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WTT Contender Skopje 2025 Jun 9-15

zeio

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MS F
Wen Ruibo 2-4 Duda (9, -6, 5, -11, -6, -0)

I wonder if Alexis could win here?
 

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zeio said:
MS F
Wen Ruibo 2-4 Duda (9, -6, 5, -11, -6, -0)

I wonder if Alexis could win here?
Click to expand...
Duda still has to beat Fan, lol. Nothing against Duda's pedigree but the original point was that Uda scraping past Duda with a good comeback didn't mean he had surpassed a Togami who lost to Alexis (An Alexis who convincingly beat Duda in thr Euro Cup final BTW).

And of course, we saw the Duda-Uda rematch here if we go back to the original topic. And Togami vs Uda is only a zeio conversation at this point. But of course, we forget the original point (Uda vs Togami) and new tangents get a life of their own. That is the zeio way.
 

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zeio

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driversbeat said:
What was Yuan Jia Nan's best singles results before this? I believe this might be her first WTT final and championship before this. What I could find:

Star Contender Ljubljana 2024 QF (lost to Hayata)
Singapore Smash 2022 QF (lost to Wang Yidi)
Champions Macao 2022 SF (lost to SYS)

Of course she also won the Europe top 16 2024 but its been an average of R16/32 finishes from her recent ITTF ranking points history. She'll probably get a big boost and be right behind Miu Hirano at 22 after this.

View attachment 36662
Click to expand...
First international title and WTT title for her, after that continental title.
 

zeio

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NextLevel said:
Duda still has to beat Fan, lol. Nothing against Duda's pedigree but the original point was that Uda scraping past Duda with a good comeback didn't mean he had surpassed a Togami who lost to Alexis (An Alexis who convincingly beat Duda in thr Euro Cup final BTW).

And of course, we saw the Duda-Uda rematch here if we go back to the original topic. And Togami vs Uda is only a zeio conversation at this point. But of course, we forget the original point (Uda vs Togami) and new tangents get a life of their own. That is the zeio way.
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Well, Togami admitted Uda performed better on the world stage. As usual, feel free to convince him.
 

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zeio said:
Well, Togami admitted Uda performed better on the world stage. As usual, feel free to convince him.
Click to expand...
Sure. Even Matsushima performs better than Togami by that standard. When Uda lost to Yousef, crickets. The point was that Togami was a work in progress and losing a tight match to Lebrun was an incomplete assessment of his form. You can find all the quotes you need to argue against such a reasonable assessment. At a certain point, such stuff will get ignored by reasonable people, but i suffer from something is wrong on the internet syndrome and still entertain the silliness.
 
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Ahhh Wen Ruibo was so close but Duda just proves too strong for him. Congrats to Duda. But keep an eye out for Wen Ruibo in the future, he’s definitely a future star along with HYZ and CYY
 
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NextLevel said:
Sure. Even Matsushima performs better than Togami by that standard. When Uda lost to Yousef, crickets. The point was that Togami was a work in progress and losing a tight match to Lebrun was an incomplete assessment of his form. You can find all the quotes you need to argue against such a reasonable assessment. At a certain point, such stuff will get ignored by reasonable people, but i suffer from something is wrong on the internet syndrome and still entertain the silliness.
Click to expand...
Matsushima performs better than Togami only in your imagination. Their overall stats in 2024 already proved that. I'm tired of repeating myself.

If you look at the players Uda and Togami have lost to so far this year, the difference between them really comes down to those three 2-3 losses for Uda (WCT, Suravajjula and Abdelaziz). WCT is a former top 10 and MS bronze medalist in World Cup 2016 (3rd-4th 4-1 Karlsson), Asian Games 2022 (QF 4-3 LYJ), ATTC 2015 (QF 4-0 JWJ), Asian Cup 2016 (QF 4-2 Mizutani) and has defeated practically all former (even Mizutani) and current top JNT members. Care to remind me what you wrote about Abdelaziz here and here during WTTC 2025? We also have LGY's comment on the difficulty he faced.

Uda
7/18=38.9% compared to 9/18=50% or 10/18=55.6% if he won those matches
Lost to 7 players and beat 2 players (Duda and AJH) ranked way above him (AJH was WR22 and Uda WR30 at Asian Cup 2025, and Uda 3W1L AJH after that, with the 1 loss in junior years)
Year Event Player A Player B Player X Player Y Sub-event Stage Round Result Games Winner Winner
2025WTT Contender, Skopje (MKD)UDA Yukiya (JPN)DUDA Benedikt (GER)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal1 - 313:11 2:11 7:11 5:11DUDA Benedikt
2025WTT Contender, Skopje (MKD)UDA Yukiya (JPN)LIAO Cheng-Ting (TPE)MSMain DrawR163 - 011:7 11:7 11:7UDA Yukiya
2025WTT Contender, Skopje (MKD)UDA Yukiya (JPN)LEVENKO Andreas (AUT)MSMain DrawR323 - 112:10 11:8 9:11 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025WTT Contender, Tunis (TUN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)ABDELAZIZ Youssef (EGY)MSMain DrawR322 - 311:8 12:14 11:4 8:11 10:12ABDELAZIZ Youssef
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)CALDERANO Hugo (BRA)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSQualification3 - 111:6 11:7 11:6 11:13CALDERANO Hugo
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)UDA Yukiya (JPN)WANG Eugene (CAN)MSQualification2 - 211:4 4:11 7:11 11:9
2025WTT Champions, Incheon (KOR)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MOREGARD Truls (SWE)MSMain DrawR320 - 37:11 3:11 10:12MOREGARD Truls
2025WTT Star Contender, Chennai (IND)UDA Yukiya (JPN)SURAVAJJULA Snehit (IND)MSMain DrawR322 - 311:8 13:11 9:11 7:11 10:12SURAVAJJULA Snehit
2025WTT Champions, Chongqing (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)LEBRUN Felix (FRA)MSMain DrawR160 - 34:11 5:11 9:11LEBRUN Felix
2025WTT Champions, Chongqing (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)DUDA Benedikt (GER)MSMain DrawR323 - 24:11 8:11 12:10 11:5 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)LIN Shidong (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal4 - 111:7 11:6 11:4 10:12 11:7LIN Shidong
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)AN Jaehyun (KOR)MSMain DrawR163 - 28:11 12:10 11:7 9:11 13:11UDA Yukiya
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)ALAMIYAN Noshad (IRI)MSQualification3 - 012:10 11:5 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)WANG Chuqin (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSQualification3 - 011:8 11:8 11:7WANG Chuqin
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)KORANI Ahmed (QAT)MSQualification3 - 011:7 11:5 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025Singapore Smash, Singapore (SGP)WANG Chuqin (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawR643 - 011:9 11:5 11:9WANG Chuqin
2025WTT Star Contender, Doha (QAT)WONG Chun Ting (HKG)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawR163 - 29:11 11:5 7:11 11:9 11:9WONG Chun Ting
2025WTT Star Contender, Doha (QAT)STUMPER Kay (GER)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawR322 - 311:9 9:11 9:11 11:9 3:11UDA Yukiya
Total: 18

Togami
9/17=52.9%
Lost to 7 players and beat 2 players (Harimoto and Jorgic) ranked way above him (CDS was WR21 and Togami WR23 at Singapore Smash 2025, and Togami 4W1L CDS after that, with the 1 loss in junior years)
Year Event Player A Player B Player X Player Y Sub-event Stage Round Result Games Winner Winner
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MOREGARD Truls (SWE)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal2 - 416:14 11:3 7:11 8:11 10:12 9:11MOREGARD Truls
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)JORGIC Darko (SLO)MSMain DrawR164 - 39:11 11:9 9:11 11:4 1:11 12:10 12:10TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)HARIMOTO Tomokazu (JPN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR321 - 47:11 9:11 11:9 5:11 9:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)KUO Guan-Hong (TPE)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR640 - 43:11 8:11 6:11 6:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)MADRID Marcos (MEX)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR1280 - 42:11 2:11 5:11 2:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)LIANG Jingkun (CHN)MSMain DrawR162 - 44:11 7:11 5:11 11:6 12:10 5:11LIANG Jingkun
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)LIN Gaoyuan (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSQualification2 - 214:12 9:11 9:11 11:5
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)IONESCU Ovidiu (ROU)MSQualification4 - 011:6 11:7 11:8 11:6TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025WTT Champions, Incheon (KOR)FRANZISKA Patrick (GER)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR323 - 211:5 11:4 7:11 10:12 11:5FRANZISKA Patrick
2025WTT Champions, Chongqing (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)LEBRUN Alexis (FRA)MSMain DrawR322 - 314:12 8:11 13:11 9:11 8:11LEBRUN Alexis
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)WANG Chuqin (CHN)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal0 - 47:11 6:11 7:11 7:11WANG Chuqin
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)SHINOZUKA Hiroto (JPN)MSMain DrawR163 - 19:11 11:6 11:4 12:10TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)FENG Yi-Hsin (TPE)MSQualification3 - 011:3 11:9 11:6TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)JANG Woojin (KOR)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSQualification3 - 15:11 11:9 11:4 11:6JANG Woojin
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)CHEW Clarence (SGP)MSQualification3 - 011:5 11:8 11:5TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025Singapore Smash, Singapore (SGP)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)QIU Dang (GER)MSMain DrawR321 - 311:13 11:1 7:11 3:11QIU Dang
2025Singapore Smash, Singapore (SGP)CHO Daeseong (KOR)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR642 - 37:11 11:7 4:11 11:9 7:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
Total: 17
 
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zeio said:
Matsushima performs better than Togami only in your imagination. Their overall stats in 2024 already proved that. I'm tired of repeating myself.

If you look at the players Uda and Togami have lost to so far this year, the difference between them really comes down to those three 2-3 losses for Uda (WCT, Suravajjula and Abdelaziz). WCT is a former top 10 and MS bronze medalist in World Cup 2016 (3rd-4th 4-1 Karlsson), Asian Games 2022 (QF 4-3 LYJ), ATTC 2015 (QF 4-0 JWJ), Asian Cup 2016 (QF 4-2 Mizutani) and has defeated practically all former (even Mizutani) and current top JNT members. Care to remind me what you wrote about Abdelaziz here and here during WTTC 2025? We also have LGY's comment on the difficulty he faced.

Uda
7/18=38.9% compared to 9/18=50% or 10/18=55.6% if he won those matches
Lost to 7 players and beat 2 players (Duda and AJH) ranked way above him (AJH was WR22 and Uda WR30 at Asian Cup 2025, and Uda 3W1L AJH after that, with the 1 loss in junior years)
Year Event Player A Player B Player X Player Y Sub-event Stage Round Result Games Winner Winner
2025WTT Contender, Skopje (MKD)UDA Yukiya (JPN)DUDA Benedikt (GER)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal1 - 313:11 2:11 7:11 5:11DUDA Benedikt
2025WTT Contender, Skopje (MKD)UDA Yukiya (JPN)LIAO Cheng-Ting (TPE)MSMain DrawR163 - 011:7 11:7 11:7UDA Yukiya
2025WTT Contender, Skopje (MKD)UDA Yukiya (JPN)LEVENKO Andreas (AUT)MSMain DrawR323 - 112:10 11:8 9:11 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025WTT Contender, Tunis (TUN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)ABDELAZIZ Youssef (EGY)MSMain DrawR322 - 311:8 12:14 11:4 8:11 10:12ABDELAZIZ Youssef
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)CALDERANO Hugo (BRA)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSQualification3 - 111:6 11:7 11:6 11:13CALDERANO Hugo
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)UDA Yukiya (JPN)WANG Eugene (CAN)MSQualification2 - 211:4 4:11 7:11 11:9
2025WTT Champions, Incheon (KOR)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MOREGARD Truls (SWE)MSMain DrawR320 - 37:11 3:11 10:12MOREGARD Truls
2025WTT Star Contender, Chennai (IND)UDA Yukiya (JPN)SURAVAJJULA Snehit (IND)MSMain DrawR322 - 311:8 13:11 9:11 7:11 10:12SURAVAJJULA Snehit
2025WTT Champions, Chongqing (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)LEBRUN Felix (FRA)MSMain DrawR160 - 34:11 5:11 9:11LEBRUN Felix
2025WTT Champions, Chongqing (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)DUDA Benedikt (GER)MSMain DrawR323 - 24:11 8:11 12:10 11:5 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)LIN Shidong (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal4 - 111:7 11:6 11:4 10:12 11:7LIN Shidong
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)AN Jaehyun (KOR)MSMain DrawR163 - 28:11 12:10 11:7 9:11 13:11UDA Yukiya
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)ALAMIYAN Noshad (IRI)MSQualification3 - 012:10 11:5 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)WANG Chuqin (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSQualification3 - 011:8 11:8 11:7WANG Chuqin
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)KORANI Ahmed (QAT)MSQualification3 - 011:7 11:5 11:6UDA Yukiya
2025Singapore Smash, Singapore (SGP)WANG Chuqin (CHN)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawR643 - 011:9 11:5 11:9WANG Chuqin
2025WTT Star Contender, Doha (QAT)WONG Chun Ting (HKG)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawR163 - 29:11 11:5 7:11 11:9 11:9WONG Chun Ting
2025WTT Star Contender, Doha (QAT)STUMPER Kay (GER)UDA Yukiya (JPN)MSMain DrawR322 - 311:9 9:11 9:11 11:9 3:11UDA Yukiya
Total: 18

Togami
9/17=52.9%
Lost to 7 players and beat 2 players (Harimoto and Jorgic) ranked way above him (CDS was WR21 and Togami WR23 at Singapore Smash 2025, and Togami 4W1L CDS after that, with the 1 loss in junior years)
Year Event Player A Player B Player X Player Y Sub-event Stage Round Result Games Winner Winner
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MOREGARD Truls (SWE)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal2 - 416:14 11:3 7:11 8:11 10:12 9:11MOREGARD Truls
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)JORGIC Darko (SLO)MSMain DrawR164 - 39:11 11:9 9:11 11:4 1:11 12:10 12:10TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)HARIMOTO Tomokazu (JPN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR321 - 47:11 9:11 11:9 5:11 9:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)KUO Guan-Hong (TPE)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR640 - 43:11 8:11 6:11 6:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF World Table Tennis Championships Finals, Doha (QAT)MADRID Marcos (MEX)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR1280 - 42:11 2:11 5:11 2:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)LIANG Jingkun (CHN)MSMain DrawR162 - 44:11 7:11 5:11 11:6 12:10 5:11LIANG Jingkun
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)LIN Gaoyuan (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSQualification2 - 214:12 9:11 9:11 11:5
2025ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup, Macao (MAC)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)IONESCU Ovidiu (ROU)MSQualification4 - 011:6 11:7 11:8 11:6TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025WTT Champions, Incheon (KOR)FRANZISKA Patrick (GER)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR323 - 211:5 11:4 7:11 10:12 11:5FRANZISKA Patrick
2025WTT Champions, Chongqing (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)LEBRUN Alexis (FRA)MSMain DrawR322 - 314:12 8:11 13:11 9:11 8:11LEBRUN Alexis
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)WANG Chuqin (CHN)MSMain DrawQuarterFinal0 - 47:11 6:11 7:11 7:11WANG Chuqin
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)SHINOZUKA Hiroto (JPN)MSMain DrawR163 - 19:11 11:6 11:4 12:10TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)FENG Yi-Hsin (TPE)MSQualification3 - 011:3 11:9 11:6TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)JANG Woojin (KOR)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSQualification3 - 15:11 11:9 11:4 11:6JANG Woojin
2025ITTF-ATTU Asian Cup, Shenzhen (CHN)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)CHEW Clarence (SGP)MSQualification3 - 011:5 11:8 11:5TOGAMI Shunsuke
2025Singapore Smash, Singapore (SGP)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)QIU Dang (GER)MSMain DrawR321 - 311:13 11:1 7:11 3:11QIU Dang
2025Singapore Smash, Singapore (SGP)CHO Daeseong (KOR)TOGAMI Shunsuke (JPN)MSMain DrawR642 - 37:11 11:7 4:11 11:9 7:11TOGAMI Shunsuke
Total: 17
Click to expand...
Listen, if you have to write a post that I cannot even quote and write a substantial response to because it is too long to convince me that Uda has surpassed Togami, then maybe it is more reasonable to say that the differences are not significant enough to discuss. Thanks!
 

zeio

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NextLevel said:
Listen, if you have to write a post that I cannot even quote and write a substantial response to because it is too long to convince me that Uda has surpassed Togami, then maybe it is more reasonable to say that the differences are not significant enough to discuss. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Once again, go convince Togami, not me.

In the latest interview, Togami only went to Germany (where it is 不自由/not free compared to Japan in terms of table tennis) and started to truly grow because Mizutani, whom you've questioned repeatedly, convinced the president of Togami's management company that he should play overseas.
 

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zeio said:
Once again, go convince Togami, not me.

In the latest interview, Togami only went to Germany (where it is 不自由/not free compared to Japan in terms of table tennis) because Mizutani, whom you've questioned repeatedly, convinced the president of Togami's management company that he should play overseas.
Click to expand...
You are funny. So being right about something makes you a deity to be never questioned about other things? So Mizutani can tell players how to win WTTC singles medals he has never been good enough to win? And let's remember that Harimoto also went abroad as part of Mizutani's push. But in fact, who was citing that Togami was beating many of the players who you kept citing as the reasons for Uda surpassing Togami Like Duda, Dima and Jorgic in German League (I did) but then got the response that league matches do not have stakes?

Keep moving goalposts, it is your thing.
 

zeio

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NextLevel said:
You are funny. So being right about something makes you a deity to be never questioned about other things? So Mizutani can tell players how to win WTTC singles medals he has never been good enough to win? And let's remember that Harimoto also went abroad as part of Mizutani's push. But in fact, who was citing that Togami was beating many of the players who you kept citing as the reasons for Uda surpassing Togami Like Duda, Dima and Jorgic in German League (I did) but then got the response that league matches do not have stakes?

Keep moving goalposts, it is your thing.
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At this point, you can't even come up with a valid counterargument. I have better things to waste my life on.
 

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zeio said:
At this point, you can't even come up with a valid counterargument. I have better things to waste my life on.
Click to expand...
Oh stuff if. You still haven't proved Uda surpassed Togami even with all your BS. So move the goalposts all you want. Keep wasting time.
 
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