Butterfly Zhang Jike ZLC vs SZLC vs T5000

[jekyll&hyde]

I use short pips on my backhand (Nittaku Moristo SP 1.8mm to be exact).

I was just curious which of these blades would be most suited for a BH short pips-oriented player in order to win points.

Just for context though and as an extra point of consideration, I prefer opening up on backspin on my forehand side with a slow spinny loop, and only goes for quick smashes when I deem that the ball is high enough to do so.

I also read online that Timo Boll blade series of the same counterparts uses Koto as an outer ply whereas the Zhang Jike series uses Limba as an outer ply. Can anyone confirm or deny these allegations? And if they are true, how does that affect each blade's playing characteristics? And how does the equivalents of the TB series compare to the equivalents of the ZJK series?

**Side note**
I was also thinking about switching to Cybershape carbon, but I was not sure if it would be suitable for a BH short pips-oriented player like me.

If anybody has any input I would value them greatly. Thanks!

 

[kingkimchi]

I think szlc would be too big a jump for a sp player, considering you're already using quite a thick sponge on the sp. I believe that t5000 might be even faster than zlc? but I'm not sure about the outer ply of it. Maybe stick with the zjk zlc first, or I would recommend a ovtcharov alc as most of my sp friends use it and its great. Innerforce blades like so are great for slow looping backspin. What are you planning to use for fh?

 

[zeio]

...whereas the Zhang Jike series uses Limba as an outer ply. Can anyone confirm or deny these allegations?

That's an intriguing question.

 

[NextLevel]

That's an intriguing question.

Lol. Not really. The Zhang Jike series uses Koto as well. Not sure who gave him bad information.

 

[jekyll&hyde]

Lol. Not really. The Zhang Jike series uses Koto as well. Not sure who gave him bad information.

Thanks for clearing that up! Rly gotta slap my friend on the back of the neck for that one

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks for clearing that up! Rly gotta slap my friend on the back of the neck for that one

Not at all. Butterfly makes a lot of blades with virtually the same composition, the only variables are handle design, which is very important, but sometimes used by reviewers to tell stories that are clearly unscientific and whose storytelling may be revealed if more things (weight, blade production batch) are equalized. Handle and wing design does drive differences, but not so much that you can't tell that a modern Viscaria and a modern FZD ALC are the same blade with different handles. The weights and the handles might give you different feelings for your technique, but it isn't like the blades would appeal to radically different players.

The ZJK series is largely being replaced by the Fan Zhendong series (marketing, you don't sign the current world champion and continue to market the ancient one as much) and T5000 koto outer blades are going out of fashion (business decision), I think the ZJK is the last one. I think the SZLC in general gives a better looping experience for such blades in general so if you want a really fast looping blade, SZLC is there. SALC is also available now though I haven't tried it.

Limba is more the Harimoto series or other innerforce blades and the Jun Mizutani and Freitas for outerforce blades. IMHO, a blade is a blade, it is up to you to make it sing once it is a reliable weapon. And with the new ball, many weapons are reliable if you invest the time to learn them. Just try to make sure you have tested what someone else is using and have the patience to master whatever you decide to use. The good thing about these expensive composite blades is that they can last pretty much forever if you aren't regluing too often.

 

[jekyll&hyde]

Not at all. Butterfly makes a lot of blades with virtually the same composition, the only variables are handle design, which is very important, but sometimes used by reviewers to tell stories that are clearly unscientific and whose storytelling may be revealed if more things (weight, blade production batch) are equalized. Handle and wing design does drive differences, but not so much that you can't tell that a modern Viscaria and a modern FZD ALC are the same blade with different handles. The weights and the handles might give you different feelings for your technique, but it isn't like the blades would appeal to radically different players.

The ZJK series is largely being replaced by the Fan Zhendong series (marketing, you don't sign the current world champion and continue to market the ancient one as much) and T5000 koto outer blades are going out of fashion (business decision), I think the ZJK is the last one. I think the SZLC in general gives a better looping experience for such blades in general so if you want a really fast looping blade, SZLC is there. SALC is also available now though I haven't tried it.

Limba is more the Harimoto series or other innerforce blades and the Jun Mizutani and Freitas for outerforce blades. IMHO, a blade is a blade, it is up to you to make it sing once it is a reliable weapon. And with the new ball, many weapons are reliable if you invest the time to learn them. Just try to make sure you have tested what someone else is using and have the patience to master whatever you decide to use. The good thing about these expensive composite blades is that they can last pretty much forever if you aren't regluing too often.

So assuming that I focus more on BH short pips punching, would the T5000 be more suitable than the SZLC?

I'm guessing both T5000 and SZLC have pretty low throw angles, so I'll have to pair them with rubbers with higher throw angles such as Rakza Z or Dignics 09c/05 on my forehand side?

 

[jekyll&hyde]

I think szlc would be too big a jump for a sp player, considering you're already using quite a thick sponge on the sp. I believe that t5000 might be even faster than zlc? but I'm not sure about the outer ply of it. Maybe stick with the zjk zlc first, or I would recommend a ovtcharov alc as most of my sp friends use it and its great. Innerforce blades like so are great for slow looping backspin. What are you planning to use for fh?

Would reducing the thickness of my short pips to let's say 1.5mm help alleviate that issue?

 

[NextLevel]

So assuming that I focus more on BH short pips punching, would the T5000 be more suitable than the SZLC?

I'm guessing both T5000 and SZLC have pretty low throw angles, so I'll have to pair them with rubbers with higher throw angles such as Rakza Z or Dignics 09c/05 on my forehand side?

The SZLC will have a higher throw angle than the T5000 for sure, at least when looping hard. Don't ask me for all the physics, but T5000 is really like a brick, I can only stand it in innerforce blades or hinoki carbon.

For the pips, a lot comes down to technique, many people who hit with pips often relatively prefer slower blades because their flatter techniques need some feeling. Those who like harder outers often use blades dampened in some fashion (innerforce or some other dampening design). So I am not sure what your technical preference is, I don't know many pips players who use blades in this speed range to be honest. The people I know use Acoustics, Acoustic Carbons, and maybe on the fast end, the fastest I have seen on a pips player is the Cybershape. Not saying these faster Butterfly blades won't work, but just saying my experience and pointing out that being able to hit the ball flatter doesn't mean the blade itself should be much faster (often, it is actually the opposite).

 

[jekyll&hyde]

The SZLC will have a higher throw angle than the T5000 for sure, at least when looping hard. Don't ask me for all the physics, but T5000 is really like a brick, I can only stand it in innerforce blades or hinoki carbon.

For the pips, a lot comes down to technique, many people who hit with pips often relatively prefer slower blades because their flatter techniques need some feeling. Those who like harder outers often use blades dampened in some fashion (innerforce or some other dampening design). So I am not sure what your technical preference is, I don't know many pips players who use blades in this speed range to be honest. The people I know use Acoustics, Acoustic Carbons, and maybe on the fast end, the fastest I have seen on a pips player is the Cybershape. Not saying these faster Butterfly blades won't work, but just saying my experience and pointing out that being able to hit the ball flatter doesn't mean the blade itself should be much faster (often, it is actually the opposite).

Interesting that you brought up Innerforce. Me personally, I look for speed to kill with my BH short pips flip and punch, but also the control to block and spin and power to loop on my FH inverted. It seems that the Butterfly Innerforce technology would be perfect for my preferences.

I know that butterfly has:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC
Harimoto Innerforce ALC
Harimoto Innerforce ZLC
Harimoto Innerforce SZLC

I may choose one of these 4 blades to replace my old and crusty Ebenholz 7 but do you or anyone have any input on which will be more suitable? It is difficult to find information online which compares these 4 blades.

 

[NextLevel]

Interesting that you brought up Innerforce. Me personally, I look for speed to kill with my BH short pips flip and punch, but also the control to block and spin and power to loop on my FH inverted. It seems that the Butterfly Innerforce technology would be perfect for my preferences.

I know that butterfly has:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC
Harimoto Innerforce ALC
Harimoto Innerforce ZLC
Harimoto Innerforce SZLC

I may choose one of these 4 blades to replace my old and crusty Ebenholz 7 but do you or anyone have any input on which will be more suitable? It is difficult to find information online which compares these 4 blades.

I don't know much about the Ebenholz (I think it might be a harder outer ply but that is about it). The Butterfly Innerforce blades are limba outer plies so that is one consideration.

IMHO, the more important thing is to find a player you like who does what you intend to do at a reasonable level relative to your goals and mimic their equipment choices. But if that is not a consideration for you when investing in a blade this costly, any of the above may suit you, the SZLC is the fastest one, but none of them have strong kick unless you really drive the ball, they are not designed for quick ball release primarily, but more to have a bit more woody feeling in a carbon blade.

 

[kingkimchi]

Would reducing the thickness of my short pips to let's say 1.5mm help alleviate that issue?

I dont think so. Personally, I wouldn't recomend even no spongew long pips for a zjk szlc. Since sp is natrually fast and bouncy, I reccomend you to look for not so bouncy blades, otherwise the racket will be uncontrollable.

 

[kingkimchi]

Nittaku acoustic carbon inner or outer will do it. Choose inner force the ease of slow, spinny loops. Or we can look back at the perspective of the ovtcharov inner alc.

 

[jekyll&hyde]

Nittaku acoustic carbon inner or outer will do it. Choose inner force the ease of slow, spinny loops. Or we can look back at the perspective of the ovtcharov inner alc.

How would you compare the Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC to the Harimoto Innerforce Super ZLC if by chance you have experience with these 2 blades?

 

[kingkimchi]

How would you compare the Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC to the Harimoto Innerforce Super ZLC if by chance you have experience with these 2 blades?

Harimoto szlc is slightly heavier, head heavier, thicker handle and bouncier than the ovtcharov alc. For short pips its nbetter to go with the lighter option. Maybe try the nittaku mima ito carbon as she uses sp with it too. Not too familiar with that nittaku blade tho, she uses it and it seems to be a good fit for her and moristo sp.