How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

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You have a tutorial on this? I don't think it is trivial at all.
Now that you say this, I agree it's not trivial... I think all of the ones I learnt from is in Chinese, the English tutorials don't seem to cover pushing well for some reason (especially on the use of the body in the push which imo is the most important aspect)

Imo a good push means you can push almost all incoming balls (with the exception of loops, but including no spin and even sidetopspin balls) and keep it reasonably low and spinny.
 
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Now that you say this, I agree it's not trivial... I think all of the ones I learnt from is in Chinese, the English tutorials don't seem to cover pushing well for some reason (especially on the use of the body in the push which imo is the most important aspect)

Imo a good push means you can push almost all incoming balls (with the exception of loops, but including no spin and even sidetopspin balls) and keep it reasonably low and spinny.
Giving a no spin ball heavy backspin is made easier by tackiness but it still isn't trivial.. And relative to a push vs backspin, it is always lighter. Nothing to do with being Chinese or European there, I've beaten lots of players who push my no spin or side top and think they are safe because it is a push and the ball didn't come off the table.
 
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Giving a no spin ball heavy backspin is made easier by tackiness but it still isn't trivial.. And relative to a push vs backspin, it is always lighter. Nothing to do with being Chinese or European there, I've beaten lots of players who push my no spin or side top and think they are safe because it is a push and the ball didn't come off the table.
Hmm, I would say that the long pushes against sidetopspin are the heaviest - it's the same principle as looping heavy backspin is spinnier than looping no spin or topspin. No spin is the hardest to push heavy off simply because there's nothing to borrow, but it's still very possible if you use the body well - tackiness helps but it's not the most important thing.

When I mentioned Chinese/English, I meant the tutorials on YouTube vs Douyin, nothing to do with technique - the English tutorials don't seem to cover the use of the body in the push which is extremely important in elevating push quality. The Chinese tutorials on Douyin seem to be more detailed in this aspect.
 
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Hmm, I would say that the long pushes against sidetopspin are the heaviest - it's the same principle as looping heavy backspin is spinnier than looping no spin or topspin. No spin is the hardest to push heavy off simply because there's nothing to borrow, but it's still very possible if you use the body well - tackiness helps but it's not the most important thing.

When I mentioned Chinese/English, I meant the tutorials on YouTube vs Douyin, nothing to do with technique - the English tutorials don't seem to cover the use of the body in the push which is extremely important in elevating push quality. The Chinese tutorials on Douyin seem to be more detailed in this aspect.
Okay. It's one of those things where again I will just have to take your word for it
 
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Okay. It's one of those things where again I will just have to take your word for it
Honestly I'm surprised that quality pushes against no spin and sidetopspin are considered strange/controversial here....I see them done all the time where I play especially by the old guys....
 
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Honestly I'm surprised that quality pushes against no spin and sidetopspin are considered strange/controversial here....I see them done all the time where I play especially by the old guys....
Okay. Read carefully. Usually a player who can beat me with quality pushes against topspin is generally playing at a level where I don't compete. That is very different from saying they are strange or controversial. Hope that is clear.

You may just be a 2400 level player since pushing with quality against such balls is routine to you. In fact I may post a game with a player I beat recently who pushes a lot of topspin long. You will struggle to find me looping the ball into the net.

And pushing no spin and topspin short and tight is an advanced skill. I hope even if you think pushing topspin long with backspin is not an advanced skill, that you agree that pushing no spin and topspin short and tight require technique that needs to be trained seriously to deploy in matches.
 
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Okay. Read carefully. Usually a player who can beat me with quality pushes against topspin is generally playing at a level where I don't compete. That is very different from saying they are strange or controversial. Hope that is clear.

You may just be a 2400 level player since pushing with quality against such balls is routine to you. In fact I may post a game with a player I beat recently who pushes a lot of topspin long. You will struggle to find me looping the ball into the net.

And pushing no spin and topspin short and tight is an advanced skill. I hope even if you think pushing topspin long with backspin is not an advanced skill, that you agree that pushing no spin and topspin short and tight require technique that needs to be trained seriously to deploy in matches.
I agree that pushing sidetopspin short is extremely difficult and an advanced skill (around my circles only my penhold inverted/LP training partner can do it consistently, I can do it but it requires a really good read of the incoming ball, not much room for error) but pushing long is much easier imo. Of course these fast long pushes will for sure get looped like what you mentioned, and if their loops are strong the pusher will get into trouble unless he/she has a great block (even then you're usually in trouble lol).

But in my original context, I'm referring to fast long pushes to the LP player to hopefully reduce the quality of their LP sideswipe to get an easier ball to loop next. That LP sideswipe can be quite deadly against lower quality pushes.
 
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@Littledragonman7 played a tournament today, had a singles and team event.

He got important data firsthand on how matches or won and lost by being way too tight and not able to properly see and process everything needed. This can happen for both players in a competitive match.

This happens to every player as they start competitive playing careers... it is a matter of a sufficient amount of tourney matches and comps as to when this dissipates, becomes something in the back mirror, and the player laughs about the times they played so tight.

We will not know the number of licks on the tootsie pop roll or how many tourneys LDM7 will need for this to go away enough, but at some point it will and his true training level will begin to show through.

He lost a singles match to someone he should have won easily and won a singles match vs another player he should have dominated and felt like he barely got by. Tourney pressure and performance under pressure and tightness is a real thing.

In his team event, he had a squad that on paper should have been a first round exit... but somewhere, somehow, despite being tight, LDM7 starter to perform and win, in singles and doubles. All his team contributed to advancing past first knockout stage... then in the next stage, same deal, got by despite being tight and did just enough to win, even though he should have won convincingly based on how he performs when he trains...

In that second team vs teams matchup, which was the semifinals, his team was tied 2-2 in matches and LDM7 had to play the deciding singles match vs an improving young adult he knows locally in the club. This player had a better mental performance than LDM, but LDM7's recent training level is much higher and LDM7 fought through, he had to be brave and do what was needed to win... SPIN... and last out in rallies where he didn't spin enough.

Still, this was huge pressure and he got through it to win to get his team in the finals... where his team faced a squad of kids from the biggest and baddest TT club in the bay area professionally coached, prepared and motivated.

His opponent was rated much higher and likely under-rated at that. Still, LDM7 rallied enough and occasionally spun heavy enough to get a 2-1 lead, which got to 2-2 and a loss 9-11 in the 5th. LDM7 will make a large training story about HOW he didn't win, it is for him to tell that story, but despite his own pressure he felt, LDM7 had his opponent two inches from breaking down... LDM7 pressured his opponent to THAT extent... yes his opponent was under even MORE pressure... LDM had his opportunity to win, had a break to get an effective plan in place to execute and win.

When LDM7 gets more of this situation in tourneys and does more tourneys, he will not only know what to do, but be able to execute efficiently and win those situations, games, and matches.

This is my story and I am sticking to it.

We also had 5 of us local players have a HUGE meal after the long tourney day of 12 plus hours AT the venue, not including activities BEFORE.
 
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@Littledragonman7 played a tournament today, had a singles and team event.

He got important data firsthand on how matches or won and lost by being way too tight and not able to properly see and process everything needed. This can happen for both players in a competitive match.

This happens to every player as they start competitive playing careers... it is a matter of a sufficient amount of tourney matches and comps as to when this dissipates, becomes something in the back mirror, and the player laughs about the times they played so tight.

We will not know the number of licks on the tootsie pop roll or how many tourneys LDM7 will need for this to go away enough, but at some point it will and his true training level will begin to show through.

He lost a singles match to someone he should have won easily and won a singles match vs another player he should have dominated and felt like he barely got by. Tourney pressure and performance under pressure and tightness is a real thing.

In his team event, he had a squad that on paper should have been a first round exit... but somewhere, somehow, despite being tight, LDM7 starter to perform and win, in singles and doubles. All his team contributed to advancing past first knockout stage... then in the next stage, same deal, got by despite being tight and did just enough to win, even though he should have won convincingly based on how he performs when he trains...

In that second team vs teams matchup, which was the semifinals, his team was tied 2-2 in matches and LDM7 had to play the deciding singles match vs an improving young adult he knows locally in the club. This player had a better mental performance than LDM, but LDM7's recent training level is much higher and LDM7 fought through, he had to be brave and do what was needed to win... SPIN... and last out in rallies where he didn't spin enough.

Still, this was huge pressure and he got through it to win to get his team in the finals... where his team faced a squad of kids from the biggest and baddest TT club in the bay area professionally coached, prepared and motivated.

His opponent was rated much higher and likely under-rated at that. Still, LDM7 rallied enough and occasionally spun heavy enough to get a 2-1 lead, which got to 2-2 and a loss 9-11 in the 5th. LDM7 will make a large training story about HOW he didn't win, it is for him to tell that story, but despite his own pressure he felt, LDM7 had his opponent two inches from breaking down... LDM7 pressured his opponent to THAT extent... yes his opponent was under even MORE pressure... LDM had his opportunity to win, had a break to get an effective plan in place to execute and win.

When LDM7 gets more of this situation in tourneys and does more tourneys, he will not only know what to do, but be able to execute efficiently and win those situations, games, and matches.

This is my story and I am sticking to it.

We also had 5 of us local players have a HUGE meal after the long tourney day of 12 plus hours AT the venue, not including activities BEFORE.

Struggling to find a way to convey this!!!!!

Tightening up when starting tournaments etc is, for most people is a given.
Singles, is Mano a Mano.
Team event, does the pressure increase because you don’t want to let the side down? But does this added pressure actually HELP you concentrate and raise your game?

What do you guys think?
 
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The Ottawa Table Tennis club is putting out some great videos that are a bit long. But you can watch the first 10 minutes and see whether it can be worth your time or not. This one has a very valuable principle underlying it and I think it will help people who have not answered the main question of how they intend to win points.
BTW, a coach in tennis (Darren Cahill) makes one of his core preparation routines for the players he coaches to know how their opponent typically wins points and what the opponents strategies are. If you can figure it out with some accuracy and precision, it can be extremely valuable for you to know what tools you might want to deploy more or less.

 
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Here are some videos that I wanted to find a long time ago but could not. All from the over 60 series on WRM-TV. They try to breakdown technique in a way that reduces the demands on people who do not have the athleticism for professional technique. That said, 60+ aged players must be really healthy in Japan.

 
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Struggling to find a way to convey this!!!!!

Tightening up when starting tournaments etc is, for most people is a given.
Singles, is Mano a Mano.
Team event, does the pressure increase because you don’t want to let the side down? But does this added pressure actually HELP you concentrate and raise your game?

What do you guys think?
I think the tightening up is natural, even learning things and concentrating with some tension is natural. Evolving beyond it is the key. I think when you evolve beyond it, you gain a valuable skill for life.
 
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I have a video I would like to share too - we have done a lot of work on this thread, between us, on FH loop technique and I recently came across this video that I found to be very helpful in visualising a FH loop / drive.

I hope any of you looking at this shot technically, find this useful..

 
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I wish that @Littledragonman7 would make his comments... they would likely be extensive and profound telling in both directions. he had the full span of emotions in his tourney. He also experienced the roller coaster of emotions you get from a teams tourney - there is nothing like it so compelling.
 
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Hey @Littledragonman7 what's up?

Haven't heard or seen any updates in a while so hope you're doing ok. Maybe just too focused on getting better ;-)
He would tell you about the positives of his team tourney and all he went through the next tourney and league rebound... but he gotta tell it.
 
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Hey @Littledragonman7 what's up?

Haven't heard or seen any updates in a while so hope you're doing ok. Maybe just too focused on getting better ;-)

wut up @Wrighty67 ?!

i am staying focused, not sure about the getting better part tho :LOL:

as i recall ... how's your FH loop coming along?
 
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