Higher or lower throw

Flight-Johan · Mar 16, 2020

Hello there!

I'm just wondering what your preference is in the throw of the blade and rubber. Do you prefer a lower throw with a more direct arc or a higher arc, and why?

Also, I'm wondering for who you would recommend a blade or setup with a more direct arc?

Kuba Hajto · Mar 16, 2020

I prefer lower arc on FH, because it is more demanding and thus more rewarding. For BH I prefer mid throw.

brokenball · Mar 16, 2020

What the OP is really talking about is a spin to speed ratio. The arc is determined by the stroke. High arcs are easier to achieve with rubbers with a higher spin to speed ratio but I like slower and spinier rubbers because I play close to the table and don't need speed. I do not like high arcs. The arc should be just high enough to get over the net and still land on the table. Anything else increases the flight time giving the opponent time to react.

Simas · Mar 16, 2020

lower

Nohgl · Mar 16, 2020

Can you give some rubber suggestions with low throw angle?

Kuba Hajto · Mar 16, 2020

Nohgl said:
Can you give some rubber suggestions with low throw angle?

Most of hard rubbers will have rather low throw. Let's say Jupiter 2

sammysy · Mar 16, 2020

I prefer a medium to high throw on the forehand since I have more fun with spin than speed. It also makes it a bit safer to lift heavy back spin.

pingpongpaddy · Mar 16, 2020

brokenball said:
What the OP is really talking about is a spin to speed ratio. The arc is determined by the stroke. High arcs are easier to achieve with rubbers with a higher spin to speed ratio but I like slower and spinier rubbers because I play close to the table and don't need speed. I do not like high arcs. The arc should be just high enough to get over the net and still land on the table. Anything else increases the flight time giving the opponent time to react.

actually this is a not quite right. a topspin ball which only just clears the net will land short (bad length) meaning that the ball is weak. a deep topspin landing on the end line will probably clear the net by at least 12 inches. The good news is that if you correct this part of your technique your level is going to improve a lot also your idea about the flight and reaction time iis incorrect. In fact when the ball lands deep its more effective because it tends t push opponent back whereas a short topspin is very easy to attack by moving weight forward
good luck

brokenball · Mar 16, 2020

pingpongpaddy said:
actually this is a not quite right. a topspin ball which only just clears the net will land short (bad length) meaning that the ball is weak.

The ball doesn't have to land short. Just hit with less spin for a flatter trajectory. One doesn't make the same stroke for every ball. I have a location that I want to hit and try to put just enough spin to get there as flat as possible.

a deep topspin landing on the end line will probably clear the net by at least 12 inches.

That is way too high and the ball will bounce high and take too long to land. I wait for balls like that to counter hit them.

The good news is that if you correct this part of your technique your level is going to improve a lot also your idea about the flight and reaction time iis incorrect.

Balls should land withing 100m or about 4 inches from the edge of the table. They should not go over the net more that 4 inches to minimize flight time. Short spinny loops are good for hitting the side edges at angles.
My technique is limited by age.

In fact when the ball lands deep its more effective because it tends t push opponent back whereas a short topspin is very easy to attack by moving weight forward

good luck

Most of my opponents don't move back. They will block if they can. The same goes with me.
We go for angles and pockets when possible.
I agree it is best to keep the balls deep when not hit at an angle but the ball should not bounce high.

They will block if they can.
Here is a video I made about a year ago now. I made it in support of the c-pen players. I usually don't play c-pen but the camera angle is very good so it is easy to see the arc of the ball and how the ball clears the net.
I am on the far side of the table. My style doesn't change much when playing shake hands.
https://bit.ly/2AWR2Q3
Yes, some of my balls have too much arc.
The comment I made about scooping instead of looping is a common mistake I see people make where the motion is forward first then up.
My FH rubber is Rakza 7 Soft Max and my BH rubber is LKT Pro XP top sheet that I glued to a 1.5 or 1.8mm HRS sponge I got from zeropong. Nothing fancy.

yogi_bear · Mar 16, 2020

Flight-Johan said:
Hello there!

I'm just wondering what your preference is in the throw of the blade and rubber. Do you prefer a lower throw with a more direct arc or a higher arc, and why?

Also, I'm wondering for who you would recommend a blade or setup with a more direct arc?

I am a looper and prefer high arc rubbers. It also gives you room for error clearing the net. There are rubbers that are clearly in a low throw classification when compared to other rubbers in the same blade with the same contact angle.

Zeen · Mar 17, 2020

low arc shots are not exclusive to low arc rubbers. With the right technique, you can make low arcs with high arc rubbers just as well as with low arc rubbers.

Der_Echte · Mar 17, 2020

I will support Zeen's statement by sayin'... Maybe we could say the "wrong" technique... assuming the "right" technique is high spin.

Not everyone wants to play that way, so yup, a low throw not so spiny shot is possible with even a classic high throw rubber. You simply hit the ball center solid straight and hard to get a low throw little spin.

My BH has many different combinations of spin and speed. Some BH shots I am going for high arc, high spin, and safety. Some BH shots are more direct and less arching. I do not remember having to twiddle of call a timeout to replace my bat for the different BH shots in a point.

yogi_bear · Mar 17, 2020

It is not just that type of shot but the rubber itself. You guys should try comparing a sanwei target national with hurricane 3. You will see the difference in arc despite having the same angle of contact. Fact is there are rubbers that have much lower arc despite the correctness of technique.

ajtatosmano2 · Mar 17, 2020

Nowadays I prefer higher arc rubbers. Otherwise I played well with H3, Acuda S1, Vega Pro, T64, Omega IV Asia.

Lower arc loops are NOT superior to higher arc ones. Many top players play with T05 and actually use high and powerful loops. Fang Bo is a great example of a player who varies the arc on his loops spectacularly.

Zeen · Mar 17, 2020

yogi_bear said:
It is not just that type of shot but the rubber itself. You guys should try comparing a sanwei target national with hurricane 3. You will see the difference in arc despite having the same angle of contact. Fact is there are rubbers that have much lower arc despite the correctness of technique.

low arc rubber = difficult to make high arc
high arc rubber = not really difficult to make low arc, but a bit more difficult than with low arc rubber

Kuba Hajto · Mar 17, 2020

ajtatosmano2 said:
Lower arc loops are NOT superior to higher arc ones.

TBH my engineer conscience can't agree with this. To calculate speed, there are 2 variables length of travel and time. And the lower the arc the lesser travel distance.

So if we can consider two balls that travel at same speed one at lower arc and one that travels with higher arc, then the receiver of the lower arc ball will have less time to make the move.

Also I think that if we consider two balls with same spin level but different arc then trajectory after bounce will be lower for the lower arc ball :/ If I am wrong please correct me.

ajtatosmano2 · Mar 17, 2020

Kuba Hajto said:
TBH my engineer conscience can't agree with this. To calculate speed, there are 2 variables length of travel and time. And the lower the arc the lesser travel distance.

So if we can consider two balls that travel at same speed one at lower arc and one that travels with higher arc, then the receiver of the lower arc ball will have less time to make the move.

Also I think that if we consider two balls with same spin level but different arc then trajectory after bounce will be lower for the lower arc ball :/ If I am wrong please correct me.

I just said they are not superior in gameplay. With a lower arc ball ofc the opponent has less time to react. Hovever based on the situation a higher arc loop can be more effective.
More reaction time isn't better than good position. And a higher arc ball's trajectory is usually harder to predict as well.

Konrad Bak · Mar 17, 2020

Of course you will have higher throw with 5 ply off- blade
Than 5+2 off+ blade

passifid · Mar 17, 2020

Table tennis is about a lot more than speed. A fast ball is better to kill an opponent if you can really whack it but a spinny loop can be played from below and above the table and is much more stable into a loop than a flat hit because you controll the spin more.
If speed and trajectory were all that matters then backspin would be pointless. Instead it's the bane of every new players, you can't flat hit a strong push even if it is long if it is kept low!
Personally I agree with low for forehand higher for backhand for ease of play. We also need to remember some VERY spinny rubber like h3 have a low arc because of the sponge and that is probably the hardest to return. Flat trajectory and also spinny

brokenball · Mar 18, 2020

Kuba Hajto said:
TBH my engineer conscience can't agree with this. To calculate speed, there are 2 variables length of travel and time. And the lower the arc the lesser travel distance.

So if we can consider two balls that travel at same speed one at lower arc and one that travels with higher arc, then the receiver of the lower arc ball will have less time to make the move.

Also I think that if we consider two balls with same spin level but different arc then trajectory after bounce will be lower for the lower arc ball :/ If I am wrong please correct me.

I agree and gave you a like. I am an engineer too and an expert at motion control.

Higher or lower throw

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