat him, they just gave him a run for his money.

IN NA simple there is no world level players except Kanak does why Eugene was best Americas player. On world level he just average player. Current world ranking doesn't mean something. Eugene ranking higher then many players much better then him.

 

[NextLevel]

IN NA simple there is no world level players except Kanak does why Eugene was best Americas player. On world level he just average player. Current world ranking doesn't mean something. Eugene ranking higher then many players much better then him.

World level is world level, there are no average players at the world level. Eugene has beaten a lot of players in the top 100, you can decide whether you want to use the word "average" for that or something else, there are no average 2800 players IMHO.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

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Result of all childhood bicycling and powerlifting in my twenties and mygene’s 😁

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