Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

I guess I should just go for it then. When I'm warmed up, I can kill balls like that, because they're predictable and have a lot of spin to use. Otherwise, they're a huge weakness: so I need to train my lowest level reaction to the shot. I played the penholder when I was cold, and he didn't want to warm up. It's part of his game, because I utterly destroy him if I've warmed up.
It's just an excuse, though, so I'm gonna really need to pay attention to how I deal with balls like that so I can do it in the worst conditions.


I've updated my stance on people who cheat on serves: if they're gonna throw the ball into the bat, I'm gonna whip out my nasty under the armpit serves that shoot out with hooking side-top over the forehand sideline, or come short and spinny right in the elbow. Those bring a lot of pop ups and people never really know what to expect.

They're completely hidden to the point where it's blatant, but it's just fair.

 

[ttmonster]

I understand your frustration , but in the longer run its not good for you. What if you come up against one such player in the tournament and even after asking for you umpire the umpire does not call his serve. I would say, don't pay too much attention to winning or losing , but focus on the serve return. Try to read the trajectory of the ball better so you can tell the spin from the trajectory and adjust , it will only help you.

I guess I should just go for it then. When I'm warmed up, I can kill balls like that, because they're predictable and have a lot of spin to use. Otherwise, they're a huge weakness: so I need to train my lowest level reaction to the shot. I played the penholder when I was cold, and he didn't want to warm up. It's part of his game, because I utterly destroy him if I've warmed up.
It's just an excuse, though, so I'm gonna really need to pay attention to how I deal with balls like that so I can do it in the worst conditions.


I've updated my stance on people who cheat on serves: if they're gonna throw the ball into the bat, I'm gonna whip out my nasty under the armpit serves that shoot out with hooking side-top over the forehand sideline, or come short and spinny right in the elbow. Those bring a lot of pop ups and people never really know what to expect.

They're completely hidden to the point where it's blatant, but it's just fair.

 

[Archosaurus]

I understand your frustration , but in the longer run its not good for you. What if you come up against one such player in the tournament and even after asking for you umpire the umpire does not call his serve. I would say, don't pay too much attention to winning or losing , but focus on the serve return. Try to read the trajectory of the ball better so you can tell the spin from the trajectory and adjust , it will only help you.

I would still hide my serve to the point where it'd not get called, to even it out. Especially in a competition situation.

Winning is a given. If someone is cheating like this, they're bound to have some gaps in their game that they're trying to fill, and it's my job to send their serves back as nasty as I can to exploit those gaps.
If I manage to return such serves with high quality and they still just kill it, maybe they're better than me. I haven't played in a tournament, but I've never seen that to be the case. So I just need to get the first loop in: they're practically giving it to me. There is a reason why people serve short, after all.

I don't feel too comfortable returning these serves. Next time, I will work on taking a more rapid step towards the ball to get a better hitting zone. I might even try cross-stepping into it, although if I go too far it will open my backhand up.

I can attack serves like this very hard and very consistently with my backhand, because I can see the trajectory better and I'm right eye dominant so the perspective makes more sense to me. From the forehand, it's more difficult, because it's hard to see the ball. The quality of the ball itself isn't anything I can't handle. So I gotta work on my positioning and seeing.

 

[Shuki]

A big problem is that you're even thinking his serves are illegal. He's got you not thinking about your game anymore and worry about him cheating on the serve instead of playing properly. Anything to get you away from thinking about what you need to do next.

Think about when someone Cho's on their points. It may not bother you, but you still might notice it. And that thinking about how they cho'd and how they sound rediculous, and how you're not going to let it bother you and how your just going to keep playing your game the same way. well all those thoughts normally wouldn't have been there, and they achieved their goal of distracting you from thinking real table tennis thoughts.

I wear a nike headband, and I wear it so the logo is upside down, intitially I did it by accident. A club member noticed it and told me that it was upside down, I laughed and said whoops. However I didn't fix it I just kept playing, I noticed he kept looking up at my forehead so I decided to always wear it upside down from now on. About a week ago, I was playing a player named Tien. He was wearing an addidas headband upside down. In my head I said "copier! that's my thing!" He's a friend and I asked him why he was wearing it upside down. He responded telling me that mine kept on distracting him. Anything to take their mind off the playing man.

 

[Liten]

First night at the new club - wow.
Such nice dudes, such a different environment. Faster, lower tables, better lighting and above all, great "sticky" floor! [emoji322]

Got my @ss handed to me by 4 out of 5 guys - and im loving every second of it!! What serves! I whent into total rec mode! Need to soak up everybodys groove in there. Real impressed by these guys game.. I know nothing bout them, but they were all real nice!

I TOTALY get now that spin is everything... [emoji8]

 

[NextLevel]

A big problem is that you're even thinking his serves are illegal. He's got you not thinking about your game anymore and worry about him cheating on the serve instead of playing properly. Anything to get you away from thinking about what you need to do next.

Think about when someone Cho's on their points. It may not bother you, but you still might notice it. And that thinking about how they cho'd and how they sound rediculous, and how you're not going to let it bother you and how your just going to keep playing your game the same way. well all those thoughts normally wouldn't have been there, and they achieved their goal of distracting you from thinking real table tennis thoughts.

I wear a nike headband, and I wear it so the logo is upside down, intitially I did it by accident. A club member noticed it and told me that it was upside down, I laughed and said whoops. However I didn't fix it I just kept playing, I noticed he kept looking up at my forehead so I decided to always wear it upside down from now on. About a week ago, I was playing a player named Tien. He was wearing an addidas headband upside down. In my head I said "copier! that's my thing!" He's a friend and I asked him why he was wearing it upside down. He responded telling me that mine kept on distracting him. Anything to take their mind off the playing man.

This is a classic post. For real.

 

[NextLevel]

Table tennis (and TTEdge) helped me understand what positive thinking is really about. That's why I liked Shuki's post.

Positive thinking is not about making good things happen per se. Positive thinking is about getting the body ready to perform at its best.

Let's take an example of receiving serves from a good serve. You have two choices - you can be afraid of the ball before he even serves or you can say that you are going to kill his next serve. Now it is unlikely that you will kill his next serve. But if you think you will kill his next serve, you are at least in the mindset of being ready to return his serve and not scared of it.

That's why positive thinking can help you. Not because it means you will win but because it doesn't put you in a mode that makes you play on the back foot all the time.

 

[Archosaurus]

I've noticed that when I want to kill a serve, at this level, I mostly can. Even serves like the one's I'm having problems with: sometimes it just sticks and things work perfectly. The first time I played him, it went 11-2, and I was just getting points off his serve. After I noticed how deadly his serve is, I've started having problems.

Maybe it's all in my head, all in my head...

 

[Shuki]

I've noticed that when I want to kill a serve, at this level, I mostly can. Even serves like the one's I'm having problems with: sometimes it just sticks and things work perfectly. The first time I played him, it went 11-2, and I was just getting points off his serve. After I noticed how deadly his serve is, I've started having problems.

Maybe it's all in my head, all in my head...

Yup. Go through the ball quicker and you don't deal with as much of the spin. Once confidence is lost you'll play worse not only because you don't believe in yourself but also because you'll try to be safer and hit slower only to have the ball react more off your Raquet. Now what was really safer?


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[Boogar]

Good Posts above! I like the thingy with the headband, I sometimes wear mine upside down and people always complain

Okay today i played mainly matches against an old LP with inverted on forehand and LP on backhand. He can't move around very much as he is very old. However his serves are spiny as ****! I love doing serve and receive drills with him. As he used to be a high lvl player. I d say he used to be around a 2200 -2300 player.

Then i played matches up to two games alternating between two 3. league players. They are probably around 1700-1900.
I won and lost once against each of them.

Ah i almost forgot the fun part! I played with my old h3 neo sheet... it was awesome i could finally trust my FH again!
I think i will stick with Hurricane rubbers for ever! The next weapon is laying on my desk and waiting for the booster to kick in! The ESN side trip was nice and all but mostly confusing.

 

[Archosaurus]

Yup. Go through the ball quicker and you don't deal with as much of the spin. Once confidence is lost you'll play worse not only because you don't believe in yourself but also because you'll try to be safer and hit slower only to have the ball react more off your Raquet. Now what was really safer?

Yep, exactly. I caught myself not even accelerating into the ball at all a time or two, trying to just get my bat on it. That's real bad.

I know his rallying skills are bad, so I tried to just get the return on the table so I can get a ball to attack. That resulted in weak play, and I lost twice quite convincingly. Why not just get a point directly on the 2nd or 4th ball if he blocks it?

I let him play his A-game against my B-game. I know I'm able to attack his serve so hard that he will be forced to change to his B-game, it's just mental and part training/habit.

The first game we played, I could deal with anything he gave me and it was disappointing. His game has not changed in the slightest, so it's all in my head. I'm gonna have to do some heavy visualization and drilling so that I can be fully comfortable against that serve. It shouldn't be a weakness for me: all you need to do is serve it and you shut me down.

 

[Boogar]

Yup. Go through the ball quicker and you don't deal with as much of the spin. Once confidence is lost you'll play worse not only because you don't believe in yourself but also because you'll try to be safer and hit slower only to have the ball react more off your Raquet. Now what was really safer?


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This hits the nail on the head.

Just today I noticed this. I was playing with those 1700-1900 players and could only win if i didn't go for weak shots. I had to give it my all with every ball. It so reassuring especially if it works!

My motivation and faith in myself is all back after being in a hole after the failed tournament. Here we go again!

 

[Boogar]

Yep, exactly. I caught myself not even accelerating into the ball at all a time or two, trying to just get my bat on it. That's real bad.

I know his rallying skills are bad, so I tried to just get the return on the table so I can get a ball to attack. That resulted in weak play, and I lost twice quite convincingly. Why not just get a point directly on the 2nd or 4th ball if he blocks it?

I let him play his A-game against my B-game. I know I'm able to attack his serve so hard that he will be forced to change to his B-game, it's just mental and part training/habit.

The first game we played, I could deal with anything he gave me and it was disappointing. His game has not changed in the slightest, so it's all in my head. I'm gonna have to do some heavy visualization and drilling so that I can be fully comfortable against that serve. It shouldn't be a weakness for me: all you need to do is serve it and you shut me down.

Are you finally able to play in a club? We want videos!

 

[Shuki]

Table tennis is a rough balance. Here's just a few examples of what I mean. And the list really does go on and on.

Confident, but not to confident.
---Too confident and you'll be swinging too hard, possibly tensing muscles you shouldn't be.

Energized, but not too energized.
---Too energized and you might move too early and too the wrong place. Your timing might be way too early.

Relaxed, but not too relaxed.
---Too relaxed and you start to play lazy, not going through the ball as quickly.

 

[Gene Tuttle]

Visited my son in Colorado Springs for a week and had a chance to play at their club in a couple of small round robins. Nice guys and I got to keep in practice against new folks who were my level and higher. Won more matches than I lost but I have to work on extending the rallies rather than trying to over hit shots trying for a kill when the angle or height just is not there. My serves are too high and long as well. I contact the ball too high so they bounce too high. I will be working on service this week in the garage as I will be in D.C next week Sept. 24-25 for the WDCTT Open.

 

[Shuki]

Today I played a very odd player. Long pip backhand inverted forehand. Primarily a chopper from both wings. But he also has a loop and counter loop with his forehand that are pretty strong.

I started off being his first opponent, he's a new guy at our club. I lost 5th game. Great experience. He was a blast to play.

Then he plays one of our lesser quality players that's less then 1200. He got creamed 3-0. I think to myself well now I'm embarrassed I must be playing badly today or something. He proceeds to lose to someone 1400 3-0.

Then I have my training partner play him and he beats my training partner in the 5th.

This confused the crap out of me. How can he beat both of us if we're both 1756 and the players he's losing to are players we can't lose to when we do nothing.

So I have him play one of our better players who bounces over and under 2000. Our 2000 player loses 3-0 and I'm dumbfounded. He then plays an old guy who's around 1400. 1400 old guy beats him 3-1.

To end the night I ask our best player to go play him. Our best player is between 2200-2300. The super player saw him lose to the bad player before him and said he didn't want to play him because it would be a waste of time. So I tell super player not to be a jerk and play him. Give him a chance to learn from a high level player.

Super player loses 3-0 to chopper. I've never seen such nonsense


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[UpSideDownCarl]

Today I played a very odd player. Long pip backhand inverted forehand. Primarily a chopper from both wings. But he also has a loop and counter loop with his forehand that are pretty strong.

I started off being his first opponent, he's a new guy at our club. I lost 5th game. Great experience. He was a blast to play.

Then he plays one of our lesser quality players that's less then 1200. He got creamed 3-0. I think to myself well now I'm embarrassed I must be playing badly today or something. He proceeds to lose to someone 1400 3-0.

Then I have my training partner play him and he beats my training partner in the 5th.

This confused the crap out of me. How can he beat both of us if we're both 1756 and the players he's losing to are players we can't lose to when we do nothing.

So I have him play one of our better players who bounces over and under 2000. Our 2000 player loses 3-0 and I'm dumbfounded. He then plays an old guy who's around 1400. 1400 old guy beats him 3-1.

To end the night I ask our best player to go play him. Our best player is between 2200-2300. The super player saw him lose to the bad player before him and said he didn't want to play him because it would be a waste of time. So I tell super player not to be a jerk and play him. Give him a chance to learn from a high level player.

Super player loses 3-0 to chopper. I've never seen such nonsense


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Could be one of two things:

1) He's better than you guys realize and is not playing as hard as he can. The lower level the players, he is being nice. The higher the level, the harder he tries.

2) Lack of spin from the lower level players is messing him up and he plays better when the opponent knows how to spin the ball.

My actual guess is #1.


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[101010]

did the chopper always play the same game? Chopping game kinda relies on your opponent, too. An opponent who generates high spin will be fed his own spin right back, and weaker players maybe give him less to work with and he's not used to that? Have you had a chat with the chopper, and ask him what the deal is?

 

[Shuki]

Could be one of two things:

1) He's better than you guys realize and is not playing as hard as he can. The lower level the players, he is being nice. The higher the level, the harder he tries.

2) Lack of spin from the lower level players is messing him up and he plays better when the opponent knows how to spin the ball.

My actual guess is #1.


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That's what I was thinking too, the thing is, when he played the lower players his form completely broke and he honestly looked terrible. I also thought about your second response, that he plays better against people who can actually spin the ball. But come on losing to someone thats below 1200 and beating someone over 2200?! That doesn't click in my brain.

did the chopper always play the same game? Chopping game kinda relies on your opponent, too. An opponent who generates high spin will be fed his own spin right back, and weaker players maybe give him less to work with and he's not used to that? Have you had a chat with the chopper, and ask him what the deal is?

He did on his wins. But his losses he just looked like an uncomfortable beginner struggling to understand how the ball worked. He was vocally annoyed with his losses. it was clear he was getting frustrated when he was playing them. That's another reason I think he tried against everyone.

 

[pgpg]

Today I played a very odd player. Long pip backhand inverted forehand. Primarily a chopper from both wings. But he also has a loop and counter loop with his forehand that are pretty strong.

I started off being his first opponent, he's a new guy at our club. I lost 5th game. Great experience. He was a blast to play.

Then he plays one of our lesser quality players that's less then 1200. He got creamed 3-0. I think to myself well now I'm embarrassed I must be playing badly today or something. He proceeds to lose to someone 1400 3-0.

Then I have my training partner play him and he beats my training partner in the 5th.

This confused the crap out of me. How can he beat both of us if we're both 1756 and the players he's losing to are players we can't lose to when we do nothing.

So I have him play one of our better players who bounces over and under 2000. Our 2000 player loses 3-0 and I'm dumbfounded. He then plays an old guy who's around 1400. 1400 old guy beats him 3-1.

To end the night I ask our best player to go play him. Our best player is between 2200-2300. The super player saw him lose to the bad player before him and said he didn't want to play him because it would be a waste of time. So I tell super player not to be a jerk and play him. Give him a chance to learn from a high level player.

Super player loses 3-0 to chopper. I've never seen such nonsense

...

Sounds plausible, if somewhat unusual (wait until Nuke Skywalker chimes in, he can relate to this, I suspect). Are your best players loopers with spin oriented game? That's what modern defender typically wants - and your guy fits the description.

Lower level folks don't give you much spin or power you can redirect at them (soft shots, not much spin), so you end up playing weird game close to the table, which can be dangerous with LP. Don't think he's losing here because he's nice, he just might be outside of his comfort zone, and/or have not played 'pushblockers' in a while.

Also as a possibility - how good are your best players against pips in general?

Edit: LP shots over the table are very different from a standard chop - if he got suckered into push/block rallies and have not played like that in a while - possibly the source of his losses. Also could be a mental thing ("I can't believe I'm losing here!")