Developing player with some potential :)

[Steinmejer]

I would say keep the current blade and try something like K3 for a while.

My recommendation for what it is worth - keep your blade, switch to a rubber like Tibhar K3 which will give you more grip and touch and just train hard, especially in the over the table game, from there. It is okay if you switch blade too, but most of the reward is in the training hours, the equipment will help but since you are already used to your blade, there is nothing wrong with keeping it. If you want to try something else, go ahead, but don't waste too much time, almost everything you want is mostly in the training hours and deciding whether you want to use sticky rubbers or not.

I might already have dignics 09c on my spare blade, my i should give it a spin😉 thanks for the feedback.

 

[Musaab]

EJing and aspiring player don't go together. If you are really serious about your table tennis journey performance you should start with a slower wood only setup. You learn the right strokes and inscribe them in your muscles memory then you move to a faster blade.
You could still EJ while respecting this order i.e. try different blades/rubbers/handles but in the range of off- . Once you are on the other side of wood blades , another EJ journey starts with carbon blades ALC/Inner/super ZLC etc ...

 

[Steinmejer]

EJing and aspiring player don't go together. If you are really serious about your table tennis journey performance you should start with a slower wood only setup. You learn the right strokes and inscribe them in your muscles memory then you move to a faster blade.
You could still EJ while respecting this order i.e. try different blades/rubbers/handles but in the range of off- . Once you are on the other side of wood blades , another EJ journey starts with carbon blades ALC/Inner/super ZLC etc ...

why is it that you cannot learn the right mechanics with a faster blade? I mean of course it can be hard to learn with certain equipment due to what it requires. But skill should not only be a produkt of what you use but what you put into your training? For instance if your equipment is more forgiving you will eventually have to adjust to a faster setup later in your journey? Where is the balance? Ofc the fastest blade is not right but is there a middle ground? Thank you for your input👍👌 great feedback.

 

[z0uLess]

You seem to have tremendous success in your playing. Do you have any videos of yourself that you can show, or did you play any table tennis before starting in a club or any other racket sports? I started from scratch myself, but I have now been playing for a year and I have not been able to lift my rating, yet. I started at age 38 and I am using mid range beginner setup (Stiga Offensive Classic with Rakza Z and Mark V).

 

[Steinmejer]

you seem to have tremendous success in your playing. do you have any videos of yourself that you can show, or did you play any table tennis before starting in a club or any other racket sports?

Nope used to play handball on high level and practice shaolin kung fu on quite good level aswell. Hmm I don't think I'm as good as you might think, in my country I think the table tennis level is different from germany or those of higher level. Small country and not as many players ofc there is good players Michael maze and so on. Hmm maybe I have video but mostly my serves are good and I'm left handed that might be off putting😂 I could definitely have better movement.

 

[z0uLess]

I would love to check out video of you playing. I have loads of video of me on my channel btw, https://www.youtube.com/@z0uLess/videos

 

[Gozo Aruna]

why is it that you cannot learn the right mechanics with a faster blade? I mean of course it can be hard to learn with certain equipment due to what it requires. But skill should not only be a produkt of what you use but what you put into your training? For instance if your equipment is more forgiving you will eventually have to adjust to a faster setup later in your journey? Where is the balance? Ofc the fastest blade is not right but is there a middle ground? Thank you for your input👍👌 great feedback.

1. You do ask a pertinent question and should deserve a more well-thought answer.

2. A club-mate of mine sent her son to the same coach as I and after only three months, he told him to get a Viscaria. All his students are on Viscaria ( boys ) or Innerforce ( girls ). Why these two blades? Well, my guess is that it easier for him to teach to en-mass, i.e., standardized equipment.

3. The notion that noobies must start with slow blade is not a gospel truth but mainly more applicable to basement players or recreational or rec-players for short. If a player is academy or properly trained, I guess using a fast blade is not an issue if being under proper guidance.

4. BTW, this youngling, after only three or four months of proper training, I do see him improve by leaps and bounds and can hold his own amongst rec-players who have played years and years.

 

[latej]

why is it that you cannot learn the right mechanics with a faster blade? I mean of course it can be hard to learn with certain equipment due to what it requires. But skill should not only be a produkt of what you use but what you put into your training? For instance if your equipment is more forgiving you will eventually have to adjust to a faster setup later in your journey? Where is the balance? Ofc the fastest blade is not right but is there a middle ground? Thank you for your input👍👌 great feedback.

Hi, imo, you should not feel the need to hold yourself back, the setup should not be that fast. Or from the other side, ideally the setup is so slow, that you really go for the strokes. That's good for the stroke development, to use the body more, imo.

We all progress differently, but 6 months is quite a short time. I think your blade is a good blade, I have Viscaria too. With your setup, I'd feel a bit uncomfortable. So if you want to stay with it (and there is nothing wrong with it), I'd put slow rubbers on it, like e.g. H3 H39 on FH and H3 H37 on BH, for the moment.

 

[turbozed]

1. You do ask a pertinent question and should deserve a more well-thought answer.

2. A club-mate of mine sent her son to the same coach as I and after only three months, he told him to get a Viscaria. All his students are on Viscaria ( boys ) or Innerforce ( girls ). Why these two blades? Well, my guess is that it easier for him to teach to en-mass, i.e., standardized equipment.

3. The notion that noobies must start with slow blade is not a gospel truth but mainly more applicable to basement players or recreational or rec-players for short. If a player is academy or properly trained, I guess using a fast blade is not an issue if being under proper guidance.

4. BTW, this youngling, after only three or four months of proper training, I do see him improve by leaps and bounds and can hold his own amongst rec-players who have played years and years.

I wonder if the young age of the players starting with fast setups is a significant factor here. It's well understood that aging results in loss of nerve sensitivity and signalling speed. Cutaneous sensation in the hands also decreases by age (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705116/).

The idea of using a wood blade to develop seems to be centered around feeling and feedback. There has to be a feedback mechanism for you to feel when you've hit it right or wrong in order to error correct. There has to be enough sensation transferred to your hand to feel the brushing and grip of the ball against the rubber.

Perhaps with the new larger and heavier ball (8% increase), this was enough for youth to feel all of the above without any issue. Material technology has also likely improved since the earlier days of composite blades.

There's also probably quite a bit of variation in individual sense perception even within the same age group to muddy the picture. This is all just speculation though. There's probably no reliable way to answer the question. You'd have to control for too many variables in order to single the composition of the blade out as a factor for faster/slower development.

 

[dingyibvs]

why is it that you cannot learn the right mechanics with a faster blade? I mean of course it can be hard to learn with certain equipment due to what it requires. But skill should not only be a produkt of what you use but what you put into your training? For instance if your equipment is more forgiving you will eventually have to adjust to a faster setup later in your journey? Where is the balance? Ofc the fastest blade is not right but is there a middle ground? Thank you for your input👍👌 great feedback.

You can learn the right mechanics with pretty much any popular setup. The main thing is to focus on your technique and not winning points. Winning will naturally come as you improve your technique. The fast vs. slow setup debate is really a matter of mindset.

If you have the mindset of needing to win as much as possible every time you play, then choose a slow setup, because with a fast setup you'll be holding back and playing with worse technique in order to land balls on the table. If you have the mindset of needing to improve your technique as much as possible every time you play, then choose a fast set up, because with a fast setup you'll have less margin of error and you can only land a shot with the proper technique.

If you're getting regular coaching with a coach, then it doesn't really matter. A good coach will only focus on your technique, not on your success rate in landing shot. Ultimately the only reason anyone ever misses a shot that he can reach with any reasonable setup is suboptimal technique, and a good coach will be able to pick out your shortcomings even if when you hit a shot if you're using the wrong technique.

Most TT players are of the first mindset, so you'll hear a lot of recommendations to play with a slower setup. Personally I'm of the second mindset. For example, a couple months ago I posted a video of my practice for comments. The comments re: taking some heat off of my shots I disregarded, but comments re: technique improvements e.g. incorporating the body more on my BH or keeping the elbow lower than the hand on the FH, I took to heart, explored, found them to be useful, and now am actively incorporating into my practices and play.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I wonder if the young age of the players starting with fast setups is a significant factor here. It's well understood that aging results in loss of nerve sensitivity and signalling speed. Cutaneous sensation in the hands also decreases by age (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705116/).

The idea of using a wood blade to develop seems to be centered around feeling and feedback. There has to be a feedback mechanism for you to feel when you've hit it right or wrong in order to error correct. There has to be enough sensation transferred to your hand to feel the brushing and grip of the ball against the rubber.

Perhaps with the new larger and heavier ball (8% increase), this was enough for youth to feel all of the above without any issue. Material technology has also likely improved since the earlier days of composite blades.

There's also probably quite a bit of variation in individual sense perception even within the same age group to muddy the picture. This is all just speculation though. There's probably no reliable way to answer the question. You'd have to control for too many variables in order to single the composition of the blade out as a factor for faster/slower development.

Forget to mention, my club-mate son is a teenager: U15 category.

Not too long ago, during one of my chit-chat session with my coach, he did mention that due to the bigger sized ball these days, there is less spin and the ball is relatively slower. He said one curious statement, i.e., he said if 38mm ball is still around, the veteran would still be able to kick these kids arses with just tricky serve. But alas, these days with 40mm++ ball, the goal is to out-rally each other ( 白 速 ) instead which favours youthful athleticism.

 

[CLV]

You can learn the right mechanics with pretty much any popular setup. The main thing is to focus on your technique and not winning points. Winning will naturally come as you improve your technique. The fast vs. slow setup debate is really a matter of mindset.

If you have the mindset of needing to win as much as possible every time you play, then choose a slow setup, because with a fast setup you'll be holding back and playing with worse technique in order to land balls on the table. If you have the mindset of needing to improve your technique as much as possible every time you play, then choose a fast set up, because with a fast setup you'll have less margin of error and you can only land a shot with the proper technique.

If you're getting regular coaching with a coach, then it doesn't really matter. A good coach will only focus on your technique, not on your success rate in landing shot. Ultimately the only reason anyone ever misses a shot that he can reach with any reasonable setup is suboptimal technique, and a good coach will be able to pick out your shortcomings even if when you hit a shot if you're using the wrong technique.

Most TT players are of the first mindset, so you'll hear a lot of recommendations to play with a slower setup. Personally I'm of the second mindset. For example, a couple months ago I posted a video of my practice for comments. The comments re: taking some heat off of my shots I disregarded, but comments re: technique improvements e.g. incorporating the body more on my BH or keeping the elbow lower than the hand on the FH, I took to heart, explored, found them to be useful, and now am actively incorporating into my practices and play.

I think this is a valid point. I'm also in the camp of play with equipment that makes you adjust your technique. That way, you miss more but will have a higher potentiel. If you stick with it, you'll get better.

Don't go crazy and play the fastest rubbers with the fastest blade. But play a reasonal setup and you'll be fine.

Also play with something you like and feel good about. That's half the battle. If you feel comfortable with your setup you'll have more confidence and play better.

 

[Der_Echte]

Get a Schildkrot 900.

 

[NextLevel]

I think this is a valid point. I'm also in the camp of play with equipment that makes you adjust your technique. That way, you miss more but will have a higher potentiel. If you stick with it, you'll get better.

Don't go crazy and play the fastest rubbers with the fastest blade. But play a reasonal setup and you'll be fine.

Also play with something you like and feel good about. That's half the battle. If you feel comfortable with your setup you'll have more confidence and play better.

The problem is not just missing more, the problem is that the equipment can limit your growth in specific ways, but that is usually partly down to the coaching and the training. But a lot of these things have become not as hardcore with the new balls.

 

[NextLevel]

You can learn the right mechanics with pretty much any popular setup. The main thing is to focus on your technique and not winning points. Winning will naturally come as you improve your technique. The fast vs. slow setup debate is really a matter of mindset.

If you have the mindset of needing to win as much as possible every time you play, then choose a slow setup, because with a fast setup you'll be holding back and playing with worse technique in order to land balls on the table. If you have the mindset of needing to improve your technique as much as possible every time you play, then choose a fast set up, because with a fast setup you'll have less margin of error and you can only land a shot with the proper technique.

If you're getting regular coaching with a coach, then it doesn't really matter. A good coach will only focus on your technique, not on your success rate in landing shot. Ultimately the only reason anyone ever misses a shot that he can reach with any reasonable setup is suboptimal technique, and a good coach will be able to pick out your shortcomings even if when you hit a shot if you're using the wrong technique.

Most TT players are of the first mindset, so you'll hear a lot of recommendations to play with a slower setup. Personally I'm of the second mindset. For example, a couple months ago I posted a video of my practice for comments. The comments re: taking some heat off of my shots I disregarded, but comments re: technique improvements e.g. incorporating the body more on my BH or keeping the elbow lower than the hand on the FH, I took to heart, explored, found them to be useful, and now am actively incorporating into my practices and play.

The thing is that taking heat off the shots is partly a technical test, it just isn't always described that way. The good thing about hitting the ball hard is that it reveals technical inadequacy, the bad thing about hitting the ball hard is that it can cover up for technical inadequacy, Ultimately, technique is supposed to produce quality, so if you are already producing quality with suboptimal body usage, it makes the technical issues harder to discuss. In any case, all of this is abstract outside of match play, as long as it works and doesn't cause injury, all is well.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Timo Ball CAF, for example, has a very good characteristic near the table but when you step back and loop with power it’s almost like carbon blade. Pair it with rakza z or some other kind of modern hybrids in 2,0 and you would be satisfied in every aspect: power, control, and speed when needed it’s like “mini viscaria”, just better for the new ball
Korbel, Primorac are good options as well

 

[NextLevel]

I wonder if the young age of the players starting with fast setups is a significant factor here. It's well understood that aging results in loss of nerve sensitivity and signalling speed. Cutaneous sensation in the hands also decreases by age (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705116/).

The idea of using a wood blade to develop seems to be centered around feeling and feedback. There has to be a feedback mechanism for you to feel when you've hit it right or wrong in order to error correct. There has to be enough sensation transferred to your hand to feel the brushing and grip of the ball against the rubber.

Perhaps with the new larger and heavier ball (8% increase), this was enough for youth to feel all of the above without any issue. Material technology has also likely improved since the earlier days of composite blades.

There's also probably quite a bit of variation in individual sense perception even within the same age group to muddy the picture. This is all just speculation though. There's probably no reliable way to answer the question. You'd have to control for too many variables in order to single the composition of the blade out as a factor for faster/slower development.

This is an excellent post, agrees with my experience and should be discussed more deeply.

 

[dingyibvs]

The thing is that taking heat off the shots is partly a technical test, it just isn't always described that way. The good thing about hitting the ball hard is that it reveals technical inadequacy, the bad thing about hitting the ball hard is that it can cover up for technical inadequacy, Ultimately, technique is supposed to produce quality, so if you are already producing quality with suboptimal body usage, it makes the technical issues harder to discuss. In any case, all of this is abstract outside of match play, as long as it works and doesn't cause injury, all is well.

That's a good point as well! I think that's why recording and watching yourself play and seeking advice is important. There can be gains made when you dont even realize it.

 

[NextLevel]

That's a good point as well! I think that's why recording and watching yourself play and seeking advice is important. There can be gains made when you dont even realize it.

Self monitoring is the critical part of adult improvement, I don't know any adult players who make serious gains without recording themselves. They surely exist, but I don't know them.

 

[Steinmejer]

1. You do ask a pertinent question and should deserve a more well-thought answer.

2. A club-mate of mine sent her son to the same coach as I and after only three months, he told him to get a Viscaria. All his students are on Viscaria ( boys ) or Innerforce ( girls ). Why these two blades? Well, my guess is that it easier for him to teach to en-mass, i.e., standardized equipment.

3. The notion that noobies must start with slow blade is not a gospel truth but mainly more applicable to basement players or recreational or rec-players for short. If a player is academy or properly trained, I guess using a fast blade is not an issue if being under proper guidance.

4. BTW, this youngling, after only three or four months of proper training, I do see him improve by leaps and bounds and can hold his own amongst rec-players who have played years and years.

Well that might what I experience aswell. Thank your for going more into detail about it, I am also quite happy with blade but I might finde another rubber than mx-p for my forhånd. I do find my self spending a lot of time learning and researching my flaws. Maybe something with more grip or less catapult.