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  1. sidthelefty is offline
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    #1

    Question should i switch to short pips?

    im thinkin abt switchin to short pips ....since im playin penhold now and my game is more flat hitting over the table.....but idk....i block and punch block...and i plan to used inverted on my rpb....im thinking abt getting 729 802-40....any advice? can someone also explain the difference in short pips to inverted thanks...im currently using the 729 5 on my fh....
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

  2. azlan is offline
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    #2
    I assume you want short pips for your FH, and you want an offensive one at that. Well, I don't use pips rubber, but I can safely say that I played against quite a number of players using them. One of the rubbers that I am familiar with is Butterfly Challenger. It offers good control for both defence and offence, and you may even spin some odd balls.
    Differences between inverted and short pips are vast. One of the thing that you must know is that pips only allow a small contact surface with the ball, and therefore more control against sidespins balls, screw balls and chops. But it reduces your ability to spin/attack against heavy chop and spins, especially if you are playing against really good players since they can really inflict serious spins and chops.
    To improve, we must enjoy the game and above all have fun



  3. sidthelefty is offline
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    #3
    oh thanks ...anyone else?
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #4
    hmmm it depends on what you are going for, and what is your goal.

    Most of the players I have met who used pips rubber reach a ceiling pretty quickly. For playing intermediate players and inconsistent players, its great, because they are either not used to having to always adjust to which side of the paddle you use, but their hits are inconsistent so therefore they make a lot of errors. Sometimes, depending on how good the pips player is, I get into trouble because my strokes become unsure and I start making mistakes. However, in the same token, for most people their skills with the pips rubber really only encompasses blocking it back, with very little offensive capabilities. This means that as long as the opponent is used to playing that type of style, or is really consistent, he should have no trouble forcing the pips player to stay with the pips side and block it back continuously until they can get a ball that they can kill. When I am on my game, its pretty hard for the pips player to bring anything that truly I am scared of.

    Therefore if you just play normally for fun and seek to gain an advantage among the intermediate players you face, then yeah switching maybe a good idea, but if you truly want to reach the upper non-professional levels of play, which in my mind is 2000+ rating, as far as the US table tennis rating system goes, I probably would stay away from pips rubber. It just doesn't have the upper level potential as normal rubber has.

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    #5
    but there are some good players who play with pips like he zhi wen aand gao jun....sooo ur kinda confusing me :S
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sidthelefty
    but there are some good players who play with pips like he zhi wen aand gao jun....sooo ur kinda confusing me :S
    I mean thats true, but the chances of reaching that level is pretty low for most of us. And even for both of them, their max potential will still never be as high as players who don't play pips. Your offensive power will simply always be restricted for the pips side of your paddle.

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    #7
    also Liu Guoliang
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #8
    i think u guys are underestimating short pips?
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #9
    Liu GuoLiang did talk about his disadvantages using short pip before. He said that he is no good on rallying,a.k.a his weakness. If you notice his play style, and also other short pip player's play style, it basically a lots different than the inverted rubber players. Especially the FH stroke. Short pip used to be very powerful during the 38mm ball era, but 40mm ball does kill short pip a little due to the ball does not move as fast as before anymore. But the last time I learned about how to play using short pip rubber was like.....20years ago?

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    #10
    oh well if thats the case y have short pips around still?
    if i cud hit the ball hard enough would that conpensate for the ball being bigger?
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #11
    I personally respects those who keeps the diversity of table tennis alive.
    Just buy and try it esp. its a chinese rubber (cheap I assume).
    If its natural to you, just go with the flow brother.

    For me, I changed my BH to long pips because it suits my defensive play naturally.
    One of my friend changed his BH to anti and played a very disturbing blocking game.
    Another one uses Feint AG, a long pips for aggresive play because his BH loop is inconsistent yet his hitting capability is strong.

    You see, one can reach the top with inverted on both wing because it suits their style of play, while another need to struggle harder to reach the top because they simply have a wrong paradigm like "inverted is the winner rubber" while actually they have a great potential using SP in their forehand for example.

    Just do it

    Sorry for the lack of experience with long pips, so I just put my personal opinion here.
    Good luck and God Bless your training.

    Yosua
    GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
    Crossover to Takeover!

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    #12
    thanks Yosua....u ment short pips right?
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #13
    can someone tell me what Liu GuoLiang said abt playin with short pips?
    Blade : Yasaka Ma Lin extra off
    Fh: Rakza 7
    Bh: Rakza 7 Soft

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    #14
    hehe yeah I mean short pips
    GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
    Crossover to Takeover!

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    #15
    Hi guys, I think i know what Scylla & Dici meant. We must understand that the game is developing tremendously. The trainings are harder, the players are much more conditioned, faster and stronger. The techniques are also getting better. All they're saying, players using pips that are really really good are far in between..coz you see, you probably need coaches who are familiar with pips to develop you further. You can hit harder, but other players can to.
    Liu is able to coach players using pips in coz the players that he coaches are world champions quality. He coaches more on tactics than techniques. Like I said earlier, pips doesn't allow the ball to have a full contact with the rubber hence more control receiving spins/sidespins/chop etc. But when Liu was playing, the ball was smaller, and of course lighter. He can inflict higher spins even with pips. Also, in the old days you have Sriver and the likes against pips rubber, but now with development in technology, pips in rubbers are just insane. Some are just brutal, & in the hands of a pro or really good players, it can be devastating.
    Say you work in development section dept for Stiga or Butterfly, as a boss, I would want you to focus MORE on development of pips-in rubbers than pips out rubbers. Why? Coz at the end of the day, I'm a business man and I want to make money, so I will try and develop something that have higher percentage chances for me to make serious money. I would still develop pips out rubbers, but probably not so much. heheheh
    To improve, we must enjoy the game and above all have fun



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    #16
    Great opinion from another angle of view Sir Azlan
    GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
    Crossover to Takeover!

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    #17
    Chung’s Notes: This interview took place after the Qatar Open, and was published in the May and June 2002 issues of Table Tennis World. The reporter asked Liu Guoliang for advice that could help the amateur player. The reporter is Li Kefei.)

    Reporter: If you are facing someone whom you have never played before, how would you find out his weaknesses in the shortest time?

    LGL: First take a look at his racquet and the rubbers he uses. Is it pips-out, inverted or long-pips? Shakehands or penholder, left-handed or right-handed? Keep in mind that your opponent is also not familiar with your style. You should try to play your game, and do the things that you do well; you can then gain the initiative, and can more clearly observe the other’s weakness. If you play passively, by the time you find out about your opponent, you may be well on your way to losing the match.

    Look at your opponent’s style. Every style has its weakness, so there is a basic way to play against every style, and that’s the starting point. Left-handed players in general do not like to be moved from side to side. Every left-hander is afraid of this strategy, so that’s what you should use. Some left-handers do better than others. If you place the ball to his forehand, and he is strong on that side, then he probably would be weaker on the backhand. If his forehand is not particularly strong, but his backhand is very quick with excellent placements, then his backhand is his strength. Let’s look at the right-handed shakehanders. In general, shakehanders are not as good with short balls, especially those placed to the middle and slightly on the forehand side. They are weaker than penholders in this respect. So this is where you want to attack to create openings. In a forehand vs. forehand rally, the usual line of play is crosscourt vs. crosscourt. When you play backhand vs. backhand, if you feel that you can keep it up, then your opponent is relatively weaker on the backhand. If you feel like you are struggling, then you should try to move the ball to the middle, or to his forehand side. Shakehanders are slower with balls to the middle, so you should try to place balls there, then suddenly attack the two sides. Penholders are usually weak with balls that are wide to their backhand, so they are afraid of placements that alternate from forehand to backhand. In general, try to do things that you normally do well, and test your opponents that way.
    To improve, we must enjoy the game and above all have fun



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    #18
    Hi Sidthelefty, here's the interview with Liu, where he admitted his weaknesses. It's the continuation of the above interview.

    R: Our researchers like Dr. Zhang have compiled a lot of statistics on our opponents, and they have come up with analyses of their strengths and weaknesses. They have recommendations on how to return each of their serves, or what strategies to use against them. When you are on the court, do you follow their suggestions?

    LGL: Those analyses are quite accurate, and are in general very good to have. But you cannot simply rely on them. The exact strategy depends on the players. For example, they have very detailed analyses of Waldner’s style, and in general those match our experiences. But Kong plays Waldner very differently than the way I play Waldner. You can almost say we have entirely opposite approaches. Waldner has good variations, and Kong is very "all-round". So in general Kong would try to play a simple game against Waldner. If out of ten balls, 8 of them are very alike, then Kong would definitely win that match. If out of ten balls, 8 of them are different, then Kong is in trouble. But it is different when I play Waldner. Perhaps out of ten balls, all of them will be different. When the styles are closer, the match depends on who executes better, and who has more pronounced specialties. I first match my strength against his strength, and if that does not work, then I have to match my weakness against his weakness. My weaknesses are my overall skills and power, and my rallying abilities. Those are also Waldner’s weaknesses. Sometimes I have to force Waldner to play his weaker game. So every one is a little different. If Kong were to play a rallying game with Wang Liqin, he would be at a disadvantage. But Kong has excellent feel, and his ability to vary tactics is much stronger than Wang. So when he plays Wang, he has to keep varying the shots. If out of 10 balls, 8 of the them are the same, then Kong would be at a disadvantage against Wang.
    To improve, we must enjoy the game and above all have fun



  19. Matt Hetherington is offline
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    #19
    Azlan puts in the research time, nice work buddy I always find playing with short pips, the thinner the sponge the harder it is to get drive on the ball without hitting it quite hard. With a thinner sponge you can play some very short touch shots and give hell to higher float shots or high pushes. If you are looking for a short pips that you can kind of brush drive you need thicker sponge has more spring to it and you can generate more spin. Personally (I don't use short pips in serious matches anymore I use normal rubber) I always had a preference for a thinner sponge but that's because it suits the style that I play when I use short pips. If you can't decide try the middle ground, a short pips with maybe a 1.5mm sponge. At the end of the day start with the norm and try different things and you will find what you like. And if you don't find something you like then switch back Finding the right equipment is all about trying different things until you find something or gain preferences to something you might like, it can be a long and arduous task
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    #20
    Don't forget Tang Peng and Hou Ying Chao (chopper with short pips)..... if you want to just try short pips out friendships 802-40 would be and excellent starter pip. This rubber has good speed and a decent amount of spin. I use short pips on my backhand and 802 was my first short pip and I loved it. You will find though that after you get the hang of the rubber it will not be all that effective because it is still pretty slow compared to other short pips. I now use Butterfly Speedy P.O. and it gives me all that I require. Hope this helps.
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