had an interesting practise match today

[doppelmoral]

hi ,

I had a really interesting match yesterday in my club. I was doing practise with one guy who has more experience than me but is technically alot worse than me (note: only technically! he wins vs me)

he can loop well on FH but on BH he tries but fails everytime. I practised alot lately, using 5ply wood with 2x vega pro. my loops are so safe, consistent, I put most shots on the table with good, solid spin. but they still feel weak and slow

During the match, I flipped basically all his short serves and looped his long serves, and he always just answered with punching my slow and spinny loop. needless to say, I couldnt return his punches (his shots had no spin but so fast). also, when I looped multiple times he just blocked them back or did a counter

What would be the next step for me as a low intermediate looper? focus more on placement, or start switching over to fast, aggressive loops rather than slow, but spinny safe loops?

Just curious if anyone made similar experiences. On a side note, when I used an innerforce blade, I made more mistakes but my loops where sooo much harder to return for my opponents. I dont know what I prefer

Cheers

 

[JJ Ng]

hi ,

I had a really interesting match yesterday in my club. I was doing practise with one guy who has more experience than me but is technically alot worse than me (note: only technically! he wins vs me)

he can loop well on FH but on BH he tries but fails everytime. I practised alot lately, using 5ply wood with 2x vega pro. my loops are so safe, consistent, I put most shots on the table with good, solid spin. but they still feel weak and slow

During the match, I flipped basically all his short serves and looped his long serves, and he always just answered with punching my slow and spinny loop. needless to say, I couldnt return his punches (his shots had no spin but so fast). also, when I looped multiple times he just blocked them back or did a counter

What would be the next step for me as a low intermediate looper? focus more on placement, or start switching over to fast, aggressive loops rather than slow, but spinny safe loops?

Just curious if anyone made similar experiences. On a side note, when I used an innerforce blade, I made more mistakes but my loops where sooo much harder to return for my opponents. I dont know what I prefer

Cheers

The dirty little secret that no one has told you yet: hurricane....boosted....

On a more serious note, I think 5-ply wood is the way to go for any player to learn how to play ping pong and how to loop. Xiom Vega Pro is a good rubber. It is like a toned down version of Tenergy 05 and has a lot of control. There is nothing wrong with your set up.

I am confused here. You said you slipped all his short serves and looped all his long serves. If so, how were you not able to loop his punches? Do his punches have a lot of backspins? If it is fast and no spin, or fast with little bit of backspin, then it is hard to loop it.

My advice is not to chase results over your progress. If you are able flip all his short serves and loop all his long serves, then that is a great start! Keep on doing that. You need to be consistent. If you want to win against him right away, then here are a few of my thoughts:

1) Always more consistent than fast. At your stage of development, the key is can you develop your "touch" for the ball. Develop your "feel" for the game. Once you develop the touch and feel, you can speed it up later. It sounds like your opponent has no touch or feel for the game, hence missing all the backhand loops.

2) Yes, keep on working on your stable, spinny loops and yes, placement is then the issue. I have a feeling he is getting too comfortable with your loops. You should vary looping back to his backhand v.s. his forehand v.s. his elbow. Also can you do high, very spinny loops v.s. lower arcing loops? If you can do vary those, you can also mess up his timing.

3) You don't have to loop everything. Sometimes it is good to do a heavy backspin push return of his serve. Meaning, playing passive does not mean you are losing the initiative. If you look at good players play, their goal is to keep you off balanced. So the same serve you do, they can return it with no spin, heavy backspin, top spin and then long or short on your side of the table, and then to your forehand v.s. backhand v.s. the elbow.

4) After you return his serve by flipping or looping, immediately take 2-3 steps back way from the table. Since all you do is flipping and looping back with topspin AND all he does is blocking it back heavy and fast, what else do you expect? You need to return his serve and then immediately take 2-3 steps away from the table so you can loop his fast blocks.

Finally, if you really want to develop a heavy forehand loop, yes, hurricane is the way to go later on.

 

[longrange]

hi ,

I had a really interesting match yesterday in my club. I was doing practise with one guy who has more experience than me but is technically alot worse than me (note: only technically! he wins vs me)

he can loop well on FH but on BH he tries but fails everytime. I practised alot lately, using 5ply wood with 2x vega pro. my loops are so safe, consistent, I put most shots on the table with good, solid spin. but they still feel weak and slow

During the match, I flipped basically all his short serves and looped his long serves, and he always just answered with punching my slow and spinny loop. needless to say, I couldnt return his punches (his shots had no spin but so fast). also, when I looped multiple times he just blocked them back or did a counter

What would be the next step for me as a low intermediate looper? focus more on placement, or start switching over to fast, aggressive loops rather than slow, but spinny safe loops?

Just curious if anyone made similar experiences. On a side note, when I used an innerforce blade, I made more mistakes but my loops where sooo much harder to return for my opponents. I dont know what I prefer

Cheers

Some players will always be just better than you. "Slow spinny loops" are easily punched through and counterlooped if they are high and convenient. So, if you want to continue with this kind of game, you gotta work on inconvenient placement (depends on the player: may be middle, may be forehand), and lower over the net trajectory. This works against me at least.

 

[jk1980]

It would be interesting to see a video of the situation. If I loop the opportunity usually struggles to smash it. Either it goes to the net because it is too fast for the opponent to deliver a correct stroke or it flies well over the table due to the topspin catapulting the ball upwards.

There are some players that can smash loops due to their playstyle like Björn Baumann, but he js a beast in that regard... he either blocks with backhand or smashes everything with forehand

 

[mocker88]

Yep. Chinese harder rubbers could help, if you got the technique.

I would say that you have to keep the low spinny loops very low over the net, so he can't punch it so easy.
Or just go for more aggressive, harder loops with better placement, so he get a bit uncomfortable and out of position.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

This post is a reminder to all; an amateur will be an amateur irregardless of the equipment they use just like Newton's Law of motion: all object shall remain constant unless an external forces alters it or something like that ( I'm no scientist okay! )

So, use whatever you feel like it, slow / fast? It does not matter, one will still sucks at it. Better to use something that makes you feel happy; someting Gozo(tm) perhaps.

 

[gordonluvsu]

Things that helped me beat a player similar to what u described:

1. More dangerous loops:
- low, long near the line and loaded with spin
- fast killer loops when the ball pops up higher
- placing loops near the corners
- making sure he gets uncomfortable with your attacks in general
- forcing weaker returns

2. Getting advantages from over the table:
- getting points right away through pushes and serves
- pendulum serve into 3rd ball attack
- pushing in a way that makes him attack without much quality
- create opportunities for yourself before the attacking starts

3. General advice: Make him uncomfortable
- figure out what your opponents weaknesses are and put pressure ( quite obvious, but still important to keep in mind)
- some people really like slow spinny loops, some cant handle an empty ball to forehand
- some people can hit anything from anywhere on the table while missing balls right in front of them
- some people flip your mega spin serve and cant hit a simple long serve to backhand


if you faced a certain issue, a pro probably did as well
I once lost miserably against a blocker and felt clueless,
after some time i wanted a solution: so i watched some games against samsonov and figured how to he was beaten, that helped

train a lot, train purposefully, be creative in training, learn from pros, learn from yourself

 

[Fedex78]

I've direct experience here. I'm intermediate/advanced- two wings looper.

With 40+ balls, nice loops even loaded with spin (low or high on the net) and arriving from a 5 ply plus Vega pro don't create problems to any good blocker in the earth.

You need to speed up your racket and improve your technique to handle the new more demanding setup.

So choose a fast 7 ply wood / inner carbon / outer carbon with good control and feel, buy a modern fast 47.5°/50° tensor rubber or a fast hybrid rubber or a H3 Neo boosted all max for your FH, a 42,5° or 45° tensor for your bh (best max but even 2.0 is fine here) and start training how to be consistent and explode your shots with this setup.

After that, you'll play this guy and he will have serious trouble in punch blocking your loops. Of course you have to apply all the literature here, varying the shots and placements etc... but your ball will be HEAVY.

Maybe you'll thank me later.

 

[SamTheMan]

Without seeing you play, I say keep your current setup. What you loose in speed, you gain in confidence. With that confidence you can hit and accelerate harder and get some real winners.

I too play with emphasize on consistency and not on dangerous winners. I have been to the same situation as you. As others have mentioned I think the key is to get some depth to your shots. Get them long to the end of the table, close to the white line. Vary placement, but also speed and spin. If you play the same spin on every shot it will be easy for your opponent. By mixing some low spin balls you will get some errors from your opponent.

 

[NextLevel]

hi ,

I had a really interesting match yesterday in my club. I was doing practise with one guy who has more experience than me but is technically alot worse than me (note: only technically! he wins vs me)

he can loop well on FH but on BH he tries but fails everytime. I practised alot lately, using 5ply wood with 2x vega pro. my loops are so safe, consistent, I put most shots on the table with good, solid spin. but they still feel weak and slow

During the match, I flipped basically all his short serves and looped his long serves, and he always just answered with punching my slow and spinny loop. needless to say, I couldnt return his punches (his shots had no spin but so fast). also, when I looped multiple times he just blocked them back or did a counter

What would be the next step for me as a low intermediate looper? focus more on placement, or start switching over to fast, aggressive loops rather than slow, but spinny safe loops?

Just curious if anyone made similar experiences. On a side note, when I used an innerforce blade, I made more mistakes but my loops where sooo much harder to return for my opponents. I dont know what I prefer

Cheers

Without seeing you play, I suspect the issue is that your game speed and spin level are not causing the opponent problems. Just continue to work on increasing the spin you can give the ball - reduce the speed and make the spin as heavy as possible, sometimes by serving heavier backspin to get a heavier push, sometimes by using more apin oriented stroke planes and wrist action. This will give you more options for scoring and also unless you are playing at a high level where this stuff stops mattering and players can control everything, you will have a reliable way to beat players below a certain level.

 

[z0uLess]

maybe you are not focused enough on keeping your ball low to the net

 

[NextLevel]

maybe you are not focused enough on keeping your ball low to the net

This is not as big a deal as many people are making out, my spins tend to be high to the net and I doubt most people here could smash them consistently, it takes a certain level of player to smash heavy spin if it is really heavy, even if the ball is high, because being high can sometimes bait you to take the ball higher, and it is harder to smash heavy spin if you are not on top of the ball which is harder when you take the ball higher. The ball also messes with your mind when it is really slow and heavy, as it is like a magic trick, it takes some time to believe that a ball moving so slowly is really as heavy as it is, so most people try to soft block it with an open racket angle and this sends the ball sky high. Smashing it also requires precise timing, so many people send it long.

Obviously when playing players who can attack almost anything relative to your spin level, it doesn't matter. That said, most players using European rubber will struggle to give the ball high topspin and keep the ball low to the net. So it is better to just focus on giving the ball high topspin and forget about the height for now, keeping it extremely short or extremely deep regardless of height should be the priority. Making the ball heavy often means compromising on speed to a very extreme extent and this is fine.

 

[Doum]

Ball placement and consistency is king. If you play wide to his BH he will have a hard time to punch. Aiming to corners or down the line will earn you more points than just speed.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

hi ,

I had a really interesting match yesterday in my club. I was doing practise with one guy who has more experience than me but is technically alot worse than me (note: only technically! he wins vs me)

he can loop well on FH but on BH he tries but fails everytime. I practised alot lately, using 5ply wood with 2x vega pro. my loops are so safe, consistent, I put most shots on the table with good, solid spin. but they still feel weak and slow

During the match, I flipped basically all his short serves and looped his long serves, and he always just answered with punching my slow and spinny loop. needless to say, I couldnt return his punches (his shots had no spin but so fast). also, when I looped multiple times he just blocked them back or did a counter

What would be the next step for me as a low intermediate looper? focus more on placement, or start switching over to fast, aggressive loops rather than slow, but spinny safe loops?

Just curious if anyone made similar experiences. On a side note, when I used an innerforce blade, I made more mistakes but my loops where sooo much harder to return for my opponents. I dont know what I prefer

Cheers

HI Doppel
I think maybe you need to think more logically about what constitutes a quality winning shot.
remember:
spin is enjoyable to learn and to play
but
speed and placement are king I winning shots
this is because while steady safe spin puts the ball on the table, it does not put the ball out of reach of your opponent.

on the other hand appropriate speed and intelligent placement will enable you to manoeuvre your opponent and also drive past him.

You should think of your topspin as something that provides a safe arc to your fast attack and placement.
From your description it seems that your opponent technique is superior because it has aggressive intent whereas your too safe approach is playing into his hands.
However you can turn yr consistent topspin to good effect by using it to develop some consistent FAST ATTACK
good luck

 

[Topspinslinger]

everyone is so eager to say change equipment, i think that could help. But i'd say stick to it. against a punch type player taking the ball late makes their punches less strong. You are saying you are consistent, that makes you a strong player. Perhaps a faster all wood blade might help, Infinity VPS or Nittaku 5 ply blade. Those have enough speed and great feeling. Overall i'd say stick to Vega pro, You are getting good results with it.

 

[blahness]

Vega pro sucks lol, if you really want to get into the real crazy spin loops you need to go to Dignics or boosted Hurricane, they will make you a king of spin.

And 5ply wood sucks too, just get some innerforce blade and learn to control it. You'll get a lot more oomph in your shots.

The other very important thing is knowledge to vary amount of spin on loops, if your loops suddenly have less spin, more spin and with different sidespin ratios it'll drive them crazy. I have fake loops on my BH (that pretty much have no spin) that I throw in to keep them guessing.

Also attack the wide FH and middle, BH is where they can punch easily.

 

[Dr Evil]

What would be the next step for me as a low intermediate looper? focus more on placement, or start switching over to fast, aggressive loops rather than slow, but spinny safe loops?

Focus on placement! If this opponent is punching all your loops and flips past you, you're either playing Mima Ito or someone who knows exactly where you're going every time. Learn to win with variation of placement, trajectory and spin and your game will level up.

 

[TareqPhoto]

From the lines in your post you mentioned something about his bad BH looping, well, focus on that place then, make him use his BH more so he can't be in advantage to you, send short and long balls more to his BH side, chop and then loop to change the style to him so you can have that kind of "comfort" zone, i played with many players of all levels, most of the time if i never win at least i try to give some balls that they can't do anything to and still i lose, so find out those balls that are difficult to your opponent and try to give more of that, if you are losing no matter what then lose with difficulties anyway, you don't know, you might win also.

 

[Fedex78]

Vega pro sucks lol, if you really want to get into the real crazy spin loops you need to go to Dignics or boosted Hurricane, they will make you a king of spin.

And 5ply wood sucks too, just get some innerforce blade and learn to control it. You'll get a lot more oomph in your shots.

The other very important thing is knowledge to vary amount of spin on loops, if your loops suddenly have less spin, more spin and with different sidespin ratios it'll drive them crazy. I have fake loops on my BH (that pretty much have no spin) that I throw in to keep them guessing.

Also attack the wide FH and middle, BH is where they can punch easily.

Very well said 👌

 

[z0uLess]

This is not as big a deal as many people are making out, my spins tend to be high to the net and I doubt most people here could smash them consistently, it takes a certain level of player to smash heavy spin if it is really heavy, even if the ball is high, because being high can sometimes bait you to take the ball higher, and it is harder to smash heavy spin if you are not on top of the ball which is harder when you take the ball higher. The ball also messes with your mind when it is really slow and heavy, as it is like a magic trick, it takes some time to believe that a ball moving so slowly is really as heavy as it is, so most people try to soft block it with an open racket angle and this sends the ball sky high. Smashing it also requires precise timing, so many people send it long.

Obviously when playing players who can attack almost anything relative to your spin level, it doesn't matter. That said, most players using European rubber will struggle to give the ball high topspin and keep the ball low to the net. So it is better to just focus on giving the ball high topspin and forget about the height for now, keeping it extremely short or extremely deep regardless of height should be the priority. Making the ball heavy often means compromising on speed to a very extreme extent and this is fine.

Yea, this comes back to the different types of approaches to learning table tennis with euro and chinese rubbers, which is a very interesting topic in terms of your relationship with your coach as well and something I am writing a separate post about right now since we have a bunch of hybrids on the market recently. And, nospin hobby players will smash those, which might also put a cap on your development since you are not able to play with players that play with cheap rackets.