World Table Tennis Championships 2017

[UpSideDownCarl]

Not agreeing at all with you

1) Lot of (digital) ink about Harimoto's tchoooing but he's far from being the loudest player in the circuit. Dima, Freitas, the Japanese Doubles (Oshima/Morizono), Szocs, the lesser known Jin or Chan in Japan, come into my mind, but there's many others.

2) Harimoto is not intimidating his opponents and is never disloyal. If you do observe him well, he NEVER makes eye contact with his opponent to intimidate them. Many players always do that, especially when tchoooing, XU Xin included. Thats intimidation. Nor does Harimoto talk or complain. He systematically apologizes after a net or edge ball. Chinese players, men or women are notorious for not (always) apologizing on those balls.

In his interviews, Harimoto is really humble. He's a good kid. You've probably never seen a TV program on him.

3) XU Xin is an a$$hole, yes, i'm not afraid to say it. Look at some of his close games in recent years with his foreign adversaries. Or his attitude when he's bored and wins too easily. For example, Watch him against Mattenet in some open, or against Wong Chuting in Japan Open last year

4) it may not have come to your mind, but he's only 13, physiologically his body is not producing enough testosterone yet. Shouting is primarily a way to keep him pumped and focused, its not destined to trouble the opponent, this is only a side effect. Pros handle tchooos every tournament from other players. But it seems many can't handle the pressure of a tchooo when its a kid , not an adult doing it.

5) Look at how he played Mizutani. They're friends. Its his idol, they train together, did he stop his tchoooing ? had Mizutani any problem with it ? Did he complain about it ??? Did you see what he did and read what he said when he lost ?

and nope its not sore loser stuff, if you quote me, quote me all, i DID write XX was the better player. but HE was the one with the pitiful attitude, as usual.

First off, I took whole quotes. I did not edit your quotes.

Second off, if you are rationalizing why it is okay for Harimoto to tcho and insisting it isn't okay for XX to, then we are going to have to agree to disagree.

XX, as far as I am concerned has always been pretty easy going and has always been a good sportsman. I am really not sure what you are talking about about him, but, clearly, you don't like the guy and that is your business. But your arguments seem completely weird when you are trying to rationalize why it is okay for one player to behave a certain way and it is not okay for another player to give the same right back.

So, as I said, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Nope they are NOT behaving in the same way. XU Xin is not tchooing only. If he just did that, it would be ok for me.

He's always doing many other dirty tricks; not only to Harimoto. He even got a rare yellow card against Harimoto for his unsportsmanship if you noticed

You're not reading what I'm writing, and yes, we will agree to disagree. XU Xin is the scum of the CNT. MA Long or FAN Zhendong are way more talented than XU Xin and would never do that. Actually MA Long played HARIMOTO recently. Nor even would ZJK even though the guy more than once has had bad attitude on the court

and yes, you're editing me. Because you're accusing me of being a sore loser in your post #925 while i acknowledged 2 times XU Xin's superiority in #891 and #911.

 

[NextLevel]

I watched XX vs. Harimoto match and have to admit that Harimoto's tchoing is not that bad. Previously it was much worse: he used to arch his back and yell at the ceiling for like 30 seconds. I was afraid he was going to injure his spine oneday. That was obnoxious. Now he does not tcho more than other players.

It is *much* better, but it is still obnoxious. And you cannot disregard the impact on the opponent. There is a reason why players do it and why player are encouraged to do it, it just multiplies the feeling you have when your play is ineffective. I agree it can pump you up, but the question is how long it happens for and why it is so long.

Part of the reason it is more annoying when kids and women do it is because of the pitch of the voice. They once looked at grunts in tennis and noted that the deeper ones are less offensive and easier to tie to effort.

The other thing is how long the grunt is post the event that triggered it. This is where Harimoto has gotten better.

What has not gotten much better is that he does it on every point and it isn't easy to tie the celebration or noise to the effort all the time. This has a way of entering an opponent's head. It is easy to dismiss when the gap between you and your opponent is large, but when things are close, every small thing can make you play worse. I have seen good players grab friends to come in and cheer them when they are struggling in matches because people are cheering against them. I know what it is like to play in hostile clubs against kids where everyone else is cheering against you because the kid is coached at that club.

What Xu Xin did was cede that his opponent was good enough to beat him. Same with Ding Ning.

 

[NextLevel]

Why do you guys complain about Harimoto? Today Dima too was tchoooing nearly every point against the very silent Niwa....

First of all, this is not true, and I don't know why you have to claim it. Dima can celebrate loudly to get himself going but he does not tcho every point. His celebrations vary in intensity and get louder as the match gets closer but are often very short and just "hooope" or something like that. With Harimoto, the intensity is almost always the same, making it feel more like a practiced thing scripted to the last detail.

And Niwa too was getting into it - it is all relative to the character. But that was the most intense I have ever seen Niwa. While I wish he had lost as I would have preferred to see Dima play FZD, I was happy for Niwa. He gets a lot of crap for his personality.

 

[laistrogian]

Nope they are NOT behaving in the same way. XU Xin is not tchooing only. If he just did that, it would be ok for me.

He's always doing many other dirty tricks; not only to Harimoto. He even got a rare yellow card against Harimoto for his unsportsmanship if you noticed

You're not reading what I'm writing, and yes, we will agree to disagree. XU Xin is the scum of the CNT. MA Long or FAN Zhendong are way more talented than XU Xin and would never do that. Actually MA Long played HARIMOTO recently. Nor even would ZJK even though the guy more than once has had bad attitude on the court

and yes, you're editing me. Because you're accusing me of being a sore loser in your post #925 while i acknowledged 2 times XU Xin's superiority in #891 and #911.

I just watched the match between the two and I find XX attitude to be somewhat normal. When you find someone like harimoto who just start choo-ing every point, sometimes you just gotta choo back to assert yourself and to counter the mind game. Not to mention the pyschological annoyance being choo-ed by a brat half your age.

Had to play a polish kid last week and he's an absolute shitty brat. Throws ball all over the place when giving it back to me, yelling at me when he just starts serving right after i passed him the ball and haven't re-positioned myself and he would start saying some stuffs every time he got a point. I choo-ed the crap out of him in return, did not feel bad one bit because he was just being a shitty kid and what's more shitty is his dad didn't say warn him about it.

I'm just gonna rant at this point but some people are just absolutely disrespectful and unsportmanship during a match. We are playing a sport, not doing some street brawling.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

First of all, this is not true, and I don't know why you have to claim it. Dima can celebrate loudly to get himself going but he does not tcho every point. His celebrations vary in intensity and get louder as the match gets closer but are often very short and just "hooope" or something like that. With Harimoto, the intensity is almost always the same, making it feel more like a practiced thing scripted to the last detail.

And Niwa too was getting into it - it is all relative to the character. But that was the most intense I have ever seen Niwa. While I wish he had lost as I would have preferred to see Dima play FZD, I was happy for Niwa. He gets a lot of crap for his personality.

I say that because i watched the whole match. If you haven't, I've posted the link above. If you already have, watch it again and turn the sound on.

I'm myself a tchoooer, and I just don't agree with anything you say about tchoooooing.
I do it mainly to pump myself. And I'm totally prepared if the other guy tchooos. It actually pumps me more.

I used to be more annoyed when a silent guy suddenly starts tchooooing just before a set point or match point for the first time, but I don't even care anymore. I actually like the thrill of the challenge. actually i posted recently a video where that was the case (with a good ending for me )

Last year, I played 2 very good kids in the same tournament who were tchoooing every point as well, and i didn't change anything so it was a loud match. I remember as 2 very open games, it was close i could have won both, but i lost both. But i had a lot of fun, there were a lot of nice points and rallies, its a good memory for me. and I congratulated them with a smile, no problem.

I'm worried when I get silent, it means that I'm losing my focus and the match.

If you look at my videos, i tchoooo a lot, but you will never see an opponent angry at me about that in the end, and its always nice handshakes. Because I'm fair play and not menacing. Harimoto is the same. He's fairplay and always respectful of the other guy, contrarily to what you assert.

Athletes who are annoyed at him and put too much emphasis on his tchooo should focus on their own game.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I just watched the match between the two and I find XX attitude to be somewhat normal. When you find someone like harimoto who just start choo-ing every point, sometimes you just gotta choo back to assert yourself and to counter the mind game. Not to mention the pyschological annoyance being choo-ed by a brat half your age.

Had to play a polish kid last week and he's an absolute shitty brat. Throws ball all over the place when giving it back to me, yelling at me when he just starts serving right after i passed him the ball and haven't re-positioned myself and he would start saying some stuffs every time he got a point. I choo-ed the crap out of him in return, did not feel bad one bit because he was just being a shitty kid and what's more shitty is his dad didn't say warn him about it.

I'm just gonna rant at this point but some people are just absolutely disrespectful and unsportmanship during a match. We are playing a sport, not doing some street brawling.

don't know anything about your Polish kid, but tchoooing by itself is NOT disrespectful

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

And as far as I can see, in watching the match between XX and Harimoto, over at my own leisure, XX won, and therefore had to win more points, and still, Harimoto tchoed more than XX.

I think Harimoto played a great match. I think he played great against XX. I think he frustrated him and made XX work hard. I think Harimoto caught XX in the body trying to turn to his FH deep in the BH side many times. I think Harimoto caught XX trying to turn to the FH on the BH side and went down the line on him. I think Harimoto actually got inside XX's head. And I don't see any problem with how XX celebrated the close points he won.

It would have been fun to see Harimoto get passed XX. And I think it won't be long before he can. I think XX really limits himself by wanting to play his FH from every part of the table. But I can't see how someone would have a problem with how XX played and behaved in that match. Especially with the fact that Harimoto really pushed XX even though the score was 4-1 in games. And tactically, for a lot of the match, Harimoto outmaneuvered XX. That plus the kid's tchoing had to be frustrating for XX.

So, overall, great match and great tournament for Harimoto. But XX did what he needed to to win. I could see that match easily going the other way if a few critical points came out differently.

 

[laistrogian]

don't know anything about your Polish kid, but tchoooing by itself is NOT disrespectful

No, it's not disrespectful but the depending the way you do it, it can be. One of the players I really like when it comes down to choo-ing is Marcos Freitas. You can see how his voice goes up when choo-ing depending on the situation and the rally. His opponent missed a loop early on, low voice. But when he wins a big rally or an important point, you can see his intensity. Even mizutani, one of the players who choo really hard and pretty often, still follows this.

When you play a young kid who choo really hard when you miss your 3rd ball when you are up 9-4, who wouldn't be pissed. Like calm the f*ck down kid

 

[NextLevel]

I say that because i watched the whole match. If you haven't, I've posted the link above. If you already have, watch it again and turn the sound on.

I'm myself a tchoooer, and I just don't agree with anything you say about tchoooooing.
I do it mainly to pump myself. And I'm totally prepared if the other guy tchooos. It actually pumps me more.

I used to be more annoyed when a silent guy suddenly starts tchooooing just before a set point or match point for the first time, but I don't even care anymore. I actually like the thrill of the challenge. actually i posted recently a video where that was the case (with a good ending for me )

Last year, I played 2 very good kids in the same tournament who were tchoooing every point as well, and i didn't change anything so it was a loud match. I remember as 2 very open games, it was close i could have won both, but i lost both. But i had a lot of fun, there were a lot of nice points and rallies, its a good memory for me. and I congratulated them with a smile, no problem.

I'm worried when I get silent, it means that I'm losing my focus and the match.

If you look at my videos, i tchoooo a lot, but you will never see an opponent angry at me about that in the end, and its always nice handshakes. Because I'm fair play and not menacing. Harimoto is the same. He's fairplay and always respectful of the other guy, contrarily to what you assert.

Athletes who are annoyed at him and put too much emphasis on his tchooo should focus on their own game.

I can't go into every single detail about it since a lot of this is gut feeling but I watched the Dima-Niwa match live, I Watched it again in parts, and I am still lost on what you are trying to say.

Cultures are also different. I could probably tcho more if I was in Asia as it looks very normal. Even my man Azeez, he has his own chants. Timo is often going Gbosa! And anyone who has seen me play when I am animated or hears me cheering a friend in a close match knows "Cho! Come on, FIGHT!"

Harimoto is almost always choing exactly the same way very loud, while Dima varies his tone to the nature of the point like most players do. But Harimoto reminds me of the people who disturb the whole place with their Tchoing. But in any case, you have your own opinion on this and it works for you so I won't waste my time. I have no problem with people who tcho, I have a problem when people Tcho in ways that invade my space. Harimoto has gotten better but there were times when he used to tcho in a way that his lungs were about to explode. And on simple points too.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I can't go into every single detail about it since a lot of this is gut feeling but I watched the Dima-Niwa match live, I Watched it again in parts, and I am still lost on what you are trying to say.

Cultures are also different. I could probably tcho more if I was in Asia as it looks very normal. Even my man Azeez, he has his own chants. Timo is often going Gbosa! And anyone who has seen me play when I am animated or hears me cheering a friend in a close match knows "Cho! Come on, FIGHT!"

Harimoto is almost always choing exactly the same way very loud, while Dima varies his tone to the nature of the point like most players do. But Harimoto reminds me of the people who disturb the whole place with their Tchoing. But in any case, you have your own opinion on this and it works for you so I won't waste my time. I have no problem with people who tcho, I have a problem when people Tcho in ways that invade my space. Harimoto has gotten better but there were times when he used to tcho in a way that his lungs were about to explode. And on simple points too.

I'm trying to say that you can tchooo for yourself and you can tchoooo to your opponent. Harimoto mostly tchoooo's to himself... I have to admit I myself do both, LOL, but i don't abuse it.

Yes culture is different. As you know, I've played in the French league, and a lot of kids are more aggressive than in Japan. in Japan tchoooing is just part of the game. In France for a lot of those young kids, but even many seasoned adults, they would add the like of F... words and perhaps even insults between points, notably after the opponent got a lucky net or edge, or when pesting loud against the odd pimples player, something i've NEVER EVER seen in Japan.

 

[fxri]

anyone knows when will the semifinal take place (GMT) ?

 

[ajtatosmano2]

GUYS, WE HAVE A THREAD ABOUT CHOOING, SO STOP DISCUSSING IT HERE!!!
Sorry for the capitals, but it's ridiculous that everyone spams this thread with that nonsense.
I don't want to see it.

About the match:
I think Harimoto was awesome. In the first 3 set he could stay focused and read the spin properly. XX was insecure and he tried to break Harimoto's rithm. He wasn't really successful in that aspect, but he could find the right tactics and services. It's hard to fight with full effort and dynamism against a kid, that's why we could hear XX choong more than usual. After winning the 3rd game, XX got confidence and Harimoto lost his concentration. I think Harimoto's technique is sufficient to beat XX, but he has problems with dealing with his failures. Just look at his face after losing a point because the ball caught the net. It affects him. He blames himself for the fault (which is correct) but he can't 'let it go'. At least not when his opponent is leading.
Still, I am satiesfied with Harimoto, he showed that he is great both technically and tactically. It was simply genial how he could predict XX's reactions and use his weaknesses.
And I think he has the same talent as Boll paired with a much-much more aggressive style.

 

[NextLevel]

anyone knows when will the semifinal take place (GMT) ?

GMT +1, I believe so 9am.

Today's Matches​
	5/6 10:00 T1 Men's Singles 4​ MA Long CHN vs​ XU Xin CHN --- --- - 5/6 11:00 T1 Men's Singles 4​ LEE Sangsu KOR vs​ FAN Zhendong CHN --- --- - 5/6 12:00 T1 Women's Doubles 4​ FENG Tianwei SGP YU Mengyu SGP vs​ CHEN Meng CHN ZHU Yuling CHN --- --- - 5/6 13:00 T1 Women's Doubles 4​ DING Ning CHN LIU Shiwen CHN vs​ HAYATA Hina JPN ITO Mima JPN --- --- - 5/6 14:30 T1 Men's Singles 2​ --- --- --- vs​ --- --- --- --- --- - 5/6 15:30 T1 Women's Doubles 2​ --- --- --- --- --- --- vs​ --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -

 

[ttpshot]

Well, you know when they choo to intimidate you during the game because they really want you to know that they hate you.

This problem is more like whether we, as a spectator find players getting vocal all the time, find it annoying or not.
It's OK to say that I find Harimoto/Niwa/CJK annoying because of their behavior on the table. It's a matter of personal opinion. And if the player was deemed intimidating/bad sportsmanship, they'd get carded or fined so I'm happy to leave that to umpires.

 

[loss]

ohyah harimoto is a good kid xx is an aahole you're not a sore loser for sure

 

[tropical]

I like Harimoto. He tchooed but it is ok. Xuxin played a little trick. He waited long enough to disrupt Harimoto momentum. In dirty boxing or MMA people did whatever to win, but I do not like Xuxin attitude. Of course Xuxin is a much better player. My 2 cents, don't shoot me

 

[fais]

That's it, I'm going to start a new trend. I'm going to start cho-img as loud as I can on all the points I lose. It will be the greatest TT mind f*** of all time. If I ever face Harimoto, I'm going to cho louder than him and before him.

 

[TTHopeful]

I wonder if Lee Sang Su stands a chance.....

 

[yoass]

LSS wins over ZJK and Samsonov were very, very strong. The margins are small; if he maintains that focus and quality he definitely stands a chance.