What style of player or rating group below your level give you the most trouble?

NextLevel · Dec 26, 2017

pgpg said:
I'd say it's both: it is poor sportsmanship to cheer/cho missed serves (IMHO, at least if it comes from your opponent, parents and spectators are not subject to the same rules, I suspect). But - you must develop resistance/mental toughness against this behavior, or you will be at serious disadvantage.

I know it originally annoyed me a lot when opponent loudly said 'Thank you' after I botch the serve, so I'm kind of with Lermanator on this, but I also knew I had to learn to ignore it, because what else you can do - umpire is unlikely to call it, and, by the way, we don't have umpires anyway, so you are back to square one, but now they are in your head . I think I'm better at ignoring this now...

The opponent saying "thank you" is one of those annoying traits people pick up in club play, but I can be just as irritated by apologies as I know they are ultimately insincere given the sports rules, and many opponents apologize for my serve misses etc.. And most of the cheering does come from spectators with very few exceptions.

The truth is I have lost many matches from being cheered against while I played an opponent on foreign club turf, sometimes even on home club turf if they had some clueless guy cheering who didn't realize it was a club match and wanted me to lose to someone from his own ethnic group. But over time, I realized that it was a zero sum game, you can't be too picky about how your opponent wins points since you can't win points without him losing them and vice versa.

I like good sportsmanship sure, but it's a zero sum game. When you lose, your opponent wins, and this is true for every point of the game. So it's pretty reasonable for them to celebrate your bad serve misses as it takes them one step closer to their goal. And this is as mental a sport as any out there, anything that has you playing less than 95% puts your opponent at a significant advantage if you are both closely matched up.

I mean, look at the coaches clapping from their seats during matches like LGL and Rosskopf, it's just gone to another level now.

pgpg · Dec 26, 2017

NextLevel said:
The opponent saying "thank you" is one of those annoying traits people pick up in club play, but I can be just as irritated by apologies as I know they are ultimately insincere given the sports rules, and many opponents apologize for my serve misses etc.. And most of the cheering does come from spectators with very few exceptions.

The truth is I have lost many matches from being cheered against while I played an opponent on foreign club turf, sometimes even on home club turf if they had some clueless guy cheering who didn't realize it was a club match and wanted me to lose to someone from his own ethnic group. But over time, I realized that it was a zero sum game, you can't be too picky about how your opponent wins points since you can't win points without him losing them and vice versa.

I like good sportsmanship sure, but it's a zero sum game. When you lose, your opponent wins, and this is true for every point of the game. So it's pretty reasonable for them to celebrate your bad serve misses as it takes them one step closer to their goal. And this is as mental a sport as any out there, anything that has you playing less than 95% puts your opponent at a significant advantage if you are both closely matched up.

I mean, look at the coaches clapping from their seats during matches like LGL and Rosskopf, it's just gone to another level now.

Interestingly enough, I am much better at tuning out spectators and coaches than I do opponents, I almost do not notice them. Same goes for my teammates, as I discovered at Teams this November, I pretty much do not hear their cheers either, or at least I think I don't. Ideally I'd want to behave like Wu Yang or Han Ying during the match, they appear totally emotionless. Whatever happens, on to the next point.

So, whatever LGL and Rosskopf do, does not bother me somehow.I actually never noticed what they even do during the match until you mentioned it, applauding or something else, need to re-watch few videos.

NextLevel · Dec 26, 2017

pgpg said:
Interestingly enough, I am much better at tuning out spectators and coaches than I do opponents, I almost do not notice them. Same goes for my teammates, as I discovered at Teams this November, I pretty much do not hear their cheers either, or at least I think I don't. Ideally I'd want to behave like Wu Yang or Han Ying during the match, they appear totally emotionless. Whatever happens, on to the next point.

So, whatever LGL and Rosskopf do, does not bother me somehow.I actually never noticed what they even do during the match until you mentioned it, applauding or something else, need to re-watch few videos.

If you can stay that way it is good for you. It is hard not to let the opinions of others affect you sometimes but tuning it out is best.

Der_Echte · Dec 26, 2017

brokenball said:
Show us ONE example of a 'skillful' player that averages 4 or more net/edges a match.
I have never heard of a multi ball "hit the edge" or "hit the net and roll over drill".
These "skillful" players are "skillful" without practicing?
Do these "skillful" players 'cho' ( actually spelled qiu in pinyin ) their edges and net balls? Most players, even the best Chinese players, acknowledge their luck or good break.

2200ish forever rater James Therriault averages 4+ net/edge balls a match regularly, sometime that magic #4 is his total for 1/2 a game. There are a few in my area who do that at levels ranging from 1400 to 1900. None of these guys Cho, yet there is one friend who is real happy when he gets those in a match, he knows I was gunna pound him on the next ball, so he is gleeful it didn't happen.

Dealing with net balls is tough, timing is disruptive, but prior good balance and knee bend lets you take that one step forward if the ball is savable.

brokenball · Dec 26, 2017

Der_Echte said:
2200ish forever rater James Therriault averages 4+ net/edge balls a match regularly, sometime that magic #4 is his total for 1/2 a game.

That doesn't prove anything. It just means Therriault is a lucky good player instead of one of those lucky poor players I am complaining about.
This thread is about players with ratings below you. Seriously, when a lower rated player gets an edge or net ball do you attribute that to skill?

Baal · Dec 26, 2017

SP penholders, especially if left handed.

Der_Echte · Dec 27, 2017

brokenball said:
That doesn't prove anything. It just means Therriault is a lucky good player instead of one of those lucky poor players I am complaining about.
This thread is about players with ratings below you. Seriously, when a lower rated player gets an edge or net ball do you attribute that to skill?

One ball can be luck, but landing more of these kinds of nets a match is a skill. I accept it, you do not have to accept it without a double blind study covertly funded by a big pharma company.

Der_Echte · Dec 27, 2017

A player with the right kind of low impact can get favorable odds in a net situation, high rated or not. A player with good touch dropping ball over net is gunna get the bounce of the net more times than not, higher rated or not, yet it is usually the higher rated players doing this.

If a player who never averages more than a net or two a match suddenly gets 10 net edges in a match, then there is a lucky day going on, but still they earned those points, they count the same as if they setup a FH skull-drug kill ball.

In general, a player with a much higher level of skill than me is gunna get more luck in a match. That is how it goes in our sport. If I allow a player who is a few levels below me to hang around a match and he suddenly gets real lucky crazy frequent edge net balls, then he deserves his luck. Sometimes, the better player doesn't win, that is how it can go in this sport.

When players are new to the sport, these things are difficult to accept, but after a few years, the pattern is visible.

Anyone not willing to accept the "Bounce of the Ball" as it sometimes doesn't bounce our way so to speak and cry blood murder - God save the queen have done the equivalent of jamming their foot up their tail so deep it comes out of their mouth dripping with what was rotting inside.

Der_Echte hizself was a victim of such a fate vs a better player who I was leading deep in the 5th set of a semis match in US Open when Heavy Spin got 4 net/edge balls in last 5 points to win. I didn't cry about it, I blogged about it at MyTT, anyone can read it for themselves and see how I treated it. You would be amazed, you would have expected me to have run across the court to rip off my opponent's head & defecate down hiz neck out of anger... or make a war zone out of the immediate vicinity, but did nothing of the sort. I congratulated him on his luck born from his skill.

langel · Dec 27, 2017

My opinion is that a lower level player would not benefit much of netted balls. Dead balls will either jump over the table, or be slowed and highered.
On the other side a sharp wellspinned spike brushing the net will still land the table, but deaper and even edging for a "double luck". But such a shot is really amazing and usually it's applauded by the opponent too. The same is with heavy sidespinned balls hugging the net and zigzaging through its' edge no metter on which side they land - such balls are applauded too, because they are spectacular and because they reveal the hidden quality of the shot. Or a well chopped semilob near the net - it lands clean on the table, but after rebounce either come back over the net, or die in it after a little dance - such shots are absolutely killers and are applauded as well.

suds79 · Dec 27, 2017

Overseer Kevin said:
I hate low, double bounce, spinny topspin serves to my forehand!!! To low to attack with the forehand. And my flick isn't good enough to consistently attack it with backhand.

I didn't see anybody reply to this but there's an easy fix for this one.

First off, doing a short double bounce with some version of topspin on it isn't easy. I'm talking about in matches. A lot of people tend to send those just long when the pressure is on. Still, if you're playing people who can do it consistently, props them. They'll get a lot of intermediate players who get lazy and want to push anything over the table if they're not sure what spin is on the ball.

Now to your issue. So it sounds like your FH flick isn't your strong point. That's fine. Something to work on. But the simple solution is to simply block that ball back in place. I'm not sure if you're sending that ball long or into the net trying to attack it but sometimes I like to tell myself if I'm facing a good server or someone who has a serve that's getting me to just neutralize on my service receive. You'll get them back when it's your time to serve. Anyways, you block will be plenty safe vs that serve. It should be easy with no fear of you making an error vs that serve. It won't be very fast so you should focus on placement of that block to put the in a position to where they can't easily 3rd ball attack it...... Or just step around it and give us your best FZD impression and BH flick that thing. Your choice.

Side note. One thing I'm try to add to my game (particularly vs short serves. Vs Long i try to always loop mostly) is to vary the spin of my blocks. So vs your serve you mentioned for example. If you block (blade slightly closed) that and ever so slightly move your arm like a counter hit forward, you'd return that topspin serve back to them topspin right? Well I'm trying to add a dead block every now & then just for variation. I find this easier to do on short serves. Same blade face vs a topspin serve (slightly closed) but instead of moving forward slightly like a normal swing. You kinda chop block it with that slightly closed face. The ball's spin will be essentially dead for them and if you're subtle with your motion (don't chop block very hard giving away what you're doing), if they don't pick up on it, you might get an error out of them on their 3rd ball. Just food for thought.

Overseer Kevin · Dec 28, 2017

suds79 said:
I didn't see anybody reply to this but there's an easy fix for this one.

First off, doing a short double bounce with some version of topspin on it isn't easy. I'm talking about in matches. A lot of people tend to send those just long when the pressure is on. Still, if you're playing people who can do it consistently, props them. They'll get a lot of intermediate players who get lazy and want to push anything over the table if they're not sure what spin is on the ball.

Now to your issue. So it sounds like your FH flick isn't your strong point. That's fine. Something to work on. But the simple solution is to simply block that ball back in place. I'm not sure if you're sending that ball long or into the net trying to attack it but sometimes I like to tell myself if I'm facing a good server or someone who has a serve that's getting me to just neutralize on my service receive. You'll get them back when it's your time to serve. Anyways, you block will be plenty safe vs that serve. It should be easy with no fear of you making an error vs that serve. It won't be very fast so you should focus on placement of that block to put the in a position to where they can't easily 3rd ball attack it...... Or just step around it and give us your best FZD impression and BH flick that thing. Your choice.

Side note. One thing I'm try to add to my game (particularly vs short serves. Vs Long i try to always loop mostly) is to vary the spin of my blocks. So vs your serve you mentioned for example. If you block (blade slightly closed) that and ever so slightly move your arm like a counter hit forward, you'd return that topspin serve back to them topspin right? Well I'm trying to add a dead block every now & then just for variation. I find this easier to do on short serves. Same blade face vs a topspin serve (slightly closed) but instead of moving forward slightly like a normal swing. You kinda chop block it with that slightly closed face. The ball's spin will be essentially dead for them and if you're subtle with your motion (don't chop block very hard giving away what you're doing), if they don't pick up on it, you might get an error out of them on their 3rd ball. Just food for thought.

Awesome advice. I'll be sure to try those tactics the next time i play my buddy. He recently went out to Vegas to play in the big tournament out there.

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What style of player or rating group below your level give you the most trouble?

NextLevel

NextLevel

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pgpg

pgpg

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NextLevel

NextLevel

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Der_Echte

Der_Echte

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brokenball

brokenball

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Baal

Baal

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Der_Echte

Der_Echte

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Der_Echte

Der_Echte

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langel

langel

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suds79

suds79

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Overseer Kevin

Overseer Kevin

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