Recommendations for a beginner + few questions

[razant]

Hi! I'm Bogdan and i'm from Romania! Before asking some questions here, i'll post few words about me regarding table tennis.
After more than 20 years in which i played like 2-3 times/year (in some of them i didn't play at all), of course with a premade bat, i decided to change this. I had a surgery on my dominant wrist back in October 2022 and since January this year started to play once a week in my work break with the colleagues. In March i started to take some classes and made my first custom bat. The advice came from my coach and i'm playing with Neottec Voodoo Classic OFF (according to some statistics it's ALL+) + FH Andro Rasanter R47 max + BH Andro Rasanter V42 max. The motivation for putting V series on BH was that he likes my BH punch.
I'm training twice per week and play with friends/local hobby tournaments twice per week. As for the playstyle i like to finish with the BH and trying to be aggressive with some FH topspins. I sometimes struggle with ball that are short rather than long and very loaded with side spin. Also i struggle in short-short game because i fell my bat si too bouncy. I barely touch the ball, and it jumps very high. This helps me with the blocks which i like, i don't need to push them.
So now i'm thinking of changing both rubbers and the blade because of that bounciness. I don't know what should be better, a 5ply only wood or a 7ply wood (besides weight, the main difference is that the 7ply can hit harder?). Also if the blade is thicker, the rubbers should be thinner?
I played with an yasaka Sweden and i don't like the form of the blade, how it feels in my hand. I tried Andro CI OFF with used GTT rubbers and i can tell that i didn't feel the carbon. My short-short game was better.
I'm inclined towards: Butterfly Petr Korbel blade (saw that there is a Japan made version which is more expensive, does it worth?) with some soft-medium rubbers like Rozena, Dignics09c(maybe they are too much) or even Andro Hexer SFX/Powergrip SFX/R45.
Andro Treiber CI OFF
Andro TP Ligna CI
Butterfly Korbel SK7
Basically the options for the rubbers should be the same as mentioned for the Petr korbel blade.

So what do you think it would be a better choice? I'm playing with actual bat for the last 10 weeks and i plan to continue with it for 8-10 weeks (don't know if it's a good idea, but on the other hand i read that as a beginner you should play with a bat for few months)

Cheers!

 

[Zezima]

From what I have understood so far you struggle with understanding how to deal with short sidespin. It´s hard to tell without seeing you play but what I would suggest is, try to figure out what happens with the ball and WHY. No matter which setup you will use unless u go for LP you will struggle with sidespin balls if you don´t grasp the concept of spin.

If you change your setup to something that is better in short game, you will be worse at blocking and then come back to the forum and ask for a setup that can do both well.

I think you have to give yourself some more time. You seem to be a beginner, and it takes some time to get those shots consistently right.

 

[turbozed]

It sounds like your biggest issue is that your backhand rubber is too bouncy for your liking. Maybe just change that to something more controllable and less bouncy. Not sure that you need to change your entire setup 6 months into serious play.

 

[Lazer]

Stick with Your "Neottec Vodoo Classic" . it's fine. Change to slower rubbers.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[razant]

From what I have understood so far you struggle with understanding how to deal with short sidespin. It´s hard to tell without seeing you play but what I would suggest is, try to figure out what happens with the ball and WHY. No matter which setup you will use unless u go for LP you will struggle with sidespin balls if you don´t grasp the concept of spin.

If you change your setup to something that is better in short game, you will be worse at blocking and then come back to the forum and ask for a setup that can do both well.

I think you have to give yourself some more time. You seem to be a beginner, and it takes some time to get those shots consistently right.

Definitely i'm a beginner . I understand how the ball spins but when the serves are mixed up i tend to forget how to put the bat for left spin and for right spin(this usually happens combined with backspin, when they are combined with topspin, i receive with topspin also).
The main struggle is that ball flys from the bat in short-short, passive game even if it has no spin. I barely touch the ball and i's homerun sometimes ). Happens with FH also but i receive more often with the BH.

It sounds like your biggest issue is that your backhand rubber is too bouncy for your liking. Maybe just change that to something more controllable and less bouncy. Not sure that you need to change your entire setup 6 months into serious play.

Yes, they both are bouncy and i don't feel the ball that much when i hit it. this helps with my topspins and blocks but on the other stuff not quite. Adding to this the fact that being a beginner comes with being stiff and my arm is not like a noodle when i receive the ball.

Thanks for your messages!

 

[razant]

Stick with Your "Neottec Vodoo Classic" . it's fine. Change to slower rubbers.

Cheers
L-zr

Would you rather change them as soon as possible or stick to these for 2-3 months and then change them. Could affect my future game if i continue with them?
Also from the rubbers i mentioned is there a particular one which you suggest?
Thanks!

 

[mocker88]

As you are a beginner in this I think, like @Lazer, that your blade is really a good, fast enough allround blade.

I understand that you have problems with keeping the ball short and all kinds of spin when using quite bouncy, grippy rubbers like Rasanter, and you come from a premade bat.

Go for easier to use rubbers like Palio AK47 Yellow or 729 Focus III Snipe 44deg. These rubbers are spinny enough, but not that grippy and have medium soft sponges. They would match great with your blade and they'll help you to practice your technique as they don't bounce so much.

 

[Choosikick]

Hi! Bogdan!
Try Mercury 2, beginners often progress well with this rubber, because it teaches you to understand and create rotation, while it is not fast, which does not lead to muscle tightness and shortening of movements, as is the case with tensor rubbers. Take for a start one rubber in thickness probably for you Maximum soft. It will seem slow at first, but it's actually good because you'll be playing with longer and more relaxed strokes, which is very important in table tennis.
And by the way, do not look at its low price, let it not scare you. This rubber can do all the elements of modern tennis and can give odds to many rubbers that are three or more times more expensive than it.

 

[Lazer]

Would you rather change them as soon as possible or stick to these for 2-3 months and then change them. Could affect my future game if i continue with them?
Also from the rubbers i mentioned is there a particular one which you suggest?
Thanks!

The sooner the better.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Zezima]

Then you are holding your racket too firm. Try to hit the ball where your opponent hits it and you are good to go usually.

I still hold to my beliefs that you are doing it fundamentally wrong and no rubber will change that fact. If you had said that because its bouncy it goes a bit too high to the opp side sure go fine tune it with a different rubber but the way you said "i's homerun sometimes "

Usually its easier to keep it short against light underspin/sidespin serve.
Against no spin serve I assume u still go as if you do a push motion and then obviously it rockets out of the table. That´s also what the server aims you to do.

I also didn´t quite understand if you struggle to read what your opponent serves from the motion or you know the spin, but don´t know how to receive. I get a feeling that you know both but your racket doesn´t do what you want it to do which makes no sense and you are just lying to yourself.

Service + Return is the most important skill yes even before FH Loops. That´s how each game starts. It´s all about you for how long you want to delay to learn this skill.

 

[razant]

In some cases it may be that i'm squeezing the bat, but not in all scenarios. When i played with Andro Treiber CI OFF+GTT rubbers (used for 7 months) i could receive better, putting the bat exactly the same under the ball. And now i'm speaking only for no spin balls.
The fact that i don't read well the serve sometimes => put the bat wrong, is another thing and no bat/rubber can help me but trying to read better the opponent movement.
I said "it's homerun" but i exaggerated a little bit. It goes higher than i expect, higher than i want and i'm giving the opportunity for an attack.

Regarding Mercury 2 and Palio AK47, they are not to find in my area so it would be necessary to buy them on ebay or something. I prefer something that i could find in the local shops: andro, butterfly, stiga, xiom, etc

 

[mightymouse]

As written by other forum members above, I also suggest you to keep playing with your Neottec Voodo Classic. It is basically a replica of Butterfly Petr Korbel.

It is limba - limba - ayous - limba -limba with thickness of 5.9 mm. So from this specification, it is a replica of Korbel in term of wood construction and blade thickness. What I don't know (as I don't own an Voodo Classic), is the blade head size. For BTY Korbel, it is 158 x 152 mm.

Remember also, BTY Korbel handle is quite thin, especially for average European hand. Nothing that a grip tape can't solve.

Answering your question, is it worth it to get BTY Korbel (Japanese made)? My personal answer is YES. Because the quality of Japanese made Korbel is excellent. It is a blade that you can use your whole life (and adapt by changing rubbers as you progress).

But again, why do you want to switch to something that is quite similar to your Voodo Classic.

About Andro Treiber CI Off, Andro TP Ligna CI Off and BTY Korbel SK7, well, I think you should improve your techniques first, by using Voodo Classic. And then you can decide later if you still need those blades.

 

[turbozed]

In some cases it may be that i'm squeezing the bat, but not in all scenarios. When i played with Andro Treiber CI OFF+GTT rubbers (used for 7 months) i could receive better, putting the bat exactly the same under the ball. And now i'm speaking only for no spin balls.
The fact that i don't read well the serve sometimes => put the bat wrong, is another thing and no bat/rubber can help me but trying to read better the opponent movement.
I said "it's homerun" but i exaggerated a little bit. It goes higher than i expect, higher than i want and i'm giving the opportunity for an attack.

Regarding Mercury 2 and Palio AK47, they are not to find in my area so it would be necessary to buy them on ebay or something. I prefer something that i could find in the local shops: andro, butterfly, stiga, xiom, etc

Usually people buy inexpensive Chinese rubbers from Aliexpress. If you can't access that, then another option is tt-maximum.com which ships from Ukraine.

 

[JJ Ng]

Ok, I read through all the comments. Here are my thoughts.

Return sidespin short service is a "touch" shot. You either slightly touch the ball or you have to do a light brush of the ball over the top to get it over the net. It is a tough serve to return. You cannot "hit" the ball because a short sidespin serve would react like a backspin ball in that scenario. You should touch the ball lightly and the ball will be returned short or at least with less momentum.

If you want to be aggressive, then you treat the sidespin short serve like you would treat a topspin short serve. You brush over the top of the ball. If you don't brush, the ball will go into the net. If you brush with too open of an angle, the ball will go off the end of the table.

That's the most common two ways to return that sort of ball. Maybe you have been trying to push underspin on the short sidespin serve. That usually would lead the ball to pop up or go off to one side of the table or another.

As for equipment, I agree. Neottec Voodoo Classic is a good blade. I think TT11 uses it to test different rubbers. you can find tabletennis11 on the youtube and take a look at their channel.

If you are in Romani, I think tabletennis11 should have no problem delivering the goods to you, and probably you will get your shipment within 2-3 days.

If you really want to change your blade, you should consider Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. It is 5-ply. It has very little vibration (I don't like vibration). It feels very solid for a 5-ply. It is OFF-. Rubber, why not stay away from tensor rubbers? Keep your current set-up because you might use it six months to a year down the road. I would recommend Neottec Hinomi-S, Hinomi-M or Katana. Great price for made-in-Japan non-tensor rubbers. I have Katana on a Gambler carbon blade that I feed my kids for multiball training. I like that rubber. 2.0mm.

No need to pay up for Sriver or Mark V.

 

[Trevize84]

I'm pretty happy with my Yasaka Sweden Extra and my Victas Euro Feeling Off-. I have Xiom Vega Europe, Tibhar FX-S, Andro R42 and Gewo Hype 40. The Xiom Vega Europe (FH) and Gewo Hype (BH) are the ones that I like the most. The Vega Europe is just awesome.

 

[razant]

As written by other forum members above, I also suggest you to keep playing with your Neottec Voodo Classic. It is basically a replica of Butterfly Petr Korbel.

It is limba - limba - ayous - limba -limba with thickness of 5.9 mm. So from this specification, it is a replica of Korbel in term of wood construction and blade thickness. What I don't know (as I don't own an Voodo Classic), is the blade head size. For BTY Korbel, it is 158 x 152 mm.

Remember also, BTY Korbel handle is quite thin, especially for average European hand. Nothing that a grip tape can't solve.

Answering your question, is it worth it to get BTY Korbel (Japanese made)? My personal answer is YES. Because the quality of Japanese made Korbel is excellent. It is a blade that you can use your whole life (and adapt by changing rubbers as you progress).

But again, why do you want to switch to something that is quite similar to your Voodo Classic.

About Andro Treiber CI Off, Andro TP Ligna CI Off and BTY Korbel SK7, well, I think you should improve your techniques first, by using Voodo Classic. And then you can decide later if you still need those blades.

I would change the Neottec just because the vibration which is bigger than any other blade that I've used. 100% korbel won't have that.

Ok, I read through all the comments. Here are my thoughts.

Return sidespin short service is a "touch" shot. You either slightly touch the ball or you have to do a light brush of the ball over the top to get it over the net. It is a tough serve to return. You cannot "hit" the ball because a short sidespin serve would react like a backspin ball in that scenario. You should touch the ball lightly and the ball will be returned short or at least with less momentum.

If you want to be aggressive, then you treat the sidespin short serve like you would treat a topspin short serve. You brush over the top of the ball. If you don't brush, the ball will go into the net. If you brush with too open of an angle, the ball will go off the end of the table.

That's the most common two ways to return that sort of ball. Maybe you have been trying to push underspin on the short sidespin serve. That usually would lead the ball to pop up or go off to one side of the table or another.

As for equipment, I agree. Neottec Voodoo Classic is a good blade. I think TT11 uses it to test different rubbers. you can find tabletennis11 on the youtube and take a look at their channel.

If you are in Romani, I think tabletennis11 should have no problem delivering the goods to you, and probably you will get your shipment within 2-3 days.

If you really want to change your blade, you should consider Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. It is 5-ply. It has very little vibration (I don't like vibration). It feels very solid for a 5-ply. It is OFF-. Rubber, why not stay away from tensor rubbers? Keep your current set-up because you might use it six months to a year down the road. I would recommend Neottec Hinomi-S, Hinomi-M or Katana. Great price for made-in-Japan non-tensor rubbers. I have Katana on a Gambler carbon blade that I feed my kids for multiball training. I like that rubber. 2.0mm.

No need to pay up for Sriver or Mark V.

Basically, you're right, when I misread the serve, I touch the ball like it would be an underspin, and the ball jumps off.

I'm pretty happy with my Yasaka Sweden Extra and my Victas Euro Feeling Off-. I have Xiom Vega Europe, Tibhar FX-S, Andro R42 and Gewo Hype 40. The Xiom Vega Europe (FH) and Gewo Hype (BH) are the ones that I like the most. The Vega Europe is just awesome.

I played with yasaka Sweden extra but having some Razka on it. The thing is that I don't like the shape of the yasaka blades...don't know why but doesn't feel right in my hand.


I played today after my training session with an Andro Treiber ci off with some powergrip rubbers. From 10 backspin balls, my topspin was 90% which is big for me. With my bat from 10 backspin balls I have like 70% topspin good returns.
So the conclusion is that the rubbers are a little bit too much for me right now. That feeling of the ball staying on the rubber to feel it, I don't have it that much with the bat I have...
I'm not afraid of the speed when I attack, so I think I will play 1-2 months like this and downgrade the rubbers to something soft and maintain some speed from a Korbel or an Andro Treiber ci off.

 

[Trevize84]

I played with yasaka Sweden extra but having some Razka on it. The thing is that I don't like the shape of the yasaka blades...don't know why but doesn't feel right in my hand.

I guess the YSE has a little larger handle than the other blades. Give also a look at Donic Persson Powerplay (original, not v1 or v2).

 

[razant]

I guess the YSE has a little larger handle that other blades. Give also a look at Donic Persson Powerplay (original, not v1 or v2).

Yes, something like little larger handle and smaller/different bat shape
I will have a look for that Donic, see if it is in my area

 

[Trevize84]

Yes, something like little larger handle and smaller/different bat shape
I will have a look for that Donic, see if it is in my area

Koto outer might be right for you. Also 7ply might feel more stable and less vibration. 6mm or less thickness allows for good control. This Donic has also 2 foils made on purpose to filter out vibrations. Might be what you're looking for.

 

[JJ Ng]

Yes, something like little larger handle and smaller/different bat shape
I will have a look for that Donic, see if it is in my area

I second Donic PowerPlay. It is like $35 or so. Very solid 7-ply. OFF in speed. That is accurate. A bit faster than Tibhar Stratus Powerwood. I have Donic PowerPlay, two of them, one is straight handle and one is anatomic handle. If you like bigger handle, then look into anatomic handle. I like Donice PowerPlay, at least enough to get two of them.

The bad shape/face of Donic PowerPlay is smaller than that of Tibhar Stratus Powerwood