Eugene vs 2200 player

[bachikho]

Fang Bo should be around WR10 or so back in 2015 when Eugene beat him.

Eugene Wang - The Best Present: A Win Against Fan Bo

Butterfly Online | Butterfly Table Tennis

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I'm sure there is also wins over Gao Ning (another Top 20 player) - google search says in 2012

google search also seems to indicated there are also wins against Robles, Wang Yang,

ITTF has closed its stats section, so I can't really do a quick check there, but to stated that under the old ranking where a WR50 player doesn't have wins against WR100 players is really... "not knowing how the old system works".

fang bo is world runner-up in wttc 2015

 

[TensorBackhand]

fang bo is world runner-up in wttc 2015

Ma Jinbao also recently beat some world level players. I think its cool that we have this competitive scene in America with this calibre of player.

 

[NextLevel]

Ma Jinbao also recently beat some world level players. I think its cool that we have this competitive scene in America with this calibre of player.

Ma Jinbao went down 0-3 to Eugene at the US Open before mounting a comeback. Two "average" players I guess:

 

[TensorBackhand]

Ma Jinbao went down 0-3 to Eugene at the US Open before mounting a comeback. Two "average" players I guess:

Do both of them make their living as coaches?

 

[TensorBackhand]

I like Ma Jinbao because he plays like me, but obviously about 7 levels above.

But he plays a smart game like a counterpuncher. He uses his bh to block and probe, and loops his forehand to finish points. Its a very pleasing style.

 

[NextLevel]

Do both of them make their living as coaches?

I don't know enough to answer certainly - some of their income comes from coaching, but coaching is not the same thing to everyone especially if you can own your club - even Timo Boll coaches, but more as a practice partner for the higher level players. But maybe someone better connected like Matt might know.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He used to play in French League as well, he is probably somewhere in Europe playing and training this year, anyone who acts like Eugene wasn't a top player who just couldn't play for Canada in the kinds of ITTF events that would have made him famous is not really serious, if he had been able to get full Canada status earlier, he might have had a higher world ranking. There was even a year that I think he almost won Panamerican games, Hugo barely beat him.

there was a record of him and hugo, where hugo won in the decider 4-3
Eugene lost to a lot of big names 4-3, so he isn't your average Joe indeed

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

IN NA simple there is no world level players except Kanak does why Eugene was best Americas player. On world level he just average player. Current world ranking doesn't mean something. Eugene ranking higher then many players much better then him.

I guess your not reading my English to understand,
in 2012 to 2015 where it was likely Eugene's prime, it was the very old world ranking system. So his ranking was not inflated and he was 50~65 then and have wins against many top 20 players, including world champ 2nd place Fang Bo. I counted over a dozen top 50 players that Eugene beat, from the likes of Japan, Germany, Singapore, China and Europe (TT big nations basically)

Eugene did deserve his spot around the WR50 mark, and I am now tending to agree with NL. You obviously haven't been watching much table tennis of 10 years ago to assume Eugene was not world level.
I would say, Eugene in his prime is still higher than Kanak at his best. Kanak's WR is inflated due to the new WTT world ranking - which was introduced 4 years ago only... Eugene was 34 years old, 4 years ago, and on the decline.
If Eugene had WTT new world ranking today, he would likely be inflated from 50~60 to 20~30.

If you don't understand how WR works 10 years ago, then, maybe it is best for you to go and research a bit and also check the historical data on how many famous players Eugene has beaten in his ITTF career (WTT didn't exist back then).

If any, Kanak is NA groomed, while Eugene is Chinese groom. But Eugene being the level he was in NA 10 years ago, did beat all those Chinese provincial players (and national b team players) that still reside in the USA today and his wins over top world players are a fact and can't be edited. In NA Eugene was basically undefeatable and only defeatable now and have many wins against other world level player, just a pity he is no longer in his 20s, so he can show you his world level (but there is youtube for that)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ma Jinbao went down 0-3 to Eugene at the US Open before mounting a comeback. Two "average" players I guess:

I think with Timo Boll's record success few days ago, it is now deemed "par" that a 38 year old Eugene should of beaten 23 year old Ma lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ma Jinbao also recently beat some world level players. I think its cool that we have this competitive scene in America with this calibre of player.

There is no doubt the quality of table tennis within USA has risen. I started following TT in the USA around 2012.
Just the amount of full time table tennis training centers and the quality of the juniors now compared 10 years ago is evidence that there is growth.

The women's was always ahead of its game, with Ariel, Lily and Erica back then.
Sadly, school and career took over, and only Lily remained, and Amy has risen up to be the new queen. A pity she lost 4-3 to Bruna yesterday at Pan An. There are also a couple of junior girls hovering around 2450 to 2500 mark.

On the mens side, 2500 home grown juniors is so common now, they just need to break the 2600~2700 mark, and Kanak was the only one, until his ban.
Hope he shows up in March for the OG trials.

 

[Dr Evil]

I would say, Eugene in his prime is still higher than Kanak at his best. Kanak's WR is inflated due to the new WTT world ranking - which was introduced 4 years ago only... Eugene was 34 years old, 4 years ago, and on the decline. If Eugene had WTT new world ranking today, he would likely be inflated from 50~60 to 20~30.

Strongly agree. You might even be understating it. Kanak's best was in the low 20s. Eugene might have been close to top 10, similar to Adriana Diaz today.

 

[joshmak10]

What’s ur opinion on the new highest rated Canadian of all time, WR37 Edward Ly. He seems very promising at 20 years old

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Strongly agree. You might even be understating it. Kanak's best was in the low 20s. Eugene might have been close to top 10, similar to Adriana Diaz today.

True hey, I could just be understating Eugene potential peak at todays inflated rankings, but Adriana did have some good performance, i will share shortly

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What’s ur opinion on the new highest rated Canadian of all time, WR37 Edward Ly. He seems very promising at 20 years old

I think that is good for Edward.
Just like its good for those from Oceania players, as it help get them into Star Contender as such, which is a faster way to accumulate points (than just feeders), Just see how his 12 point in QR2 is higher than a 8 point from R32 in Feeder

I recall one of the Aussie players telling me, the player was like 200 something in the world and 1 tournament later, he went into 30 something. Because continental champ point is 500. and 500 alone can get you into 40 in the world.

Same thing with Edward
of the 536 points he has, 500 came from 1 tournament.
So when that 1 tournament "expires" in a years time, he could drop back to WR150
But if he starts doing well (like Hugo) and gains another 250 points, he would be 25~30 in the world. From there, it is a lot thougher to climb, as we talking you need 1000 + points, so each "of the 8", you need 125 + points on avg to push you into a Top 20 player

To be honest, a WR30 player should be a regular in R32 and at times make it into R16 or higher.
This is how you know if points and level have inflation or not.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

In comparison, here is A Diaz with 1600 points.
Her 500 points helps a lot to push her to WR20 3 years ago, and then she had to get good points from Star Contender, Contender and Smash. and R16 also helped in Durban to maintain a high position

Just making it to Japan finals (loosing first round) gives her 100 points too.
So this is why, once you on the top, and can still "gain points", it is very difficult to drop. And on the contrary, it is very difficult to gain world ranking without participation in the "majors" events. ie, winning all the feeders won't get you far (125 points to win, gets you max 1000 points)

However, Diaz has done pretty good in 2023 to get into a couple of R16 and higher positions. Her worse of the 8 in calculation is R16.
If she lost the 500 points from Pan Am, then she would be around WR20. So one could argue that 11 is inflated, and she should be more around 15~17.

Note, there is also a lot more tournaments she played where her "high ranking" helped her with points/qualifications.
of the 8:
1 x star contender
1 x smash
1 x finals
1 x champions
granted, she had to progress up to get those attractive points

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

one of my coach, GC Foerster, ex-national Holland team player (and Bundesliga pro) once won a game against a (very) low level amateur 11-0 11-0 11-0. He said he was 120% focus, and it was a very tiring effort. Its so easy to miss one ball, or there were a few chances for the other player, and a few nets to recover during the game...

He said he never ever did this before...

 

[Der_Echte]

E. Wang is currently WR 67 ITTF Men's... and last year was higher ranked.

Bet U all sum Pizza that E. Wang in his 20s would crush many of the current WR20-30 men... but we will never know.

 

[Der_Echte]

Wow, a win over Fang Bo is no joke. So he really is world class level in his prime.

Who are the best 5 former Chinese players around the world today? Wang Zhen, Ma Jinbao, Kou Lei, would they be top 3?

And why does it seem like they are all in North America? Why is North America the hotspot for Chinese players who didn't quite make the CNT?

Have U checked out how much COLD CASH per Hour that parents pay the 2700+ former and current players to coach their kids in the Bay Area clubs ???

$150 per hr just to sneeze in the same building with them, often 200 an hour.

Coach gets a fair chunk of that money... and if you like Kou Lei and open ur club and make urself head coach, you get all that dough.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Have U checked out how much COLD CASH per Hour that parents pay the 2700+ former and current players to coach their kids in the Bay Area clubs ???

$150 per hr just to sneeze in the same building with them, often 200 an hour.

Coach gets a fair chunk of that money... and if you like Kou Lei and open ur club and make urself head coach, you get all that dough.

Why is it so expensive in america, but not other countries?

 

[Der_Echte]

U do not have government giving free facilities for a TT club to use for operations...

... and since the leftist who run nearly every one of USA cities of .5 million or larger (and run the entre Bay Are)... these leftists make government legislation that makes it cost prohibitive to make new housing or building that is affordable... and when you get moar and moar people and not much new buildings, the price of everything goes up.

Even my metro area of 3 million people cannot have a full time club... the cost to lease and operate a suitable space is simply too much.

In these USA cities... to run a club, leased space costs $2 a month per square foot... so a suitable sized space to run 16+ tables is easily $20K a month. Then there are other fixed and variable expenses such as insurance, utilities, security, janitorial, govt reg compliance, maintenance, staff...

To run such a place, you need 150 members paying $75 or so a month... then you need 100 kids or adults training every week with the coaches... 70%+ of revenue must be from coaching or the financial weight of the club will crush itself.

Clubs close all the time simply because they cannot attract enough members and people to take lessons.

In the Sac metro area where I live, almost the entire TT playing population are direct descendants of Ebeneezer Scrooge. They simply want to play for free or damned next to it and damn it if that means you can only set up tables once a week at a community center and pay $5 USD to meet the near free expenses.

I do not think that even 12 adults are actively training and paying someone to teach them TT in my 3 Million Sac metro area...

I coach at a Cali university TT club and I get paid zero, like zero and I pay huge gasoline money to get to the uni and pay $8 USD to park the car every time i go to the uni to help out.

This is a reality in urban USA.

Of course in the rural areas, costs are much lower... but even if you flashed a big neon sign advertising FREE BEERZ and live cheerleaders, you would not get more than 20 people in your TT club each month. No one wants to pay to play TT when they can bunt the ball in their basements, giggle, then drink a beer.