Eugene vs 2200 player

[Der_Echte]

The Bay Are is unique, so many foreigners whose culture is very friendly towards learning TT and paying for it... and nearly all of them can afford it easily.

In USA, you always hear stories of rags to riches for athletes in Baseball, Basketball, and American Football... but you will never hear that in TT.

It takes nearly one million USD to train a kid from age 7 to 21 to give them a chance to be a professional... then the parent realizes that if they are not WR20 or better, they will not make enough money to keep body and soul together and take them out of TT.

 

[Metaxa]

I have no idea about the grading system in America or Canada but how should I read/understand a 2200 level? I suppose they are not comparable to ELO points?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Why is it so expensive in america, but not other countries?

LYJ paid USD4000 a month to hire a coach when he was still unknown, and still need to factor accommodation, meals and perks cost
and then costs to hire training partners (yes, coach doesn't block for you, he could feed multiball, but you would need to have practice partners too)

Taiwan is considered way cheaper than USA, but the cost to grow quickly, does come with a price tag.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The Bay Are is unique, so many foreigners whose culture is very friendly towards learning TT and paying for it... and nearly all of them can afford it easily.

In USA, you always hear stories of rags to riches for athletes in Baseball, Basketball, and American Football... but you will never hear that in TT.

It takes nearly one million USD to train a kid from age 7 to 21 to give them a chance to be a professional... then the parent realizes that if they are not WR20 or better, they will not make enough money to keep body and soul together and take them out of TT.

1 million USD is what Cathay Table Tennis term burn a year to look after around 40 players (house, feed, educated, train).
However, there are additional national and city gov funding for national players and perks (free) from the likes of sponsors and mizuno (each player gets 4 pairs of shoe per year).
I'm not sure how much is the total expense value in a year, but yeah, sport isn't cheap.

 

[NextLevel]

Edward Ly is an interesting story that has me puzzled. Continental story aside, he performed extremely well at the tournament and was clearly the best player. I am curious as to how Canasa produced such a pop layer and what it might mean if he played on tour.

 

[ttarc]

1800 can 11-0 another 1800...
I would say there is something wrong with one of the players levels.

1800 should have enough basics to be able to not throw 11 points away, against any style, unless, it is just say an inflated rating due to only playing a "comfort" style opponent, and "zero" exposure to all other styles. Hence one of the players level is "inflated"

Everything's possible in TT
Eugenes namesake Evgueni Chtchetinine 1) won against Mossily a couple of days ago 11:5 11:0 11:3 2)
Chtchetinine's TTR is currently 2305 but he peaked at 2531 in 2006 3). Mossily TTR = 2147, peak TTR 2195 in 2019.
In the same match Chtchetinine beat František Krčil 4) 11:5 11:7 11:3.
That's btw the same league in Germany where Seth Pech is playing
https://www.mytischtennis.de/clickt...a-Sued/gruppe/444835/mannschaftsmeldungen/rr/

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgueni_Chtchetinine
2) https://www.mytischtennis.de/clickt...14151481/TTC-Kist-vs-TV-1879-Hilpoltstein-II/
3) Timo Boll's TTR was 2663 at that time in 2006
4) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/František_Krčil current TTR = 2172, peak TTR = 2365 in 2014

I have no idea about the grading system in America or Canada but how should I read/understand a 2200 level? I suppose they are not comparable to ELO points?

TTR and USATT are both similar ELO:
TTR: P_A = 1 / (1 + 10^((TTR_B - TTR_A)/150)), points in case of win (1 - P_A) * K, K = 16 for most players
So winning/losing against someone with the same rating results in +8 or -8 TTR points. Winning against someone way better = +16, losing against someone with a way lower rating = -16.
USATT: Similar to TTR. If the point spread is close (0 to 12 USATT points) than a win/loss also results in +8 or -8 USATT points but for higher point spreads the players can gain/lose up to 50 points https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings

 

[NextLevel]

Everything's possible in TT
Eugenes namesake Evgueni Chtchetinine 1) won against Mossily a couple of days ago 11:5 11:0 11:3 2)
Chtchetinine's TTR is currently 2305 but he peaked at 2531 in 2006 3). Mossily TTR = 2147, peak TTR 2195 in 2019.
In the same match Chtchetinine beat František Krčil 4) 11:5 11:7 11:3.
That's btw the same league in Germany where Seth Pech is playing
https://www.mytischtennis.de/clickt...a-Sued/gruppe/444835/mannschaftsmeldungen/rr/

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgueni_Chtchetinine
2) https://www.mytischtennis.de/clickt...14151481/TTC-Kist-vs-TV-1879-Hilpoltstein-II/
3) Timo Boll's TTR was 2663 at that time in 2006
4) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/František_Krčil current TTR = 2172, peak TTR = 2365 in 2014



TTR and USATT are both similar ELO:
TTR: P_A = 1 / (1 + 10^((TTR_B - TTR_A)/150)), points in case of win (1 - P_A) * K, K = 16 for most players
So winning/losing against someone with the same rating results in +8 or -8 TTR points. Winning against someone way better = +16, losing against someone with a way lower rating = -16.
USATT: Similar to TTR. If the point spread is close (0 to 12 USATT points) than a win/loss also results in +8 or -8 USATT points but for higher point spreads the players can gain/lose up to 50 points https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings

USATT is similar to TTR + 300 to 400 points. Not a precise science but that helps.

Canada (which is where the original video match is played) is a completely different animal.

 

[Jslick89]

U do not have government giving free facilities for a TT club to use for operations...

... and since the leftist who run nearly every one of USA cities of .5 million or larger (and run the entre Bay Are)... these leftists make government legislation that makes it cost prohibitive to make new housing or building that is affordable... and when you get moar and moar people and not much new buildings, the price of everything goes up.

Even my metro area of 3 million people cannot have a full time club... the cost to lease and operate a suitable space is simply too much.

In these USA cities... to run a club, leased space costs $2 a month per square foot... so a suitable sized space to run 16+ tables is easily $20K a month. Then there are other fixed and variable expenses such as insurance, utilities, security, janitorial, govt reg compliance, maintenance, staff...

To run such a place, you need 150 members paying $75 or so a month... then you need 100 kids or adults training every week with the coaches... 70%+ of revenue must be from coaching or the financial weight of the club will crush itself.

Clubs close all the time simply because they cannot attract enough members and people to take lessons.

In the Sac metro area where I live, almost the entire TT playing population are direct descendants of Ebeneezer Scrooge. They simply want to play for free or damned next to it and damn it if that means you can only set up tables once a week at a community center and pay $5 USD to meet the near free expenses.

I do not think that even 12 adults are actively training and paying someone to teach them TT in my 3 Million Sac metro area...

I coach at a Cali university TT club and I get paid zero, like zero and I pay huge gasoline money to get to the uni and pay $8 USD to park the car every time i go to the uni to help out.

This is a reality in urban USA.

Of course in the rural areas, costs are much lower... but even if you flashed a big neon sign advertising FREE BEERZ and live cheerleaders, you would not get more than 20 people in your TT club each month. No one wants to pay to play TT when they can bunt the ball in their basements, giggle, then drink a beer.

That is crazy that the university doesn't at least give you a parking pass for coaching their team. or a food court stipend? lol. Meanwhile the president is banking half a mil a year easily. yikes.

BTW- how long is the college table tennis season? i'd love to go out and give those boys a run for their money some time.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

what it might mean if he played on tour.

play on tour? is there such vocab in Canada?

 

[NextLevel]

play on tour? is there such vocab in Canada?

Kanak plays on tour, no? Just about all the people that Edward beat in the tournament play league somewhere in Europe, I was really surprised that Edward beat some of those players - I was thinking it didn't add up but it was a great performance for a Canadian citizen not obviously imported from another country to be beating pros who no matter what you think of their level have been pros for a bit.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Kanak plays on tour, no? Just about all the people that Edward beat in the tournament play league somewhere in Europe, I was really surprised that Edward beat some of those players - I was thinking it didn't add up but it was a great performance for a Canadian citizen not obviously imported from another country to be beating pros who no matter what you think of their level have been pros for a bit.

other than Eugene and Zhang Mo... who else plays on tour from Canada?
ratio of USA to Canadian on Tour is maybe 10 to 1?

 

[NextLevel]

other than Eugene and Zhang Mo... who else plays on tour from Canada?
ratio of USA to Canadian on Tour is maybe 10 to 1?

The Canadian girls and boys do play on tour and in American/Panamerican events. Edward Ly was almost definitely one of them, this result is just a huge jump compared to the past.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Eugene vs WCQ

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The Canadian girls and boys do play on tour and in American/Panamerican events. Edward Ly was almost definitely one of them, this result is just a huge jump compared to the past.

well, looking at https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/eugene-vs-2200-player.32777/page-4#post-440629
Edward only pretty much played on turn from H2 2023.
I don't view continental as "tours", since some countries only play continental and 1 or 2 local international opens, and that is it.
Lets just hope they get more tours and are not self funded ones

 

[Der_Echte]

That is crazy that the university doesn't at least give you a parking pass for coaching their team. or a food court stipend? lol. Meanwhile the president is banking half a mil a year easily. yikes.

BTW- how long is the college table tennis season? i'd love to go out and give those boys a run for their money some time.

@J-Slick

To be fair, even their paid staff must pay $8 each time to use that parking lot.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

supply and demand. so many good players in China or Japan that are skilled enough to become coaches. and its a popular sport. The affluent don't all play golf but are ready to spend some money on TT.

Actually my current coach is having a hard time and looking for a new job / stint in a foreign pro league if anyone can help

 

[Dominikk85]

Why is it so expensive in america, but not other countries?

In Germany you only really have to pay a monthly Club fee of maybe 10 bucks or so.

Adult players usually train more by themselves (unless they play a high league) but youth players get free group training like twice a week. You do that for 2-3 years or so and when you are good enough you can get selected for a regional selection where you get more frequent and better training which is paid for the the federation. They also get additional training by the club if they are playing for a high level club (bundesliga).

Of course if you want a private coach you have to pay for it too but you can get good training without paying for it if you are really talented as a 10-12 year old or so.

There is still costs of course like travel to tournaments and after school of course you have to pay for your living but the training part mostly gets covered by the club/federation.

 

[dingyibvs]

Eugene vs WCQ

Let's get to the important part, it looks like he's using a W968 with BS H3 on the FH and OS on the BH

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

In Germany you only really have to pay a monthly Club fee of maybe 10 bucks or so.

Adult players usually train more by themselves (unless they play a high league) but youth players get free group training like twice a week. You do that for 2-3 years or so and when you are good enough you can get selected for a regional selection where you get more frequent and better training which is paid for the the federation. They also get additional training by the club if they are playing for a high level club (bundesliga).

Of course if you want a private coach you have to pay for it too but you can get good training without paying for it if you are really talented as a 10-12 year old or so.

There is still costs of course like travel to tournaments and after school of course you have to pay for your living but the training part mostly gets covered by the club/federation.

well, you can't really compare "group training" with "1-1 training"
USA is known for its 1-1 training, and probably the only club that has group training has closed its doors (Samson Dubina TT Academy)

So many USA players come to Taiwan, due to its group training structure - where you get to train with different styles (left and right handed) in a short period of time.

Problem with 1-1, the player gets used to the coach, and no one else.

Group training has a lower cost structure, while 1-1 does exist in Asia too, but are secondary and not primary like in the USA.

 

[Metaxa]

TTR and USATT are both similar ELO:
TTR: P_A = 1 / (1 + 10^((TTR_B - TTR_A)/150)), points in case of win (1 - P_A) * K, K = 16 for most players
So winning/losing against someone with the same rating results in +8 or -8 TTR points. Winning against someone way better = +16, losing against someone with a way lower rating = -16.
USATT: Similar to TTR. If the point spread is close (0 to 12 USATT points) than a win/loss also results in +8 or -8 USATT points but for higher point spreads the players can gain/lose up to 50 points https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings

Mmmm, Indeed, it looks like the ELO calculation: ELO-rating.
Thank you very much for your explanation.
About above 2200-player. I am very disappointed in his ability. He does not give any signal of his level of what he should perform according to his ranking. If I compare our best player (ELO-2340) from my previous club and country with this 2200 player, I don't give the latter any chance against him and it will more than likely be 3 times less than 11-4. To be clear, I do have to admit that this ELO-2340 player is among the top 130 in his country without any training and competition at his level, because he is now a veteran over 50 years old and no longer has any ambition.