Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

[suds79]

Feast your eyes on this!

I've never seen this Kaii Yoshida montage before. Some amazing stuff.

I've always thought when it comes to penhold FH form, I'll put Kaii's stroke right up there with anybody I've seen.

Some thoughts or notes:

1:30 Is that the Xu Xin wristy FH flip? What do people call that? Penhold FH Chiquita? Sure looks like it but how he got so much speed on it is beyond me. Pure awesome.
2:00 Next level type of TPB attack. Doing that consistently is simply hard to do. But he makes it look easy.
4:17 Textbook FH flip. But that power. Wow.
5:51 A nice TPB touch shot or as I like to call it, "soft hands". I'm not so sure this serve has any backspin on it. Maybe a lot of side? Anyways, I've seen players with good touch can chopblock a ball like this regardless if it has top or backspin on it. A nice safe option to have in your game.
6:25 Interstingly enough, I find this type of TPB flip vs short backspin pretty easy. The blade face being naturally more open seems to make this easier for me. Cazuo Matsumoto is really, really good at this shot BTW.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

WOW overall! JUST WOW at 1:30, 2:00 & 6:25! Thank you suds! I've never seen him before, but granted, I don't watch much videos. He is fun to watch!

--------------------------------

Last night I only hit one TPB punch, everything else was RPB!

1. Had a challenge using a RPB block as I didn't "officially" learn it... I kind of got it. Need to work on more. I found I was relaxed and it was good and easy to RPB loop drive relatively little spin shots.

2. Had challenges with my RPB BH stroke vs a strong and fast 1900 SH BH. He has good solid fundamentals. He slowed his shots a little and I recalled my session with songdavid98 and 42andbackpains and listening to the rhythm of the ball. Slowed a bit prior to hitting and RPB BH much better.

3. Old man memory, don't recall if it's the 5th or 6th week with new setup and trying to learn/integrate RPB into my game. Fingers/hand doesn't ache as much, very minor discomfort ... feeling than previous 5 or 6 weeks.

My RPB journey continues.

 

[Musclesturtle]

I'm a penholder. I'm new to this forum so I figured that I'd chime in too. I think I'm one of two penholders at my club in Pittsburgh.
I'm not very skilled yet, but I'm trying to learn RPB. It's very challenging in some ways, but kind of easier than TPB in some aspects.
I find it easier to loop mid distance as well as being able to do a banana flick is nice.
Where it is hard is with short low, fast spinny stuff like the cheese serves that people throw with one giant swoop of the paddle, hitting the ball right out of their hand lol. Like those players who try to mega under-side spin everything. It's just odd to try to handle with any kind of RPB.
I used to be shake hand, and several hundred rating points higher, but I find C-Pen to be too much fun.

 

[silver]

I was flicking through here and saw a few notes on finger and knuckle pain while learning to RPB and thought I'd chime in with my 2c. I was a pure rpb player for a number of years before giving up the sport, then recently decided to restart playing (as a sh).

I started off my rpb with a stiga cpen and throughout the years progressively narrowed and flattened the conic handle of whatever blade I was using. A narrower and flatter handle (esp on the back) allowed me to rotate the blade face in my fingers more easily and put less stress on my fingers, especially my index knuckle, my middle 1st joint and knuckle. Rotating the blade in the fingers like this lets you rpb block more forward and allows for a better forearm/elbow rotation and frisbee action while rpb looping. I believe a fair bit of the knuckle pain was caused by the much thicker bat (blade thickness + bh rubber) and pushing with the thumb to close the blade, while trying to keep a compact finger setup on the back of the blade (unlike a jpen grip). I did not curl any fingers and had the fingertips of all 3 touching.

In the end, I was using cut down SH blades, sanding the lower grip flatter and scalloping the index finger edge out like a jpen - I used an acoustic like this for about 4 years without any major finger pain. I'll find or take a photo of it some time.

 

[Der_Echte]

Holy Friggin' Batman !!!!

The TT forumer Grand Poo-Bah of them all haz joined TTD !!!!!

SILLLLLLLLLVVVVVEEEERRRRRRR !!!

TTers, listen up, Silver has a lot of good stuff to say, not to mention a few Goon Squad stories from yesteryear.

 

[silver]

Apparently I joined 7 years ago

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I'm a penholder. I'm new to this forum so I figured that I'd chime in too. I think I'm one of two penholders at my club in Pittsburgh.

Welcome Musclesturtle to TTD and to this thread!

I'm not very skilled yet, but I'm trying to learn RPB. It's very challenging in some ways, but kind of easier than TPB in some aspects.

Like you I'm trying to learn RPB ... slow process, but I'm having fun along the way.

Where it is hard is with short low, fast spinny stuff like the cheese serves that people throw with one giant swoop of the paddle, hitting the ball right out of their hand lol. Like those players who try to mega under-side spin everything. It's just odd to try to handle with any kind of RPB.

As a club player, i can relate to you on those partners who serve illegally, right out of their hand. I approach it as a challenge to learn how to deal with the spin/serve instead of have them serve legally LOL

I used to be shake hand, and several hundred rating points higher, but I find C-Pen to be too much fun.

Old cliche: sometimes it's not the destination but the journey. Good luck and have fun in your PH journey!!

~osph

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Apparently I joined 7 years ago

Welcome to TTD LOL and to this thread silver!

I was flicking through here and saw a few notes on finger and knuckle pain while learning to RPB and thought I'd chime in with my 2c. I was a pure rpb player for a number of years before giving up the sport, then recently decided to restart playing (as a sh).

I started off my rpb with a stiga cpen and throughout the years progressively narrowed and flattened the conic handle of whatever blade I was using. A narrower and flatter handle (esp on the back) allowed me to rotate the blade face in my fingers more easily and put less stress on my fingers, especially my index knuckle, my middle 1st joint and knuckle. Rotating the blade in the fingers like this lets you rpb block more forward and allows for a better forearm/elbow rotation and frisbee action while rpb looping. I believe a fair bit of the knuckle pain was caused by the much thicker bat (blade thickness + bh rubber) and pushing with the thumb to close the blade, while trying to keep a compact finger setup on the back of the blade (unlike a jpen grip). I did not curl any fingers and had the fingertips of all 3 touching.

In the end, I was using cut down SH blades, sanding the lower grip flatter and scalloping the index finger edge out like a jpen - I used an acoustic like this for about 4 years without any major finger pain. I'll find or take a photo of it some time.

That is very interesting! As I'm 53 and with many years using a keyboard and mouse, I'm fearing partly the pain could be the onset of from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and exacerbated by playing RPB with the weight of the extra rubber and grip.

Thank you for the tips and looking forward to your pictures of your blade.

~osph

 

[silver]

Welcome to TTD LOL and to this thread silver!



That is very interesting! As I'm 53 and with many years using a keyboard and mouse, I'm fearing partly the pain could be the onset of from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and exacerbated by playing RPB with the weight of the extra rubber and grip.

Thank you for the tips and looking forward to your pictures of your blade.

~osph

Are you using the Taksim in your signature? From what I recall it was a fairly narrow handle but a thick blade?

The two major changes I made was to scoop the index finger out and flatten the back of the handle. It's almost a Jpen grip. This relieved a bit of stress on the knuckle.

Untitled by silver, on Flickr
Scooped index wing. Probably a standard mod for most cpenners. I used sandpaper around a tube of berocca or similar and sanded at a fairly shallow angle

Untitled by silver, on Flickr
Dished out lower grip

Untitled by silver, on Flickr
Another shot of the lower grip



Here's a couple of my grip. I hold the racquet a fair way down to attempt to straighten the fingers and not stress the knuckles. The second picture is an attempt to illustrate straightening the index finger down towards the wrist.

Untitled by silver, on Flickr
Note the narrow almost jpen style grip

by silver, on Flickr
This photo might not be 100% representative of my rear fingers. I'm pretty sure I used to have them even more upright.
Additionally if you move your rear fingers closer to your index (upwards in this photo) along the back of the blade this could help a bit. I never really got used to that change though as it felt a bit weak on the racquet.

I have a heap of other blades I shaved while experimenting. Over time I gravitated to thinner blades. After this, one I probably used a mizutani blade for over a year and a nittaku rutis (thicker than these) for a similar length. Pretty sure I had a second acoustic modified like this but not sure where it is.

 

[ShooDoo]

I play both penhold and shakehand so i just switch between the two, its great.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I play both penhold and shakehand so i just switch between the two, its great.

Welcome to TTD and this this thread ShooDoo!

Very cool you play both styles. Is one better than the other or are you equal in both?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Are you using the Taksim in your signature? From what I recall it was a fairly narrow handle but a thick blade?

I am using the Taksim, and I'm hesitant for now to mod the handle. I did sand the index finger wing a little but have not gone all-in and really scoop it much more for comfort.

Untitled by silver, on Flickr
Dished out lower grip

Untitled by silver, on Flickr
Another shot of the lower grip

My original racket from the 1980's I dubbed "Excalibur" had a super-dished lower grip and super scooped index wings.



Used an Avalox for a period ... dished the lower grip a little, didn't do it as much as I did with Exalibur. Handle is too "chunky" for me. Using it as backup to the Taksim.



Trying out the Taksim originally with a used Tenergy ... switched to a used Donic (no pic yet) and still getting used to it ... will buy new Donic soon and cut it so it's not far up.



Coming from a traditional curled fingers grip, I am still experimenting with extended fingers grip variations on the back from non-curled to slightly curled and 3 fingers touching to middle finger touching only.

 

[Musclesturtle]

Thanks for the advice guys!

So I have a question, which has been bothering me lately.

Does RPB really pay off at an amateur level? Because there are still TPB players at very high levels. At what level does the TBP become a liability? How much skill on your opponent's part does it take to take advantage of a TPB player?

I'm only asking because RPB seems to be more trouble than it's worth for amateurs. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be learned by everyone, but I'm just curious to the idea if it may be a noob trap or not.

I for one am still going to pursue it, because I think it's a blast.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Thanks for the advice guys!

So I have a question, which has been bothering me lately.

Does RPB really pay off at an amateur level? Because there are still TPB players at very high levels. At what level does the TBP become a liability? How much skill on your opponent's part does it take to take advantage of a TPB player?

I'm only asking because RPB seems to be more trouble than it's worth for amateurs. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be learned by everyone, but I'm just curious to the idea if it may be a noob trap or not.

I for one am still going to pursue it, because I think it's a blast.

The high level players who still use TPB ... are they older or young? My guess is that if they are older and they don't have the time to train a new technique and get it up to world-class level so they stick with what they have and work to improve that and/or other aspects of their game.

I am an amateur/club player coming back after a 30+ yrs layoff. I'm learning rpb for a few reasons:

1. fun
2. learn new things
3. last but not least - to have a non-passive reply to strong spin to my BH side

I sometimes can't push back heavy downspin and with RPB i have the option to loop. Older and slower now - I'm sometimes slow to pivot to use FH so RPB is a good option.

I have no TPB BH stroke/TPB smash but with RPB i do now - or working towards them.

So it's almost all upside for me... only disadvantage is trying to override my instinct/muscle memory to TPB punch/block and use RPB instead.

I believe the general consensus on this thread is that it is better for a beginner to learn RPB over TPB.

Good luck in your RPB training Musclesturtle!

 

[Ranger-man]

OSPH, I really like how you have sanded down the handle to accommodate the thumb. I never thought about doing that even though I do sand down the shoulders (I never knew they were called index wings, but now I do) of the blade on both sides. It does look like it makes the grip more comfortable. I might have to try that on one of my blades just to see how it feels.

I will also go through my stored blades and dig out this Cpen blade that I am in the process of converting to a kind of hybrid Jpen blade. I prefer Jpen to Cpen so I decided to do it. I have sanded it from the sides so that it is a bit less oval (closer to Jpen shape) and have also added a small piece of wood where the finger curls in front of the handle to give it something to grip, similar to a Jpen blade. So it does not look exactly like a Jpen blade nor does it look exactly like a Cpen blade now.

I will probably take it out over the weekend and restart the project and finish it this time. It got shelved years ago when I stopped playing.

I will post some pics too.

 

[songdavid98]

Thanks for the advice guys!

So I have a question, which has been bothering me lately.

Does RPB really pay off at an amateur level? Because there are still TPB players at very high levels. At what level does the TBP become a liability? How much skill on your opponent's part does it take to take advantage of a TPB player?

I'm only asking because RPB seems to be more trouble than it's worth for amateurs. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be learned by everyone, but I'm just curious to the idea if it may be a noob trap or not.

I for one am still going to pursue it, because I think it's a blast.

Your question depends on what level you consider amateur is. If you don't plan to play in tournaments, do whatever you want.

If you plan to play in tournaments, definitely learn RPB, since TPB has limitations that can be abused by other players.

Backhand is becoming and more important as the sport has evolved, with the changes in rubbers and the ball, with the ubiquity and utility of the backhand flip, with the advantages of staying close to the table to play angles.

EDIT: with the older ball, I think players were able to cover up the disadvantages of the pivot forehand by adding shot quality (more spin/speed). Now that the ball is bigger, so it takes more effort to hit it with the same level of speed and spin (which probably isn't possible anymore).

 

[Lermanator]

how do i unsubscribe to a thread. No offense butthis has been going on
a little too long for me

 

[Ranger-man]

how do i unsubscribe to a thread. No offense butthis has been going on
a little too long for me

FRom "Thread Tools" right at the top of the thread. It gives you the option to unsubscribe. But you will still get notifications in that bell-shaped icon at the top left.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

All,

Forgive the Frankenstein appearance of Excalibur LOL

I played in the 21/5 era and towards the end of the 2-sided/black & red rule. The family dog bit the handle one day and I mended it as best I could. LOL

Ranger-Man,

Thank you for your kind words! I've found that sanding down the thumb side facilitated my TPB punch. I used to have a callous on the bottom of the first joint of my thumb LOL

Yeah the sides of the handles are generally called wings ... the index finger side and the thumb side.

Looking forward to your pix!

~osph

 

[silver]

i really meant the wing or shoulder that you put your index finger on when i said index wing. Shoulder is probably more commonly used, but I recall a blade with smoothed shoulders called a wing?