Copy of Viscaria - The miracle recipe

[Arkady]

Hello everybody !
My friend discovered Butterfly Viscaria blade and loves it!

Unfortunately, due to certain partnerships he is obliged to play with brands like Tibhar, Donic, Victas, Xiom, Andro, Joola, Yasaka and Stiga.
What do you think would be the most similar blade from these manufacturers? No budget restrictions

We can even imagine that one of these brands offers an even more quality product based on this model.

Andro Treiber K has the exact same composition with Viscaria: Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri core-Limba-ALC-Koto

 

[disaster3]

Hello everybody !
My friend discovered Butterfly Viscaria blade and loves it!

Unfortunately, due to certain partnerships he is obliged to play with brands like Tibhar, Donic, Victas, Xiom, Andro, Joola, Yasaka and Stiga.
What do you think would be the most similar blade from these manufacturers? No budget restrictions

We can even imagine that one of these brands offers an even more quality product based on this model.

Short answer
Joola Vyzaryz HRD = BTF Viscaria ALC

Joola ZQH-90 Super Ary-C = BTF Viscaria SALC

mentioned above
Stiga Inspira Plus

 

[SlowPower]

Here's the thing, viscaria's composition is koto-alc-ayous-kiri. A few woodworkers have posted this quite some time ago to correct Dan's mistake. After you see the grain difference of ayous and limba you can't unsee it either, it's trippy. I can send you the reports if you want.

Edit: found the link, https://ttgearlab.com/2023/07/18/butterfly-viscaria-current-model-photos-information/

can you tell from this picrure which is ayous and which limba?

 

[Jimbob MacInbred]

can you tell from this picrure which is ayous and which limba?

If I had to guess, the first woodsheet (from the top) is limba and the second one is ayous (the diagonal lines are pretty obvious to me), though it is somewhat "unpractical" to show mere woodsheets and not actual close-ups of a blade (see Giangt's picture) - that way it would be a bit easier to tell. But actually we don't really have to guess here, because if a reputed blade maker such as @ hipnotic (aka SDC Blades) tells that the middle layer of the Viscaria is ayous, then I am very much inclined to believe him.

Limba VS. Ayous in the second layer

Limba VS. Ayous in the second layer

www.sdcttblades.com

 

[JustANoob]

Tibhar, Donic, Victas, Xiom, Andro, Joola, Yasaka and Stiga

I find this thread very interesting. It is nice to see how on topic and helpful people on the forum are capable of being:

OP - "I want and intend to use a blade from one of these brands: Tibhar, Donic, Victas, Xiom, Andro, Joola, Yasaka and Stiga, but would like a blade that is similar to a Viscaria.

TTDM #x - "Why don't you just get a Viscaria and put a Stiga handle on it?"

OP - "I don't want to use Butterfly blades. I want to be using equipment from one of the brands I mentioned."

TTDM #z - "You could just use a Butterfly blade and put a Stiga handle on it."

OP - "I don't want to use Butterfly blades. I want to be using equipment from one of the brands I mentioned."

TTDM #f - "Just get a blade from a Chinese manufacturer."

OP - "I want to be using equipment from one of the brands I mentioned."

TTDM #g - "You know you can glue any handle on a Butterfly blade you want. All the pros do it and nobody knows."

TTDM #e - "Get a blade from DHS."

TTDM #j - "Have one of the home blade makers make you what you want."

OP - "Is it worth my telling you guys that I would like a blade from one of the brands I mentioned."

Kudos to the forum members on the thread who gave actual information about products from one of the brands the OP was actually asking about.

In the end, I guess there is plenty of information on what the OP actually wanted that it does not really matter all that much. I just find it interesting how a good 1/3 of the comments seem to be telling the OP that he wants what he does not want.

I'll bite.

Because its a fucking placebo effect.

Because OP starts and I quote "Hello everybody !My friend discovered Butterfly Viscaria blade and loves it"

Do we get a list of blades OP's friend has played with? How do you know any of the recommendations that fit in the "criteria" haven't been tried? And you must absolutely know that getting a blade with a similar feel depends on more on weight,weight distribution, the wood itself,handle and who knows how many other variables than the model. Its more of a lottery.

Because even if you get a blade that is a perfect copy or even better than a Viscaria, it is Not THE Viscaria in the brain and the brain knows it.

So the one solution that is 100% gonna work is to slap a handle on the viscaria, instead of going through many models and not getting rid of that itch on the back of the brain.

This whole thing reminds me of another placebo effect, "Why the Sound of a Gun Had to Be Nerfed in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory" youtube video, whoever has 12 minutes to kill can check it out.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'll bite.

Because its a fucking placebo effect.

Because OP starts and I quote "Hello everybody !My friend discovered Butterfly Viscaria blade and loves it"

Do we get a list of blades OP's friend has played with? How do you know any of the recommendations that fit in the "criteria" haven't been tried? And you must absolutely know that getting a blade with a similar feel depends on more on weight,weight distribution, the wood itself,handle and who knows how many other variables than the model. Its more of a lottery.

Because even if you get a blade that is a perfect copy or even better than a Viscaria, it is Not THE Viscaria in the brain and the brain knows it.

So the one solution that is 100% gonna work is to slap a handle on the viscaria, instead of going through many models and not getting rid of that itch on the back of the brain.

This whole thing reminds me of another placebo effect, "Why the Sound of a Gun Had to Be Nerfed in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory" youtube video, whoever has 12 minutes to kill can check it out.

And so, if the person says, I do not want to play with a Butterfly blade. I just want one that is close enough to this particular blade, your answer is: tough SH_T, play with a Viscara and put a different handle on it even though that is specifically not what you want. Even if there are plenty of blades that fit your criteria, do something you specifically don't want and asked not to have people tell you to do.

Okay. I see.

 

[JustANoob]

And so, if the person says, I do not want to play with a Butterfly blade.

"Hello everybody !My friend discovered Butterfly Viscaria blade and loves it"

Are you sure you see?

 

[SlowPower]

If I had to guess, the first woodsheet (from the top) is limba and the second one is ayous (the diagonal lines are pretty obvious to me), though it is somewhat "unpractical" to show mere woodsheets and not actual close-ups of a blade (see Giangt's picture) - that way it would be a bit easier to tell. But actually we don't really have to guess here, because if a reputed blade maker such as @ hipnotic (aka SDC Blades) tells that the middle layer of the Viscaria is ayous, then I am very much inclined to believe him.

Limba VS. Ayous in the second layer

Limba VS. Ayous in the second layer

www.sdcttblades.com

thanks, I didnt know this article- but from the linked pictures alone I still can't tell which wood is used in the viscaria.

nI a german forum its stated to be limba and there are also several well know blade makers.

but i ll search for some better pics and try to proof it by my self using this information from sdc...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

"Hello everybody !My friend discovered Butterfly Viscaria blade and loves it"

Are you sure you see?

You do have a point here. I agree it is weird. But why not just ignore?

 

[Lowday20298]

thanks, I didnt know this article- but from the linked pictures alone I still can't tell which wood is used in the viscaria.

nI a german forum its stated to be limba and there are also several well know blade makers.

but i ll search for some better pics and try to proof it by my self using this information from sdc...

I think also sdc also states that viscaria uses ayous and not limba

 

[Lowday20298]

can you tell from this picrure which is ayous and which limba?

Me personally, I can't. But this is exactly why I believe woodworkers and specialists like SDC and this link I sent instead of people that can't tell spruce from cypress. After I sat and looked at my Clipper, that has a limba top layer, and its middle ayous plies, I was able to see the difference when actively searching for it, after reading it on SDC website. Then I started researching it and found couple of articles talking about it.

So it's official, Viscaria has Ayous middle ply, not Limba.

 

[Aijaz_000]

@Equaaz Tibhar MK carbon is quite close to Viscaria. You could get a blade that has similar weight to your test Viscaria and play and compare. You can alter the weight to suit your feeling.

 

[Migzkulit]

Another way of looking at it is seeing what blades pro's use. If they used viscaria then switched to a different manufacturer (like WMY). Kenta used Zhang Jike ALC then changed to MK carbon.

 

[riemsesy]

So it's official, Viscaria has Ayous middle ply, not Limba.

Yes
TTGearlab Viscaria blog

 

[Fredsp]

Just get a viscaria clone from China, the yinhe pro 01 is a 1 to 1 copy. Else the donic original true carbon is the one. Softer carbon and slightly thicker.

I bought the Yinhe Pro01 6 months ago and it doesn't look that much like the original Viscaria. It has much less power and explosiveness when you hit hard. I think that the Yinhe carbon, even this one, is not of good quality, it does not give the rigidity or speed that we should expect for the price of the supposed clone. In fact, my T11+, even though it is very uncontrollable, offers me more Pro features than the 01.

 

[Lowday20298]

I bought the Yinhe Pro01 6 months ago and it doesn't look that much like the original Viscaria. It has much less power and explosiveness when you hit hard. I think that the Yinhe carbon, even this one, is not of good quality, it does not give the rigidity or speed that we should expect for the price of the supposed clone. In fact, my T11+, even though it is very uncontrollable, offers me more Pro features than the 01.

Of course it's not gonna be on the same level. The yinhe costs 40 bucks and the viscaria 180. If you want a 1 to 1 experience, buy the real thing. You pay for the selection of woods, carefully handcrafted and top notch gluing process between the layers and of course the curing. You're not paying for the brand, you're paying for the quality, manufacturing process and the attention to detail and quality control. Butterfly is no1 brand for a reason.

 

[piligrim]

I bought the Yinhe Pro01 6 months ago and it doesn't look that much like the original Viscaria. It has much less power and explosiveness when you hit hard. I think that the Yinhe carbon, even this one, is not of good quality, it does not give the rigidity or speed that we should expect for the price of the supposed clone. In fact, my T11+, even though it is very uncontrollable, offers me more Pro features than the 01.

I also playing with Pro 01 last few weeks. I agree its not similar Viscaria. My Pro 01 faster and harder then Viscaria. I would say it closer to TB ALC then Viscaria

 

[Bagogo]

TTDM #z - "You could just use a Butterfly blade and put a Stiga handle on it."

Are you serious? Where can I get this setting?
on a website it sells for around 390$ 🤪
Is there anyone who can customize it or a shop that can sell this setup cheaper? Just curious😁
✌️

 

[turbozed]

Of course it's not gonna be on the same level. The yinhe costs 40 bucks and the viscaria 180. If you want a 1 to 1 experience, buy the real thing. You pay for the selection of woods, carefully handcrafted and top notch gluing process between the layers and of course the curing. You're not paying for the brand, you're paying for the quality, manufacturing process and the attention to detail and quality control. Butterfly is no1 brand for a reason.

You're also paying for the marketing and for the difference and labor and manufacturing costs in the respective countries. Also factor in economies of scale.

I don't think it's safe to assume that Butterfly is particularly diligent in their wood selection when individual models of the same blade can vary in weight by 10+ grams and is similar to the variance of the bargain brands. If anything they may throw out obviously defective plies whereas a bargain brand may not.

I haven't heard of any other "selection" process that somehow tests wood plies individually, as that would be cost prohibitive. Maybe some of the blade makers can chime in on if something like that is even possible.

Unless proven otherwise, the biggest distinguishing factor with high priced blades is the level of exterior finishing, which is more of an aesthetic and less of a performance concern.

 

[SlowPower]

well i am not that experienced in blade making and still learning.
but I take the weight of every veneer sheet before gluing to calculate the estimated weight of the finished blade. also when making multiple blades of the same construction whenever possible i take the veneers from the same batch or even from the next layer of the same tree so the differences are minimal.
doing this my blades are within 0,5g to each other.

i dont think butterfly is doing this, but only small blademakers can afford this procedure...