stubborn in disobedience of the rules. Bad example to follow.

says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
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I mean the advantage of going slightly within the surface is so minor, but still the rule is needed, because in case you overdo it, you can get a huge advantage, especially on lower levels^^
So true. I play the lower levels where my opponents serve directly out of their hand, over the table, as if they were scared to drop the ball on the floor.
A lot of players have refined their technique so well that the ball comes towards me at great speed, flat as a pancake and virtually impossible to push back or BH flick .
This takes away the whole purpose of a sport imo.
.................and clubs that are happy to let these things go on should loose the right to call themselves table tennis clubs but should be forced to call themselves: The friendly lawless ping pong players gatherings 😁
 
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.................and clubs that are happy to let these things go on should loose the right to call themselves table tennis clubs but should be forced to call themselves: The friendly lawless ping pong players gatherings 😁
Funny enough in germany we have a not well known name for that. While pingpong is table tennis playing just for fun without any rules and for badminton it would be Federball (featherball as a literal translation^^).

In germany we have a stupid rule for smth of a certification that the club is able to play by the rules. Every club has to name a clubmember that goes for a training as an umpire...
Actually a good idea so you have someone as an official in every club. The only problem is that germany and table tennis especially still lives in the stone age. This results in the dttb being unable to certify ppl online, so you have to travel hundreds of km to participate in this training for umpires.
Because of that and the reason you cant possibly force someone to do this on your OWN FUCKING cost, there is another rule that every club can buy themselves out of that rule for 50€/year... Like WTF???

Imagine being one of the biggest nations in table tennis (that is actually a miracle itself) but completely unable to organize yourself propperly in every aspect.
 
says Table tennis clown
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Funny enough in germany we have a not well known name for that. While pingpong is table tennis playing just for fun without any rules and for badminton it would be Federball (featherball as a literal translation^^).
I deliberately did avoid mentioning Ping pong because i think especially in the us there are ping pong clubs that play in tournaments and are very serious. Pingpong is also some protected trademark. But we know what you mean. (y)
every club can buy themselves out of that rule for 50€/year... Like WTF???
Absolutely crazy !!!
Can the members of those clubs then still take part in National Tournaments ???

The only problem is that germany and table tennis especially still lives in the stone age.
Wait until you once visit here, a provincial town of a third world country 😂
 
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I deliberately did avoid mentioning Ping pong because i think especially in the us there are ping pong clubs that play in tournaments and are very serious. Pingpong is also some protected trademark. But we know what you mean. (y)

Absolutely crazy !!!
Can the members of those clubs then still take part in National Tournaments ???


Wait until you once visit here, a provincial town of a third world country 😂
Yes, they can. The problem concerns only the lower league games, in which there are no official umpires.

And in torunaments you always have umpires at least around if not right at the table.

Yeah in third world country you have at least internet almost everywhere. For the requirements of being an umpire you probably even get tested on PAPER!
 
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Rule 2.6.4 (...and behind the server's end line...) is the current disaster in table tennis. 80% of all top players sin against that and no referee has the guts to say anything about this.

Yes, correctly observed that this is what happens at the pro level and even in sanctioned amateur tourneys the few times there are umpires officiating the match.

I will say this... you need NOT WORRY when Der_Echte is on the job.

I have zero empathy for illegal serving and do not care what anyone thinks about me calling the serve by the rules... which is that if the umpire is not convinced that the serve was legal, then it is illegal.

I care not what jokers say. I am not concerned if a player, coach, fan, or anyone want to threaten me and get physical with me. I will handle it with decisiveness and finality... very suddenly.

The problem is, that when an umpire actually enforces the rules, that umpire will not be a match umpire the rest of the tourney, maybe the rest of the year, or decade. Such an umpire will be blacklisted faster than you can spit.

You can also count on Der_Echte not being concerned with that either.

Unfortunately, ITTF umpires like their badge, the ability to travel and eat for free, even though they get paid zero to peanuts less than minimum wage, ITTF umpires tend to want to keep their umpire badge.

In a recent seniors tourney (a USATT sanctioned tourney) I sat down in the score keeper table to be scorekeeper for a doubles match... I ended up professionally presenting the match and umpiring. I was exceeding my authority by umpiring the match, even if it was a proper and professional execution of duty. Being a trained and umpire was irrelevant. I was supposed to shut my mouth and flip the scoreboard. Somehow, something was defective with my mind on my decision to professionally umpire the match.

A dude on one doubles team had a blatant illegal serve to team Ju Mingwei... dude had zero toss and served the ball fast right out of his hand to Mr Ju. I raised my hand, called let, stated the ball was not tossed 6 inches and provided the visual sign. Seconds later, dude served again... the very same fast serve out of his hand. I raised my hand and called point for team Ju Mingwei. Mr Ju had a tiny acknowledging smile, like he never saw an umpire call an illegal serve.

Both the player and dozens of the crowd watching were in shock at the gall of the umpire to call an illegal serve... and count the point against the illegal server... after all, such a thing is very normal and accepted in the club and by those of the player's ethnicity/age/culture at their play level.

That player's partner served next time around... she served it with an entirely backwards toss right onto her racket... I immediately raised my hand and called point for team Ju Mingwei. The crowd was in shock again. they sent their club president to replace me as scorekeeper.

Very soon afterwards, I was replaced as scorekeeper. I got the Trump treatment... Youuuuurrrrrreeee Fired !

I never had such a grand time ever being fired in my life. I spent the rest of the match joking with Ju Mingwei's translator about how umpires are afraid to call illegal serves (and be blacklisted) and how I had to pay the price for calling the illegal serve illegal. I wasn't getting paid and I had no connection with that venue's club, so I was not concerned, nor would I be if the situation was different. It was easy to laugh that one off and have a good time over it.

Before my next visit to Table Tennis America TTC, I will need to learn the Chinese phrase for REPLACE THAT UMPIRE ! If I can learn that and say that to Ju Mingwei as a form of saying hello, I think that would be a riot.
 
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Yes, correctly observed that this is what happens at the pro level and even in sanctioned amateur tourneys the few times there are umpires officiating the match.

I will say this... you need NOT WORRY when Der_Echte is on the job.

I have zero empathy for illegal serving and do not care what anyone thinks about me calling the serve by the rules... which is that if the umpire is not convinced that the serve was legal, then it is illegal.

I care not what jokers say. I am not concerned if a player, coach, fan, or anyone want to threaten me and get physical with me. I will handle it with decisiveness and finality... very suddenly.

The problem is, that when an umpire actually enforces the rules, that umpire will not be a match umpire the rest of the tourney, maybe the rest of the year, or decade. Such an umpire will be blacklisted faster than you can spit.

You can also count on Der_Echte not being concerned with that either.

Unfortunately, ITTF umpires like their badge, the ability to travel and eat for free, even though they get paid zero to peanuts less than minimum wage, ITTF umpires tend to want to keep their umpire badge.

In a recent seniors tourney (a USATT sanctioned tourney) I sat down in the score keeper table to be scorekeeper for a doubles match... I ended up professionally presenting the match and umpiring. I was exceeding my authority by umpiring the match, even if it was a proper and professional execution of duty. Being a trained and umpire was irrelevant. I was supposed to shut my mouth and flip the scoreboard. Somehow, something was defective with my mind on my decision to professionally umpire the match.

A dude on one doubles team had a blatant illegal serve to team Ju Mingwei... dude had zero toss and served the ball fast right out of his hand to Mr Ju. I raised my hand, called let, stated the ball was not tossed 6 inches and provided the visual sign. Seconds later, dude served again... the very same fast serve out of his hand. I raised my hand and called point for team Ju Mingwei. Mr Ju had a tiny acknowledging smile, like he never saw an umpire call an illegal serve.

Both the player and dozens of the crowd watching were in shock at the gall of the umpire to call an illegal serve... and count the point against the illegal server... after all, such a thing is very normal and accepted in the club and by those of the player's ethnicity/age/culture at their play level.

That player's partner served next time around... she served it with an entirely backwards toss right onto her racket... I immediately raised my hand and called point for team Ju Mingwei. The crowd was in shock again. they sent their club president to replace me as scorekeeper.

Very soon afterwards, I was replaced as scorekeeper. I got the Trump treatment... Youuuuurrrrrreeee Fired !

I never had such a grand time ever being fired in my life. I spent the rest of the match joking with Ju Mingwei's translator about how umpires are afraid to call illegal serves (and be blacklisted) and how I had to pay the price for calling the illegal serve illegal. I wasn't getting paid and I had no connection with that venue's club, so I was not concerned, nor would I be if the situation was different. It was easy to laugh that one off and have a good time over it.

Before my next visit to Table Tennis America TTC, I will need to learn the Chinese phrase for REPLACE THAT UMPIRE ! If I can learn that and say that to Ju Mingwei as a form of saying hello, I think that would be a riot.
you should of replace this dude

Question was, what do you do?
Answer - call for Der_Echte
 
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Rule 2.6.4 (...and behind the server's end line...) is the current disaster in table tennis. 80% of all top players sin against that and no referee has the guts to say anything about this.
I'm probably a bit late to joining this thread but i was watching a Liang Jingkun game at durban and I thought it was remarkable how many serves that if were done at the local club I would call out for being illegal. He hit almost all of the serves while the ball was over the table.
 
says Table tennis clown
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Yes, they can. The problem concerns only the lower league games, in which there are no official umpires.

And in torunaments you always have umpires at least around if not right at the table.

Yeah in third world country you have at least internet almost everywhere. For the requirements of being an umpire you probably even get tested on PAPER!
to be frank, I don't think i have ever seen an umpire in my life. One of the clubs here has got a qualified coach, but he does not coach.
I'm probably a bit late to joining this thread but i was watching a Liang Jingkun game at durban and I thought it was remarkable how many serves that if were done at the local club I would call out for being illegal. He hit almost all of the serves while the ball was over the table.
I always felt that Wang Chuqin was hitting the ball late, as in over the table.
 
I'm probably a bit late to joining this thread but i was watching a Liang Jingkun game at durban and I thought it was remarkable how many serves that if were done at the local club I would call out for being illegal. He hit almost all of the serves while the ball was over the table.
Also him indeed!
 
I always felt that Wang Chuqin was hitting the ball late, as in over the table.
And indeed, also Wang Chuqin.
Like I wrote, 80% of the top 20 players sin there.
Ma Long, never
Fan, frequently
Truls, never
Lim, allways,
Hugo, rarely
Harimoto, most of the time never, but sporadically
Wang, most of the time
Liang, most of the time
Lin Yun-Ju, many times
Ovtcharov, never
ect...
 
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to be frank, I don't think i have ever seen an umpire in my life. One of the clubs here has got a qualified coach, but he does not coach.
Ah come down to Table Tennis Canterbury for a tournament, we have a lot of older ITTF umpires and a few newly qualified ones such as myself and my brother, we are only level 2 though but we do have a few level 3 umpires here.
 
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The main benefit to serving closer to the end line is that there's less reaction time available to the opponent because the time to the first bounce is vastly decreased. Also there's less information about the ball trajectory which means more chance for misreading the serve.

Most pros now do it at the borderline to take advantage of this. Very hard to catch because it could literally be mm away from the end line.

As for hiding serve according to the rules, it's the ball that cannot be hidden (at all times), not the racket. As long as the ball is visible at all times (thus ensuring that contact point can be visible), racket can be hid in whatever way prior to contact and after contact. This is how a lot of the pros serve and it's not necessarily illegal. But a lot are hiding the ball with the head (won't name the players, some are more blatant than the others)
 
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The main benefit to serving closer to the end line is that there's less reaction time available to the opponent because the time to the first bounce is vastly decreased. Also there's less information about the ball trajectory which means more chance for misreading the serve.

Most pros now do it at the borderline to take advantage of this. Very hard to catch because it could literally be mm away from the end line.

As for hiding serve according to the rules, it's the ball that cannot be hidden (at all times), not the racket. As long as the ball is visible at all times (thus ensuring that contact point can be visible), racket can be hid in whatever way prior to contact and after contact. This is how a lot of the pros serve and it's not necessarily illegal. But a lot are hiding the ball with the head (won't name the players, some are more blatant than the others)

YES.

I see so many players on serve impact ball one to two feet behind the endline... give opponents way moar time and makes it much harder to land ball on server's endline for the fast/deep serves.
 
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Ovtcharov, never
ect...
Ovtcharov has been called fault on his serves many times. Not sure about nowadays. He has been playing very poorly lately that I don't really follow his matches that much anymore. But he used to throw his ball side ways. It is very distracting. Some serves I would even say he is kind of throwing the ball into his paddle.
 
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There's so much deceptive fake movements in high level serves that imo, you can't rely 100% on information gleaned during contact, but rather watch the ball trajectory and read it like a hawk, that also allows you to be a lot more precise in the receive.

I would say that contact info only tells you roughly what possibilities are there for the serve, and you have to then read the ball trajectory and bounce to identify the actual spin on the ball.

I'm also trying to develop this kind of ability, so that I won't be that vulnerable to good deceptive servers.
 
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says Table tennis clown
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YES.

I see so many players on serve impact ball one to two feet behind the endline... give opponents way moar time and makes it much harder to land ball on server's endline for the fast/deep serves.
It also gives you more time to prepare for the return. And it’s easier to put high spin on the serve.

Cheers
L-zr
 
Ovtcharov has been called fault on his serves many times. Not sure about nowadays. He has been playing very poorly lately that I don't really follow his matches that much anymore. But he used to throw his ball side ways. It is very distracting. Some serves I would even say he is kind of throwing the ball into his paddle.
Yes I know that, but no wrong service by serving over his baseline and so above the table.
 
The main benefit to serving closer to the end line is that there's less reaction time available to the opponent because the time to the first bounce is vastly decreased. Also there's less information about the ball trajectory which means more chance for misreading the serve.
As I wrote above, they make the playing field remarkably smaller with all the consequences for their opponent.
And that result is what you write above.
Delete that part from rule 2.6.4 if the umpires do not rebuke it anyway but should normally call a let.
 
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