Your ultimate setup...

[beano]

Hi all

Just theoretically as I do understand that different blades and rubbers suit different playing styles etc etc but......

The question is if money was no object and you had to create a bat for an all round attacking game what would your ultimate setup be??

There are just so many blades and rubbers out there these days I'm trying to get as many opinions as possible to see if a certain combination comes out on top, weather its a tried and tested combo you have used or just what you feel the best setup would be please let me know.

Thanks

 

[mr. tom]

Nittaku Resoud: http://www.tabletennis11.com/eur_eng/nittaku-resoud 3500 EUR
forehand: Fan Zhendong personal Hurricane 3: http://www.prott.cc/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=fzd 210 USD
backhand: professional version Tenergy 05: http://www.prott.cc/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=ProT05 105 USD

total: 3784 EUR

 

[beano]

Holy moly look at that blade and the case it comes in

 

[dirtyD]

wow!!! are they serious about that price? Thats an ej"s dream setup.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I am using exactly the setup I want. For me, what I am using is perfect. I have had enough setups to know that this one does everything well for me.

But, really equipment is not that important. A setup that is good for your game is nice to have. But technique is more important than equipment.

Hopefully rokfish will post some of his equipment. He has more blades than the Butterfly factory.


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[Lolman]

I would say Hurricane 3 National blue sponge on the forehand,Tenergy 05fx on the backhand and Hurricane Long 5 as the blade.

 

[Shuki]

Don't listen to these comments. Except carl's he's right. An all around attacking game can vary in quite a few ways, whether your attacks are loops, loops based on speed, loops based on spin, flat hitting etc... Stiffer, hard blades are faster close to the table and if you can control that, it's great to play close to the table off the bounce counter topspins. there's just so much variation in what can help an attacking style out that it's virtually impossible to pinpoint.

Your best bet if you want to get better, get a 5 ply all wood blade. no carbon. and a soft rubber that lets you feel the vibration that the blade is giving you. Tenergy 05 may be expensive and a work of art, but have you ever been looped at by a spin monster and used Tenergy 05 to try and flat hit that loop back? if you have, you'll realize that t05 SUCKS if you're not spinning the ball.

 

[mr. tom]

Don't listen to these comments. Except carl's he's right...

ok, how nice, thank you for your input!

 

[laistrogian]

Don't listen to these comments. Except carl's he's right. An all around attacking game can vary in quite a few ways, whether your attacks are loops, loops based on speed, loops based on spin, flat hitting etc... Stiffer, hard blades are faster close to the table and if you can control that, it's great to play close to the table off the bounce counter topspins. there's just so much variation in what can help an attacking style out that it's virtually impossible to pinpoint.

Your best bet if you want to get better, get a 5 ply all wood blade. no carbon. and a soft rubber that lets you feel the vibration that the blade is giving you. Tenergy 05 may be expensive and a work of art, but have you ever been looped at by a spin monster and used Tenergy 05 to try and flat hit that loop back? if you have, you'll realize that t05 SUCKS if you're not spinning the ball.

People who flat hit a loop most of the time shouldn't play tenergy 05 in the first place. It's like a cocaine for loopers tho

 

[beano]

The point of this thread was to get individuals views on what "they" feel is the best setup for an all round attacking game.

Of course the setup person A chooses may not be the ultimate setup for person B but the whole point of my question was to build up as many different combinations that work for people, or like Mr Tom just an incredible setup that I'd never even seen.

This isn't even for me to change my setup as I have already had that conversation it was to try and help me get a bit more knowledge as to what rubbers work with what blades and why everyone seems to love Tenergy 05 so much.

 

[beano]

Don't listen to these comments. Except carl's he's right. An all around attacking game can vary in quite a few ways, whether your attacks are loops, loops based on speed, loops based on spin, flat hitting etc... Stiffer, hard blades are faster close to the table and if you can control that, it's great to play close to the table off the bounce counter topspins. there's just so much variation in what can help an attacking style out that it's virtually impossible to pinpoint.

Your best bet if you want to get better, get a 5 ply all wood blade. no carbon. and a soft rubber that lets you feel the vibration that the blade is giving you. Tenergy 05 may be expensive and a work of art, but have you ever been looped at by a spin monster and used Tenergy 05 to try and flat hit that loop back? if you have, you'll realize that t05 SUCKS if you're not spinning the ball.

Well Carl did help me a lot in another post so I do appreciate his knowledge but I also appreciate everyone else's input including yours.

Why would you suggest a 5 ply blade over a 7 ply??

Thanks.

 

[Musaab]

Don't listen to these comments. Except carl's he's right. An all around attacking game can vary in quite a few ways, whether your attacks are loops, loops based on speed, loops based on spin, flat hitting etc... Stiffer, hard blades are faster close to the table and if you can control that, it's great to play close to the table off the bounce counter topspins. there's just so much variation in what can help an attacking style out that it's virtually impossible to pinpoint.

Your best bet if you want to get better, get a 5 ply all wood blade. no carbon. and a soft rubber that lets you feel the vibration that the blade is giving you. Tenergy 05 may be expensive and a work of art, but have you ever been looped at by a spin monster and used Tenergy 05 to try and flat hit that loop back? if you have, you'll realize that t05 SUCKS if you're not spinning the ball.

Shuki is absolutely right, based on a personal experience I started with a cheap premade setup that I knew right away I had to upgrade, but then I went to buy a ZJK setup that includes tenergies and hurricanes etc .. I downgraded that to an all wood with no specialized rubbers and my game improved like never did before.

 

[Shuki]

Can anyone think of rubber and blade combonation that doesn't work well? They'll all work well in some aspect.

Could you clarify on what you mean by all round offense? Does that mean in 9 points you'll loop 3 balls, hit 3 and aggressively push 3?

If you really want something that's equal in every aspect of offense I'd go for markv rubbers on an appelgreen all play.

Tenergy is too sensitive to spin for a hitter so it can't be all-round offensive.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

Okay. So, understanding blades. If that is your interest then understanding different kinds of wood and how they play is worth it. Like Koto, Limba, Hinoki, Ayous, Kiri, etc and how different kinds of materials like Carbon, Arylate and Zylon affect things.

Often used as a top ply Limba is usually pretty soft and not too lively so it helps increase dwell time (the amount of time the ball can stay on the blade face so you can generate more spin). Whereas a wood like Koto is harder and therefor faster with less dwell time. Koto is also usually used as a top ply.

It is also worth understanding differences between all wood and composite blades.

Usually all wood blades have more vibrations which also translates to them allowing you to feel the ball more during contact.

Now, it is also worth understanding that players of different levels may be best off with different kinds of blades.

Someone who is developing technique and learning to generate more spin would usually be best off with a 5 ply wood blade that has a semi-soft top ply like Limba, good dwell time, good control, helps you generate more spin, touch and feeling.

A blade like this is usually not too fast but it helps you get more arc on your balls with the higher spin/speed ratio which also helps you place the ball better and get wider angles on your shots.

A generation ago this is what most top pros used also. But now most top pros use something different. That being said, what most top pros use is not necessarily what an amateur should use.

So, when a player has gotten the fundamentals down really solidly, often they start thinking about a faster blade.

There are many ways to go with this. But it is worth knowing that faster isn't always better.

The fastest kind of blades are usually ones with something like Tamca 5000 carbon or blades with carbon and a Hinoki top ply. Blades like a Schlager Carbon or a Primorac Carbon are pretty darn fast. Because the blade is so much faster, even if you generated the same amount of spin the speed/spin ratio would be higher and the spin/speed ratio would be lower. Which means you will get less arc on the ball. Add to this that it is a lot harder to generate spin with these rackets and you get a faster ball but a flatter trajectory which means you may blast the ball past your opponent but it is considerably harder to get wider angles. Not too many pros use blades like this for this reason. But there are a few.

There are two versions of compromise half way between those super fast blades and the Off- 5 ply wood blades.

Blades that use 7 ply wood construction are one version. With 7 plies the blade is thicker and stiffer which makes it faster. But you still get the feeling and ability to spin the ball of a an all wood blade. The drawback is that these blades, like a Stiga Clipper, are on the heavy side and not everyone is willing to wield a battle axe.

Another way of adding some speed without compromising the spin too much are blades with things like Arylate weaved with Carbon (ALC Blades), like the TB ALC, ZJK ALC and the Viscaria. A lot of pros are using blades like these in today's game.

These blades still have the lightness of a 5 ply all wood blade. They can even make them lighter because of the weight of the carbon ply. And, although the carbon blocks out some of the vibrations and as a result, some of the feeling, the soft plastic (Arylate) adds dwell time so you can still add a lot of spin without sacrificing speed.

These are better for more advanced players whereas until you can really generate high levels of spin and your technique is very solid most players are better off with 5 ply all wood blades if the issue is improving and developing technique.

In 2005 8 of the top 10 used all wood blades. In 2016 9 of 10 use ALC. But all of them would be able to use an all wood blade. And most amateurs slow their development by using a carbon blade. So.....it is worth using what is useful for your level of play.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

Btw: Zylon is also a soft plastic. Has similar characteristics to Arylate but it is faster and creates a little less dwell time.

Blades like TB ZLC or ZJK ZLC almost as fast as blades like the Schlager Carbon and the Primorac Carbon but with a harder top ply, softer under the top ply and a little extra dwell time so, more spin.

Blades like the JM ZLC are similar in speed and spin to blades like the Viscaria because, even though the ZLC is faster the Limba top ply is softer. The Innerforce ZLC is also in this category because of the Limba top ply, the Limba ply under that and the the ZLC being deeper in the blade.

All these blades play a little differently. In fact any Viscaria will play a little differently than any other Viscaria.

But if you choose a blade that is right for you and choose rubbers that will be good for your level and play style, you will have the ultimate blade for you just like my 5 ply all wood OSP Virtuoso Plus is perfect for me.


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[darnner123]

clipper or ebenholz ntc v
with tenergy 05 both sides

 

[Shuki]

I wish there was an archive of great posts. Carl, NL,MattH, and a few other's have had some FANTASTIC ONES which seem to just get ignored by most.

What I love about Carl's posts, is he'll keep saying them, wording them differently until finally it clicks in everyones head and they understand. And then you get those stubborn people like me reading the posts who will try to find a counter argument as I feel I'm right about some things. And while I may be right to an extent, that doesn't mean I'm right.

Thanks for the in depth review of wood types and carbon which you've done so often in the past. And thank you for the patience you have to keep explaining these types of things in so many threads. There are people in this forum who are a disease and try and hurt it, but you're more of a white blood cell.

 

[LordPippington]

Okay. So, understanding blades. If that is your interest then understanding different kinds of wood and how they play is worth it. Like Koto, Limba, Hinoki, Ayous, Kiri, etc and how different kinds of materials like Carbon, Arylate and Zylon affect things.

Often used as a top ply Limba is usually pretty soft and not too lively so it helps increase dwell time (the amount of time the ball can stay on the blade face so you can generate more spin). Whereas a wood like Koto is harder and therefor faster with less dwell time. Koto is also usually used as a top ply.

It is also worth understanding differences between all wood and composite blades.

Usually all wood blades have more vibrations which also translates to them allowing you to feel the ball more during contact.

Now, it is also worth understanding that players of different levels may be best off with different kinds of blades.

Someone who is developing technique and learning to generate more spin would usually be best off with a 5 ply wood blade that has a semi-soft top ply like Limba, good dwell time, good control, helps you generate more spin, touch and feeling.

A blade like this is usually not too fast but it helps you get more arc on your balls with the higher spin/speed ratio which also helps you place the ball better and get wider angles on your shots.

A generation ago this is what most top pros used also. But now most top pros use something different. That being said, what most top pros use is not necessarily what an amateur should use.

So, when a player has gotten the fundamentals down really solidly, often they start thinking about a faster blade.

There are many ways to go with this. But it is worth knowing that faster isn't always better.

The fastest kind of blades are usually ones with something like Tamca 5000 carbon or blades with carbon and a Hinoki top ply. Blades like a Schlager Carbon or a Primorac Carbon are pretty darn fast. Because the blade is so much faster, even if you generated the same amount of spin the speed/spin ratio would be higher and the spin/speed ratio would be lower. Which means you will get less arc on the ball. Add to this that it is a lot harder to generate spin with these rackets and you get a faster ball but a flatter trajectory which means you may blast the ball past your opponent but it is considerably harder to get wider angles. Not too many pros use blades like this for this reason. But there are a few.

There are two versions of compromise half way between those super fast blades and the Off- 5 ply wood blades.

Blades that use 7 ply wood construction are one version. With 7 plies the blade is thicker and stiffer which makes it faster. But you still get the feeling and ability to spin the ball of a an all wood blade. The drawback is that these blades, like a Stiga Clipper, are on the heavy side and not everyone is willing to wield a battle axe.

Another way of adding some speed without compromising the spin too much are blades with things like Arylate weaved with Carbon (ALC Blades), like the TB ALC, ZJK ALC and the Viscaria. A lot of pros are using blades like these in today's game.

These blades still have the lightness of a 5 ply all wood blade. They can even make them lighter because of the weight of the carbon ply. And, although the carbon blocks out some of the vibrations and as a result, some of the feeling, the soft plastic (Arylate) adds dwell time so you can still add a lot of spin without sacrificing speed.

These are better for more advanced players whereas until you can really generate high levels of spin and your technique is very solid most players are better off with 5 ply all wood blades if the issue is improving and developing technique.

In 2005 8 of the top 10 used all wood blades. In 2016 9 of 10 use ALC. But all of them would be able to use an all wood blade. And most amateurs slow their development by using a carbon blade. So.....it is worth using what is useful for your level of play.


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Carl, what is with this BORING SENSIBLE advice!?

A plain 5 ply all wood?! That's like going into baskin robbins and ordering a plain vanilla!

But really, I'd have to agree with what Carl says 100%. The fast and fancy blades are fun to use. All that power... I was playing with the garaydia t5000 for awhile and some times still do. The 1/10 power shot that actually lands, woo! It's a pretty addicting feeling, even if it does slow progress and rarely happen. My ratio of wins and consistency always improves every time I drop down to a "slow" blade.

Do you have any recommendations for a nice all-round blade for developing players? I probably already own it (Grubba, Innershield ZLF, Kim Kyung Ah, Liu Shiwen, Innerforce Layer Series, Garaydia Series, Timo boll w7, hadraw SK/SR, samsonov black edition, chen defender, victas matsush ita, xiom vega pro, ebenholz 7, waldner champion 89, timo boll t5000, xiom axelo, xiom aigis, balsa carbo x5, mazunov, joo se hyuk, rossi emotion, etc...)

 

[laistrogian]

Blades like the JM ZLC are similar in speed and spin to blades like the Viscaria because, even though the ZLC is faster the Limba top ply is softer. The Innerforce ZLC is also in this category because of the Limba top ply, the Limba ply under that and the the ZLC being deeper in the blade.

My IF zlc actually feels somewhat slower than my TBS, althouh it could be atributed to the difference in the weight (85gr vs 92gr)

As someone that has carbon addiction but is still below 2000, imo innerforce will hit the spot for someone like me. the blade has a lot of feedback and easier short game, where ALC blade is particularly bad

 

[darnner123]

Do you have any recommendations for a nice all-round blade for developing players? I probably already own it (Grubba, Innershield ZLF, Kim Kyung Ah, Liu Shiwen, Innerforce Layer Series, Garaydia Series, Timo boll w7, hadraw SK/SR, samsonov black edition, chen defender, victas matsush ita, xiom vega pro, ebenholz 7, waldner champion 89, timo boll t5000, xiom axelo, xiom aigis, balsa carbo x5, mazunov, joo se hyuk, rossi emotion, etc...)

what the ...