Why do people say LP's should be banned?

[Metaxa]

This dude isn't a penholder but saw this video today and was reminded of your comment about LP player with FH loopkill ability.

For sure, definitely the better (acrobatic)garage-player!

 

[ViperTableTennis]

I am confused here because this thread only talks about “Why do people say LP's should be banned?”

As you can see , there is overwhelming support to get pips banned and obviously most if not all players totally hate pips and realize it is bad for the sport.
We have clearly proven here to ITTF that MOST people do want pips banned

So shouldn't the right questions be

Why hasn’t ITTF banned pips yet ?

Will they EVER ban pips ?

I think we must focus on organized effort in educating ITTF folks and getting pips banned and not waste time discussing it here

I've not seen anything to suggest there is "overwhelming support" to get pips banned amongst the global table tennis community....and of course the membership of this forum is not representative of the global table tennis community, so even if the entirety of people posting here wanted pips banned, that would not be a justification for ITTF to take such a position. Pips-out are the original table tennis rubber; they were literally being used decades before inverted rubbers were introduced...for that reason alone the likelihood of pips-out rubber being banned is virtually zero.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I've not seen anything to suggest there is "overwhelming support" to get pips banned amongst the global table tennis community....and of course the membership of this forum is not representative of the global table tennis community, so even if the entirety of people posting here wanted pips banned, that would not be a justification for ITTF to take such a position. Pips-out are the original table tennis rubber; they were literally being used decades before inverted rubbers were introduced...for that reason alone the likelihood of pips-out rubber being banned is virtually zero.

The post you're quoting is written by infamous and long-time table tennis forum troll Srinivas Janhardanan, more commonly known as 'sjan,' and more recently going by the name 'James Z'

He is known to create various fake profiles to flame and bait on forums, and has been trolling table tennis forums since about as long as they have existed.

You can tell it is sjan by the syntax in his posts where he often leaves a space before the period or commo, he often starts his posts with an 'I' statement such as "I am confused" in this case, and often brings ITTF or governing bodies/officials/events into mention (keywords such as Petra Sorling, Durban, ITTF, JTTAA, USATT, IOC, LARC etc.). His accounts will almost always be very new and/or have very few posts, the account usernames commonly include a real life name in them (in this case, Lin), his equipment signature will often contain the bare minimum of information and it's very common that his posts will be edited. Another common tell is that he is almost exclusively the only person who will post in varying text boldness or font colorings. Often it is easy enough to discern if it is sjan or not due to the topic of his posts, as he often only asks questions or puts out statements aimed to instigate argument or flame-baiting, the more of his posts you see the easier you will recognize them.

 

[NextLevel]

The post you're quoting is written by infamous and long-time table tennis forum troll Srinivas Janhardanan, more commonly known as 'sjan,' and more recently going by the name 'James Z'

He is known to create various fake profiles to flame and bait on forums, and has been trolling table tennis forums since about as long as they have existed.

You can tell it is sjan by the syntax in his posts where he often leaves a space before the period or commo, he often starts his posts with an 'I' statement such as "I am confused" in this case, and often brings ITTF or governing bodies/officials/events into mention (keywords such as Petra Sorling, Durban, ITTF, JTTAA, USATT, IOC, LARC etc.). His accounts will almost always be very new and/or have very few posts, the account usernames commonly include a real life name in them (in this case, Lin), his equipment signature will often contain the bare minimum of information and it's very common that his posts will be edited. Another common tell is that he is almost exclusively the only person who will post in varying text boldness or font colorings. Often it is easy enough to discern if it is sjan or not due to the topic of his posts, as he often only asks questions or puts out statements aimed to instigate argument or flame-baiting, the more of his posts you see the easier you will recognize them.

I find it impossible to detect SJAN and yet you do it with ease! Wow...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The post you're quoting is written by infamous and long-time table tennis forum troll Srinivas Janhardanan, more commonly known as 'sjan,' and more recently going by the name 'James Z'

He is known to create various fake profiles to flame and bait on forums, and has been trolling table tennis forums since about as long as they have existed.

You can tell it is sjan by the syntax in his posts where he often leaves a space before the period or commo, he often starts his posts with an 'I' statement such as "I am confused" in this case, and often brings ITTF or governing bodies/officials/events into mention (keywords such as Petra Sorling, Durban, ITTF, JTTAA, USATT, IOC, LARC etc.). His accounts will almost always be very new and/or have very few posts, the account usernames commonly include a real life name in them (in this case, Lin), his equipment signature will often contain the bare minimum of information and it's very common that his posts will be edited. Another common tell is that he is almost exclusively the only person who will post in varying text boldness or font colorings. Often it is easy enough to discern if it is sjan or not due to the topic of his posts, as he often only asks questions or puts out statements aimed to instigate argument or flame-baiting, the more of his posts you see the easier you will recognize them.

Shhhhh....you will give away the secret about how you find him so easily.

 

[piligrim]

The post you're quoting is written by infamous and long-time table tennis forum troll Srinivas Janhardanan, more commonly known as 'sjan,' and more recently going by the name 'James Z'

He is known to create various fake profiles to flame and bait on forums, and has been trolling table tennis forums since about as long as they have existed.

You can tell it is sjan by the syntax in his posts where he often leaves a space before the period or commo, he often starts his posts with an 'I' statement such as "I am confused" in this case, and often brings ITTF or governing bodies/officials/events into mention (keywords such as Petra Sorling, Durban, ITTF, JTTAA, USATT, IOC, LARC etc.). His accounts will almost always be very new and/or have very few posts, the account usernames commonly include a real life name in them (in this case, Lin), his equipment signature will often contain the bare minimum of information and it's very common that his posts will be edited. Another common tell is that he is almost exclusively the only person who will post in varying text boldness or font colorings. Often it is easy enough to discern if it is sjan or not due to the topic of his posts, as he often only asks questions or puts out statements aimed to instigate argument or flame-baiting, the more of his posts you see the easier you will recognize them.

Thank you VERY MUCH from ITTF, JTTA AND USATT

 

[Johnniedarko]

Wow! This thread has entered into its 20th page. This thread should have ended with Pips are GHEY post. Period.

Just stop with the gay joke already. 10% of the world is gay, and so is the TT community. Be more respectful.

 

[Loop Lob Smash]

Just stop with the gay joke already. 10% of the world is gay, and so is the TT community. Be more respectful.

All of the table tennis community though? That would make us a very exclusive group!

 

[Der_Echte]

Shhhhh....you will give away the secret about how you find him so easily.

He always gotta mention hiz best buddie Larry too.

 

[Peter93]

Well I see this guy performing a flat shot that is producing a dead-ball. That's expected. Like a chop block or a dead-serve, the awkwardness of the ball is a direct result of the player's technique.

What I have advocated in my first post is that LP allows a player to produce topspin from a under-cutting push stroke and that is fundamentally unnatural and unfair. And LP allows a player to produce heavy underspin from a regular topspin stroke hitting over the ball. None of this is due to the technique of the player, but purely enabled by the equipment that doesn't follow the same natural rules as 97% of the other equipment.

Unsurprisingly one of the most outspoken critics of long pips doesn't even know how they work lmao

 

[TensorBackhand]

Unsurprisingly one of the most outspoken critics of long pips doesn't even know how they work lmao

I do understand how it works. I didn't say they can produce topspin or underspin at will any time they want. It depends on the spin of the incoming shot.

My point is that the equipment enables them to make unnatural spin that does not follow the same physical pattern as other rubbers.

Don't even pretend for one moment like every single LP player doesn't know this. LP players pick LP specifically for the purpose of confusing the opponent, because of the unnatural spin pattern. There is literally no benefit to using LP apart from it's natural deception. If you watch LP players warm up, they will often avoid using their LP before the match starts so that their opponent doesn't get a chance to see the deceptive spin. Every single LP players knows that deception is the key. Even during a match, lower level LP players will often move over to touch every ball possible with the LP side of their racket, just to make sure the opponent never gets "normal" return.

 

[Peter93]

I do understand how it works. I didn't say they can produce topspin or underspin at will any time they want. It depends on the spin of the incoming shot.

My point is that the equipment enables them to make unnatural spin that does not follow the same physical pattern as other rubbers.

You clearly don't if you think "And LP allows a player to produce heavy underspin from a regular topspin stroke hitting over the ball." is true. Naturally you think long pips are deceptive when you don't know what they're actually doing.

 

[TensorBackhand]

You clearly don't if you think "And LP allows a player to produce heavy underspin from a regular topspin stroke hitting over the ball." is true. Naturally you think long pips are deceptive when you don't know what they're actually doing.

Well we disagree. I could care less if you agree or disagree.

In my experience, if you do a heavy topspin loop to LP that blocks the shot with a forward motion that normally would produce topspin, the ball will come back as heavy underspin. That is my finding and nothing will change my opinion.

 

[TensorBackhand]

You clearly don't if you think "And LP allows a player to produce heavy underspin from a regular topspin stroke hitting over the ball." is true. Naturally you think long pips are deceptive when you don't know what they're actually doing.

But your own words betray you as well. The very fact that you point out the confusion and haziness of how LP works is the very same reason people think it should be banned.

The argument for banning it is because of the very fact that you pointed out, there is significant confusion and deception in LP.

 

[TensorBackhand]

 

[TensorBackhand]

Here is how LP produces topspin from a push stroke:

 

[piligrim]

I do understand how it works. I didn't say they can produce topspin or underspin at will any time they want. It depends on the spin of the incoming shot.

My point is that the equipment enables them to make unnatural spin that does not follow the same physical pattern as other rubbers.

Don't even pretend for one moment like every single LP player doesn't know this. LP players pick LP specifically for the purpose of confusing the opponent, because of the unnatural spin pattern. There is literally no benefit to using LP apart from it's natural deception. If you watch LP players warm up, they will often avoid using their LP before the match starts so that their opponent doesn't get a chance to see the deceptive spin. Every single LP players knows that deception is the key. Even during a match, lower level LP players will often move over to touch every ball possible with the LP side of their racket, just to make sure the opponent never gets "normal" return.

If it was true LP players would beat everybody, at least players around there level, but it doesn't happen

 

[NextLevel]

Well we disagree. I could care less if you agree or disagree.

In my experience, if you do a heavy topspin loop to LP that blocks the shot with a forward motion that normally would produce topspin, the ball will come back as heavy underspin. That is my finding and nothing will change my opinion.

Usually, it would kill the spin on the ball - it is a chop block that produces heavy underspin, it is hard to hit a topspin ball with pips and create heavy backspin. In any case, you are the expert in what you have experienced, thanks for sharing.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Usually, it would kill the spin on the ball - it is a chop block that produces heavy underspin, it is hard to hit a topspin ball with pips and create heavy backspin. In any case, you are the expert in what you have experienced, thanks for sharing.

Missing the forest for the trees.

You are free to think whatever you want. But to set the record straight: YES, with LP you can hit a topspin shot with a slice and you can hit a underspin shot with a forward topspin motion.

 

[Johnniedarko]

The text in that animation litterally says that the stroke reduces the amouny of spin on the ball.

So while your topspin gets returned as backspin by the LP, it is less spin than what you gave it. Of course if you gave it topspin from hell, it'll still be a lot of backspin you get back.

The reason people disagree with you, is because you say the LP generate spin. As in: add more spin. And that doesn't happen with the strokes in your animations. Maybe the disagreement is just over the interpretation of the word generate.

Theoretically, spin increase could happen with this bat angle, if the pips are flicked in some way during the contact, like a whip. That would require the bats motion to stop and reverse however, so that's not the same stroke as in the pictures. I don't want to discredit your experience, perhaps your opponents do that, but I dont know if that's possible in reality.