Timo Boll Spirit

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After a brief examination of the forum's stats, I see the thread about Timo Boll's Facebook is more active.

Help me out. What would dude's FB status do to get more action on this forum than a thread about possibly the best made blade - ever?

Maybe there are many photos of scantily clad attractive women on his FB. Who knows?
 
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Butterfly Viscaria and Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit

Background:
Both blades are part of Butterfly's famous Arylate-Carbon series, which stresses a large sweet spot, vibration control, and crisp feeling while also maintaining blade feeling and control as a result of the combination of carbon and arylate fibers. The Viscaria model was the predecessor to the TBS, and many professionals including Timo Boll used it during the earlier parts of their career before their signature blades were created. Famous players who are currently using the Viscaria include Zhang Jike; Michael Maze is currently using the TBS. The ALC series remain a classic and are still widely used by both amateurs and professionals; they are one of the less expensive BTY line of blades (since it is older), but they retain the premium look, feel, and playability of high quality Butterfly products.

Notes:
Rubbers used in this comparative review are Stiga Calibra LT (Max) on the FH and Joola Express II (Max) on the BH. Exact weights are unknown, although both feel about the same in mass (I'm guessing in the range of 85-90 g).

Construction:
TBS = Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-ALC-Koto --> 5.7 mm thickness
Viscaria = Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-ALC-Koto --> 5.8 mm thickness

The Viscaria FL handle is notably thicker than the TBS FL handle.

Speed: TBS (faster) > Viscaria (slower) (close-table) Viscaria > TBS (off-table)
Hard to tell after only one session with the Viscaria (been playing with the TBS for several months now). More info to come after a few more hits with the new setup; however, my intial impression is that the Viscaria is slightly slower.

Stiffness: Viscaria (flexier) < TBS (stiffer)
My initial impressions are that the Viscaria is just a tad more flexy than the TBS. Calibra LT is a low-throw, long-trajectory rubber; when I first started with the TBS setup, shots were either getting put into the bottom of the net, or they were lifting past the table with a very flat (but spinny) trajectory. However, these issues were easily adapted to with an adjustment in stroke and technique. With the Viscaria setup, I still had that same flat-long trajectory, but I was hitting on the table. I felt that the Viscaria setup was more forgiving in this respect.

Hardness: Viscaria (softer) < TBS (harder)
The Viscaria definitely felt softer, yet it retained the "crispness" that I observed in the TBS. I'm guessing the crisp originates from the structure of the blades (i.e. the Koto outer and the ALC). The Viscaria has one of the best blends of crisp-softness I've seen in a composite blade. But if you like pure crisp feeling, the TBS is the way to go.

Vibration: Viscaria (more vibration) > TBS (less vibration)
Although the vibration is very subtle, I noticed that the Viscaria was less dead and "non-responsive" than the TBS. However, the vibration was minimal (not nearly as responsive as an all-wood blade or soft carbon, for example). In that respect, the Viscaria is a composite with good feeling and touch.

The Viscaria is faster away from the table, while the TBS is faster close to the table.
 
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TBS very nice blade, slower than PC and SC but still has enough power for high level games with a good control, quality is great only downside is the steep price:(, Xiom stradivarius more or less is in the same league and a little cheaper but still expensive though. BTW which would you guys prefer TBS or Viscaria?
 
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TBS FTW! Having said that Viscaria is not a chump, a great blade proven over time.

My TBS with Aurus and XP 2008 with NO grip tape is mid 180s grams. With the grip tape it is mid 190s. With or without grip tape, TBS is kinda heavy. That is fine by me. TBS is a very balanced blade. Does not feel top-heavy, even with heavy rubbers like T05. When I had T05 and 999 over heavy quattro sponge and grip tape, the blade weighed just under 210 grams. It was still very balanced and played great!
 
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TBS FTW! Having said that Viscaria is not a chump, a great blade proven over time.

My TBS with Aurus and XP 2008 with NO grip tape is mid 180s grams. With the grip tape it is mid 190s. With or without grip tape, TBS is kinda heavy. That is fine by me. TBS is a very balanced blade. Does not feel top-heavy, even with heavy rubbers like T05. When I had T05 and 999 over heavy quattro sponge and grip tape, the blade weighed just under 210 grams. It was still very balanced and played great!

ok, but what made you choose TBS over Viscaria? is the balance of viscaria not that good?
 
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Butterfly Viscaria and Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit

Construction:
TBS = Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-ALC-Koto --> 5.7 mm thickness
Viscaria = Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-ALC-Koto --> 5.8 mm thickness

This is interesting. I have seen other places that say Viscaria has Kiri as the core. And then there is this:

"Combines the Arylate features of lightness, flexibility, and shock absorption (less vibration) with the Carbon features of high elasticity (springiness) and minimal dissipation of energy (energy not wasted, more power). Koto outer plies, Balsa center ply. VISCARIA's compact head size makes it ideal for quick re-looping right off the bounce."

That came from here: http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=b-viscaria

But I believe that came from Butterfly originally.

Now perhaps there are Viscarias that have Kiri as the core but I know the one I have has a Balsa core.
 
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This is interesting. I have seen other places that say Viscaria has Kiri as the core. And then there is this:

"Combines the Arylate features of lightness, flexibility, and shock absorption (less vibration) with the Carbon features of high elasticity (springiness) and minimal dissipation of energy (energy not wasted, more power). Koto outer plies, Balsa center ply. VISCARIA's compact head size makes it ideal for quick re-looping right off the bounce."

That came from here: http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=b-viscaria

But I believe that came from Butterfly originally.

Now perhaps there are Viscarias that have Kiri as the core but I know the one I have has a Balsa core.

is the 1 that you have the old model viscaria? i have a new model viscaria which i think has a kiri core, but im not sure what really is the wood, but 1 things for sure its not limba because its hard not other limbas that ive seen i which you can easily make a dent using your nails.
 
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is the 1 that you have the old model viscaria? i have a new model viscaria which i think has a kiri core, but im not sure what really is the wood, but 1 things for sure its not limba because its hard not other limbas that ive seen i which you can easily make a dent using your nails.

Funny, I was thinking that the old model was Kiri and then they changed it to Balsa after they made the TB ALC or Spirit. Not sure. But I think mine is a newer model. And the ones I have felt that are newer than mine are Balsa. ZJK blade felt to me like it was Balsa core as well.
 
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Funny, I was thinking that the old model was Kiri and then they changed it to Balsa after they made the TB ALC or Spirit. Not sure. But I think mine is a newer model. And the ones I have felt that are newer than mine are Balsa. ZJK blade felt to me like it was Balsa core as well.

sorry i meant balsa not limba
 
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if its balsa then its actually harder than any balsa that ive seen but balsa or not it still plays great, mine is exactly 91 grams, most of the balsa blades that i have are lightweight

I was trying to figure this out for a while. Mine is 91 grams as well and for a while I did not believe it was Balsa because of the weight, but, I was wondering what they could have found to play so much like Balsa. Then I realized it really is Balsa. I think that Butterfly just treats the wood. I am not sure what they do, but they tend to make their wood denser and more solid, whereas a company like Stiga seems to make the wood more porous so that you get more feeling from the wood.

But if you have ever hit with another Balsa blade and then you feel the Viscaria, you can tell the feeling of Balsa. Unless there are Viscarias out there with a Kiri core. Again, I have never seen this, but I have heard many people on line say that the Viscaria has Kiri. So it is possible that they make some with Kiri or used to. But Kiri and Balsa play VERY differently. If you were handed a blade with this construction:

Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-ALC-Koto

And one with this construction:

Koto-ALC-Limba-Balsa-Limba-ALC-Koto

I am sure you would be able to tell which one had Balsa just by feeling the playing characteristics of the two blades. I know I would be able to feel the difference and they feel different enough that I think most people would be able to feel it.
 
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Looks like balsa to me...

I won't judge just from a picture. I it is very different than having the wood there in front of you to see and feel. But that does look a lot like Balsa from the picture. :)
 
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if its balsa then its actually harder than any balsa that ive seen but balsa or not it still plays great, mine is exactly 91 grams, most of the balsa blades that i have are lightweight

I won't judge just from a picture. I it is very different than having the wood there in front of you to see and feel. But that does look a lot like Balsa from the picture. :)

I have the viscaria and the treatment/grains of the core looks exactly like the one I have. I tried to put a nail mark in the core of my blade and it feels quite soft as balsa is.

The weight could be caused by the method of gluing. The properties of the glue/matrix have a lot to say - here I mean density.
 
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to be able to compare, have you guys ever tried a real balsa blade?
like joola mc1

How about one of those Gewo Balsa blades? :) I have used the Gewo 4.5, 6.5 and a Yasaka Balsa Plus. I know what Balsa feels like.

I still am guessing that there are Viscarias out there that have a Kiri core and others that have a Balsa core. I know the one I have has a Balsa core. And the ones I have tried that are not mine, also had Balsa cores. Balsa has a very distinct feeling. That is why I am confident that, if someone handed me two blades and one had a Balsa core and the other had a Kiri core, and they had the same markings and handle and were presented as the same blade, I would be able to tell which one had the Balsa core.

But, in the end, you also have to wonder, why would Butterfly say that the core of a Viscaria is Balsa if it was Kiri and they never made the Viscaria with a Balsa core?
 
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But, in the end, you also have to wonder, why would Butterfly say that the core of a Viscaria is Balsa if it was Kiri and they never made the Viscaria with a Balsa core?

I have to agree with Carl here.... I would be stupid of Butterfly to state it has a balsa core if it's not ;)
 
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