Help choosing a custom racket

[TareqPhoto]

I will be willing to cut Tareq a break. English is not his native languange. As good as I am in Korean and German, I will not do EVERYTHING exactly same way as native.

The comment about "Me? Tirade?" was directed at Carl as a joke. He understands that humor.

The comment about taking a lot of pics about what you decide was directed at you. TT forum people LOVE to see someone enjoy their chosen equipment and eventually you will decide on something. I was asking for you to take a lot of pics to share with everyone here. we all do that with something we like.

Ah ok, cool, i like to take pics because i do photography as my first or main hobby anyway, so this is not difficult to do when i will get something, i apologize, i thought you asked me to pot pics because i thought you think i want to show off, not a problem.

Now, if i decide on which blade and rubber, should i do the custom by myself or i ask that coach to do it for me? I don't want to screw up doing it myself and ant it to be done properly or professionally if necessary.

 

[NextLevel]

I love this thread.

Der Echte,

I hear your opinion on the need for coaching. However, I disagree with your choice of example. IMO, kids can use anything and their feel and lack of power enables them to get dip with equipment that is too fast for adults.

As for adults, I strongly disagree. Adults can get coached with anything but you need to be able to swing at the ball to get better. You also need to be able to block. For players close to the table starting out, a slower blade helps. Looping has more arc even if slow. Blocking has more control. Instinctive shots and spins to mess up the opponent also have more control. Feel is better. And most importantly, they are not locked into a predetermined style.

My initial setups locked me into a blocking style as I used fast blades and very fast blades with soft or medium rubbers. Surprisingly, I alternated between those and an oversized balsa blade that was defensive and with which I had my best results. My game got better when I downgraded speed for a period which made me more confident swinging at the ball.

The key issue with fast equipment is not so much that it is bad for you, but that equipment that is not all round in nature strongly influences how you are going to play. And this choice should ideally be made by you, not the equipment per se.

 

[Der_Echte]

seconded, a beautiful bat is a beautiful bat
@der_echte thank you for the kind message . I've come out of my bunker due to a promise of no Ariel bombardments (especially from the ionosphere that's what the whole space race was about right?)
now on topic.
especially if you decide in the end to go for a timo based one, they make me more happy then errm, a piece of wood should??
you seem determined to get the best of the best so just make sure to make us all as jealous as possible! and enjoy!

Going off topic or hijacking is an Art, and like Carl says, if you do it, (heck we tend to do it a LOT) Carl sez you gotta be funny (or I say at least original) and pass the mustard, like you were on the Old Grey Whistle Test. I'd say you did well.

 

[Der_Echte]

I dont really base my opinion of "Fast" by only the top end possible speed of a ball, really for me the biggest factor is how QUICKLY the ball leaves the bat (many of us call that dwell) and for a topspinning wannabe player like me, that is a lot more important and directly affects my ability to spin the ball. There is also what "Low" or "Medium" gear it has on opening topspins and continuous topspins. The performance in those areas are crucial to a flexible attacking topspin player, much more than the top end speed which players use to assign a speed rating. The ability to finish with strong top spin and Fast pace on powerloops is also a consideration.

Some TT forumer reviewers from MyTT have labled the new Nexy Kanaph as OFF to OFF+... and I gotta agree the top end is in that territory that even Non-Pundits would scream Bloody Murder way too "Fast" for a developing player... yet I used it an entire tourney as a flexible attacking top spin player (Until I played way too many matches at full speed and not much to chance to sit and rest and the waist was well worn hehe) and could topspin and get my opener blocked out and long. (And land the shot high percentage (If I wasn't to tired to bend low with waist) ) ... and i am far from a complete player who has mastered all the fundamentals, far from it.

I call that firsthand proof that a blade most everyone agrees is "Fast" or "Very Fast" (on top end) can still perform acceptably well or admirable or at least be suitable in what an allround offensive top spin player craves - Opening spins, Continuos top spin (for pressure) and Fast Loops. What is even more remarkable is I did my famous modification to this blade to make it even more heavy, solid and higher top end... and there are not many more solid blades like that on the market... and still tospin the ball well. After my mod to the Kanaph, Der_Echte might be the only one who still thinks it is fit to play such a flexible varied topspin game.

Let's look at another blade many forumers have used... the Yinhe / Galaxy T-7 blade, which is rated "Medium" or OFF Minus tops. As much a macho heavy topspin player I wanna be, I absolutely could NOT play quality topspins with high percentage using T-7... no matter how soft a rubber I used, even 35 degree Quattro sponge on a good reliable topsheet like 999... I still couldn't open with any consistency. WHY? The ball left the bat to damn quickly for me to accellerate and use the sponge. I traded away that sucker the first month.

I agree with you that many players select a bat that is too fast for them to optimally play the classic flexible offensive top spin game as a developing player and as they learn and grow, they rely on more solid struck balls. Well, that is also an old-school Pundit style of play as well, hit through everything and learn how to generate pace and placement to win points instead of pure heavy spin.

My point in all this is that we all have different definaitions and criteria for what we consider to be "Fast" and I might be the oddball who would call a medium speed blade "Way too Fast" while I call something that might give pundits kiniption fits "just right" or "Suitable".

 

[Der_Echte]

Maybe a lot of what I posted belongs in my "Equipment Review" thread I made, but that's OK, I am ready to talk Table Tennis anywhere, anytime.

 

[NextLevel]

Der_Echte,

We 100% agree - as I argued with a famous intellectual table tennis forummer who shall remain nameless for now on the other forum, the feedback/dwell of the blade is more important than the blade speed for me and while there is a good correlation between speed and dwell, sometimes, blade design can trump that. Someone gave the example of the Innerforce ZLC (OFF) giving more feedback than a DEF Dr Neubauer balsa blade (I forget which one). I've found from experience that Carbon just doesn't do it for me. The feeling of what happens when I hit the ball hard matters.

 

[Der_Echte]

Now NL, I have always at every level I played been able to block, often the shot is more developed than my overall level. I have used all manner of blades along the lines of flex, stiff, speed, and feedback ranges.

I gotta agree with what Carl said earlier (and with what I think you mentioned in this or a different thread on some forum on this planet) that what feels right might not necesarily be the "Best" performing blade for you. That applies to blocking as well and it is a trap many new players fall into, they select a super duper rocket blade that works great on "Block 'n Hope" and Drives, but isn't the easiest thing to do much else with.

I am focusing on blocking here. Classically (like you mention) a lot of players LOVE the feel of a solid, direct, FAST blade in blocking. Maybe they like it, because with a semi-firm strong deathgrip on the bat, all they gotta do is stick it out there at the right angle and watch their opponent instantly be under pressure if the direction of the block was anywhere near an effective placement. A player who players vs higher level more consistent and quality top spinner types likes the performance of blocking in that situation. Generally, such a player doesn't get coaching, but even if they do, usually the player doesn't learn about variations of hand pressure at impact and feel of the ball. So really, until a player is taught that or somehow reads TTD and learns for him/herself, they stick with what they like.

A blade with a little more vibration and less speed vs a hard struck (or heavily spun) ball is a little easier to perform this "touch" block (use light pressure on grip on impact) and gives a little more room for error. One can still do the same block using a Schlager Carbon, but it is easier with Stiga Allround Classic or Evolution class of blade.

The same player suddenly using the "right" equipment for this kind of blocking suddenly doesn't like its performance on his favorite block when he just sticks out the bat and lets it rebound. All the player really needs to do is get close to the ball, have firm grip on bat and give just a little push forward, I mean just a little. He would get the same fast block out of the deal and probably be better on balance and have a better chance to place the ball to a difficult zone.

I can take my "Der_Echte Special" All+ blade and play a mean blocking game using that thing, blocking is all about understanding (and performing) getting up to the ball and using hand presure and possibly a little push (punch).

 

[Der_Echte]

Two conclusions from equipment selection one should strongly consider are...

1) How destructive the setup is to your opponents with the game you play now.

That may or may not (Usually NOT) be the same equipment you currently use. Often, like Carl and NL often point out, we select equipment that makes us feel good, whether it is suitable or not. We might THINK we are playing best using what we use, but until we use something else (hopefully under some competent supervision like in Carl's example) we don't realize it yet.

2) How destructive to opponents the setup will be in the future as you grow/learn

#2 should be the biggest consideration, but it is difficult for us to determine this by ourselves, sometimes competent players mess it up. I will surely be in the mix of sometimes being wrong for a certain player on this. that is why a pundit will recommend middle of the road equipment that isn't fast but has control. Such a setup allows a player to be able to do every shot, but not magnificantly, yet such a thing is needed to grow ones game. The equipemnt must be SUITABLE and capable of performing all the shots while you learn and grow.

There is just an eternal debate over exactly what that is. I often say the possible range is very wide in modern day.

However, too often, players do not consider #2 or they have a poor understanding of what it is.

 

[Der_Echte]

Der_Echte,

We 100% agree - as I argued with a famous intellectual table tennis forummer who shall remain nameless for now on the other forum, the feedback/dwell of the blade is more important than the blade speed for me and while there is a good correlation between speed and dwell, sometimes, blade design can trump that. Someone gave the example of the Innerforce ZLC (OFF) giving more feedback than a DEF Dr Neubauer balsa blade (I forget which one). I've found from experience that Carbon just doesn't do it for me. The feeling of what happens when I hit the ball hard matters.

Haha NL, the one vid I saw of you on MyTT playing... you seem to value solid impact shots and generate pace (and heavy spin) to win points. Remind me this spring when I invade your westchester club to bring a digicam and make you move around. Putting hte ball in your effective strike zone or right into your power zone is asking you to punish the ball.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Sometimes when i feel i can't hit or loop and topspin much enough then i go with blocking strategy, i try to make my opponents doing mistakes more than i do, sometimes it becoming boring by rallying together without trying something creative or each is scared to make a fault.

Honestly speaking, in the past i remember that most of my mistakes are getting the ball in the net more than getting it out of the table, so sometimes i just give that high loop or high spin so i can have time to prepare and return or block and it worked sometimes, but i always try to understand my opponent movements or style so i can think of a way to challenge him or win when possible, but i know i am not the best always, and really sometimes i play like a super hero and another day whatever i do i can't win or play good at all, but i know that i am able to play sometimes if i need to and be serious about it.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Haha NL, the one vid I saw of you on MyTT playing... you seem to value solid impact shots and generate pace (and heavy spin) to win points. Remind me this spring when I invade your westchester club to bring a digicam and make you move around. Putting hte ball in your effective strike zone or right into your power zone is asking you to punish the ball.

Where is the vid?

 

[Der_Echte]

Tareq, it is a vid he posted about himself at MyTableTennis.net TT forum.

A lot of us post on more than one forum, some several forums and some of us know each other form the forums, sometimes we know each other personally.

I cant remember which thread NL posted that link,maybe you can ask NL to post the link of the vid I saw vs a 2000-2100 Chinese Penhold opponent but I do remember another vid from his "Breaking 2000" thread. Maybe the vid is from one of his many "Guess the Rating" threads he made.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Tareq, it is a vid he posted about himself at MyTableTennis.net TT forum.

A lot of us post on more than one forum, some several forums and some of us know each other form the forums, sometimes we know each other personally.

I cant remember which thread NL posted that link,maybe you can ask NL to post the link of the vid I saw vs a 2000-2100 Chinese Penhold opponent but I do remember another vid from his "Breaking 2000" thread. Maybe the vid is from one of his many "Guess the Rating" threads he made.

Ah ok, he already read this thread so if he willing to post that vid he will, i will check out that site and see if i can find it or anything else.

So what about you? any vid of you playing?

 

[NextLevel]

That's the video Der_Echte was referring to.

 

[TareqPhoto]

That's the video Der_Echte was referring to.

Interesting, thank you very much!!!

 

[NextLevel]

Haha NL, the one vid I saw of you on MyTT playing... you seem to value solid impact shots and generate pace (and heavy spin) to win points. Remind me this spring when I invade your westchester club to bring a digicam and make you move around. Putting hte ball in your effective strike zone or right into your power zone is asking you to punish the ball.

This is true, but solid impact to the degree I do it now started with Big Dipper - before that, I was a brush looper to the T with Tenergy 05, but mostly drove the ball flat. Big Dipper just encouraged me to rip the ball with spin, which in many cases was even better.

Westchester is not my home club though - I am in the land of brotherly love and visit Westchester when the Monday permits as I lose the whole day whenever I travel that far. But please, let's dispense of all these ungentlemanly things like moving people around or playing to their elbows and such. We need to have a straight forehand shootout or in this case, BH shoot out. I still consider myself the original BH Man. I have the video to prove it too. Even today, I still use my BH on the forehand side(lol). Classic table tennis, NL-style.

 

[Der_Echte]

Ah ok, he already read this thread so if he willing to post that vid he will, i will check out that site and see if i can find it or anything else.

So what about you? any vid of you playing?

NL posted the link of the vid I was talking about.

I can post the vid where I made my first ever OPEN FINAL in a sanctioned USA tourney, but I wasn't gunna win it, my opponent was tow levels better and I already did 14 matches and little chance to sit down. I was out of energy on my wiast, I couldn't dip down to use legs/waist... The waist was too wore out.

Still, I was competitive and actually made the finals of the Open and that counts for a lot.

 

[Der_Echte]

The thread I made over at MyTT is this one... appropriately titled "Anyone want some ratings points?"

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69614&PN=2&title=anyone-want-some-ratings-points

Tell that worthless BH-Man he is all washed up.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Nothing against you Der_Echte, I think you are making some valid points about more dwell time, faster/slower blades, and your points about blocking are great. But I think those comments may miss the point about why the OP and many newer players like those faster blades.

When you take a full swing and blast the ball against someone who is giving you block or drive level spin, and not trying to mess you up, those faster blades have this great, crisp snap that makes you want to blast the ball over and over. It feels much more enticing than the dull, soft crunch or worse, thud, of most Off- or All+ blades. It feels great to smack the hell out of he ball. It feels better with an ALC than with a Primorac Off-. Much better.

But those blades do make you want to keep crushing the ball with drive contact so you keep getting that snap on each hit.

I remember giving one of my faster blades to a friend to hit, way back when I was starting, he hit with it for 3 min and gave it back. He said it was good but that he did not want to use it any more because it made him just want to hit and he needed to work on loop contact.

That feeling of a good smack where you crush the ball is addictive and can keep a lower level player from finding what happens when you brush and dig into the ball so that you get a powerful loop instead of a drive.

That being said, if this is about the sport growing, someone who has not figured that stuff out, and wants an Off ALC blade, they are fun. They feel great. They will make him want to play more.

Of the blades Tareq has picked I would say he really could throw a dart at the wall and whichever one he hits would be fine. Of the ones he chose I would say TB ZLF is best for him. But one step better is one he almost listed but didn't: Innerforce ZLF (not ALC but ZLF). He might not be good enough to know why that one is the best one, but he will grow into it and one day he will get why that blade, which is too advanced is better than the others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NextLevel]

Nothing against you Der_Echte, I think you are making some valid points about more dwell time, faster/slower blades, and your points about blocking are great. But I think those comments may miss the point about why the OP and many newer players like those faster blades.

When you take a full swing and blast the ball against someone who is giving you block or drive level spin, and not trying to mess you up, those faster blades have this great, crisp snap that makes you want to blast the ball over and over. It feels much more enticing than the dull, soft crunch or worse, thud, of most Off- or All+ blades. It feels great to smack the hell out of he ball. It feels better with an ALC than with a Primorac Off-. Much better.

But those blades do make you want to keep crushing the ball with drive contact so you keep getting that snap on each hit.

I remember giving one of my faster blades to a friend to hit, way back when I was starting, he hit with it for 3 min and gave it back. He said it was good but that he did not want to use it any more because it made him just want to hit and he needed to work on loop contact.

That feeling of a good smack where you crush the ball is addictive and can keep a lower level player from finding what happens when you brush and dig into the ball so that you get a powerful loop instead of a drive.

That being said, if this is about the sport growing, someone who has not figured that stuff out, and wants an Off ALC blade, they are fun. They feel great. They will make him want to play more.

Of the blades Tareq has picked I would say he really could throw a dart at the wall and whichever one he hits would be fine. Of the ones he chose I would say TB ZLF is best for him. But one step better is one he almost listed but didn't: Innerforce ZLF (not ALC but ZLF). He might not be good enough to know why that one is the best one, but he will grow into it and one day he will get why that blade, which is too advanced is better than the others.

Love your confidence in TareqPhoto's game and potential.