Can Timo Boll's victory give rest of world belief?

[ajtatosmano2]

Let's not forget, Timo's style is more close-to-table and more aggressive than the typical European style. In fact, Timo can play very smart with spin, ball placement and turning from defense to offense. He reminds me of Ma Lin in shakehand grip.

Timo is truly a TT genius. He has given the rest of the world some hope. But sadly, I don't see his talents in any European player right now.

I think Hugo Calderano has the greatest potential right now. He has power and speed, still lacks tactics. Maybe he is predictable for the other top players, that's why he isn't among the very top western players.
It's one of the biggest issues that european players can't keep up with the speed of the chinese. Look at Lin Gaoyuan: he loops everything back. Even if you outsmart him, during the match his consistent power beats you. Boll was more precise and he had enough speed and power to keep up with Lin. That's why he could play 4-3. The reason for why was it Timo's 4-3 and not Lin's, is the difference in mental strength and experience.

 

[ping fun]

Timo did a great job and defeated two chinese in a row, but i think it can give zhang jike more room to think about his career . as i remember liu guoliang used to give example to zjk to continue his career with more passion . one of them was roger federer . he came and won an important title while he was 35 or 36 . now the example is so close . its in table tennis . timo boll . nothing is impossible

 

[brodolio]

Timo did a great job and defeated two chinese in a row, but i think it can give zhang jike more room to think about his career . as i remember liu guoliang used to give example to zjk to continue his career with more passion . one of them was roger federer . he came and won an important title while he was 35 or 36 . now the example is so close . its in table tennis . timo boll . nothing is impossible

It also means (and I think it's the most important thing) that modern Chinese players are beatable.

Back to Timo : I think we all can agree that he did a fantastic tournament. His condition and preparation were great, he is skilled and he has so much experience -> he is a champion.A champion can beat another champion.

Sometimes some very talented guy could win because the moment is on his side, of course. And Still we are human, bad period/performance happens also to the best ones. But if you are the n.1, there must be a reason

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I am going to quote something that I wrote in the World Cup thread.

First off: congratulations to Dima and Timo.

Second: I do think this is good for the sport of table tennis as a whole.

Third: I think this shows how the moves the Chinese government made—in regards to the organization of the CNT coaching—have been helpful to the sport as a whole even if, this result was inadvertent.

By making decisions that truly hurt the CNT, the Chinese government may have helped make table tennis a little more interesting to fans from all over the world.

I feel for the players of the CNT though. It seems to me, without the amazing coaching they had while Liu Gouliang was the head coach, the overall play of the top players seems to be suffering. Perhaps it is a short term thing and the CNT will right itself. But it is hard to say.

FZD did not seem up to his usual standard in the finals of the Asian Cup where he lost to LGY either.

We can look at these things and think FZD had a bad day and ML and Lin Gaoyuan had bad days against Timo as well.

This may be true. History will tell the full tale in the coming years.

But I remember when Mike Tyson was convinced he was so good he did not need a good coaching staff and trainer and fired Kevin Rooney, only to watch his boxing skills rapidly slip and his corner of yes men unable to coach him out of tight battles. Against Buster Douglass they were so unprepared for Tyson’s opponent to put up a real fight that they did not have the standard tools (Enswell) for keeping the swelling of his eyes down.

It seems to me the Chinese government may have underestimated the importance of the coaching staff in the shifts they made in the recent past.

I feel for the CNT players but hope this is good for the sport in the long run for China to have to rebuild a little and for the rest of the world to see that China is not simply invincible.

And I do think that if Tyson had kept his original corner, he could have gone down as the greatest heavyweight of all times. But his decisions about coaching and his overconfidence about his skills without realizing how important his coaching and training had been caused his downfall.

Let’s hope the example of the CNT coaching staff that was dismissed ultimately helps the whole table tennis world improve their level.


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I think some of what has happened, at least some of this is on the Chinese government for changing the coaching for political reasons.

I think, with Ma Long, not playing great, the previous CNT coaching staff may still have been able to help ML negotiate that into a win. Same for LGY’s match.

I also think ML preparation for the tournament may have been better for his current circumstances.

As I said above in the text I quoted, FZD definitely looked worse in the Asian Cup than I have seen him look since before he was 15.

How much these events have to do with the changes in CNT coaching assignments? Time will tell.


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[Der_Echte]

Timo's win ought to boost sales of his blade series...

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[UpSideDownCarl]

I mentioned Mike Tyson and how his career took a fairly sharp downward turn when he changed his coaching and trainers in the belief he was so good he did not need the coaching that got him to the top.

Well, here are a few examples of hot sports teams with coaching changes that sent the team spiraling downwards.

After the New York Giants (American football) won the Super Bowl in 1991, Giant management felt that some of coach Bill Parcels’ requests/demands were not in the interest of the team. So Parcels left the Giants and the next year, that “great” team finished very close to bottom of the league despite having some of the best players.

Parcels went on to bring the Patriots to a Super Bowl in three years of coaching. The Patriots had been bottom of the league before Parcels came for years. However, he left the Patriots and went to the Jets where he again, brought a team that had been hapless for years, to the AFC Championship Game (one game away from the Super Bowl). However, he left the Jets as well.

The Bears were unstoppable in 1985 when they won the Super Bowl. And, a feat that will probably never be repeated, THEIR DEFENSE out scored their offense for the entire regular season. Well, their defense was so good that all the offense needed to do was stay safe and make one or two simple scores.

The genius behind their defense was a defensive coordinator named Buddy Ryan. Yes...he was crazy. But he was an amazing defensive coach.

Mike Ditka was the head coach of the Bears and he and Buddy Ryan did not get along. At the end of the season, Ditka fired Ryan and that team struggled after that. Ditka was a good coach and the team didn’t go all the way down. But they were never close to the same level again.

When Jerry Jones (owner of the Dallas Cowboys) had a dispute with Jimmy Johnson (head coach of the Dallas Cowboys from 1989-1993*) (*coached Dallas to Super Bowl wins in January 1993 & 1994) Jerry Jones thought the Cowboys were so good he didn’t need Johnson and could coach the team himself. He did hire a head coach. But wanted to be making some of the decisions himself. Well, they didn’t win the next year. And he had to get a good coaching staff in place for the talented players he had to win again.

So, this may not all be down to coaching. But I think what the Chinese government has done to the amazing coaching staff they had has not helped the CNT.

And the CNT really does have so much talent and such amazing players that they could overcome these obstacles. But I cannot help feeling that the change in coaching, and the response to their top players disappointment about those changes has a lot to do with what happened at the World Cup.


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[Der_Echte]

Carl wins the no shyt- Sherlock detailed analysis award... check monsters Sig.

Award ceremony to be held next to the famous trap door in front of crack house no 13.

Carl just showed the importance of legendary coaching.


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[Loopadoop]

How many years do you all expect the German men's national team to dominate the world professional tour ?

 

[yoass]

How many years do you all expect the German men's national team to dominate the world professional tour ?

I don’t. Nothing on Timo and Dima, but I don’t see them eclipsing the CNT.

They are not that young, and the gap behind them seems substantial to me.

The recent wins do not, to me, rekindle the memory of the Swedes halfway the eighties, determined and seemingly destined to dominate. For a while.

 

[Baal]

None (years of Gdrman domination). CNT has so many resources and so many players. There are still structural problems with how European players have to make their living compared to how CNT supports their players and their training. Don't read too much into a single tournament.

(Say, isn't that Miu Hirano over there?)

 

[RidTheKid]

Is Wang Hao the answer? Sure it's early but what are your takes on him as the head coach of CNT?

 

[darucla]

Other coaching examples might include manager Alex Ferguson of Manchester United (Real Football). Since he finally retired for real, after an unparalleled period of success for the team, they haven't been the same. One might say the same about the same team's Matt Busby in an earlier era, or Liverpool's Bill Shankly (the man who said "Football isn't a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that."). (too many "same"s here.)

The difference is that the Chinese table tennis system is designed to produce table tennis players for the nation, whereas in football (real or American), the system is designed to win the big prizes, which is often now done by buying the big players. So while the CNT may suffer some setbacks, it would take some true madness to kill the system which has been so successful, even before the days of LGL's leadership.

 

[rainneverever]

If you are talking about the world ranking, MLwill be ranked #1 this Nov and Dec. From next Jan when the new ranking system starts, ML will no longer be #1. DM will be ranked above ML for sure. DM and FZD both have chance to become the new #1. XX also has chance to go above ML.

I'm still curious about how long Ma will last as n.1

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

If you are talking about the world ranking, MLwill be ranked #1 this Nov and Dec. From next Jan when the new ranking system starts, ML will no longer be #1. DM will be ranked above ML for sure. DM and FZD both have chance to become the new #1. XX also has chance to go above ML.

You may have interpreted that correctly. But I think brodolio was referring to how long, how many years....in total, Ma Long would be able to maintain the level of play that causes him to be the best player in the world CURRENTLY.

For instance, will he still be the most dominant 3 years from now? 5 years from now? 8 years from now?

Dropping out of the top spot in the world rankings for a few months won’t stop him from being the best player in the world. But at what age will his level start to dip.

Wang Liqin was still the best from 2000-2006. Maybe still in 2007.

By 2009 he was definitely no longer able to dominate the same way.

How long will Ma Long’s reign last? And is this the harbinger of things to come?


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[tropical]

Hirano was giving us a hope that the Chinese female domination of table tennis would end. Then we saw she got beaten up badly many times in a row.

Same thing applies to the men, folks. Nah .. LGY is notorious to choke under pressure. ML clearly was not playing well at all and still almost beat Timo.

 

[Baal]

ML will be back.
Soon.

 

[TTHopeful]

It will definately give some confidence and belief. Just look when Gauzy played Ma Long in the bronze match. You could see Simon had 100% belief he could win...

 

[Sali]

Anyway I would really love to see tough fight between top 10 players without beeing 99% sure who is going to win. I hope that Timo wins will inspire other top players to compete with chinese at the same level.

 

[anchorschmidt]

Don't see how people are comparing this to Hirano's breakthrough tournament. Hirano surprised the CNT and they found a way to shut her game down for now, while Boll must be the most analyzed player on the planet by the CNT over the last 15 years. In WTTC 2011 and 2013, ZJK and ML found success in forcing Boll to step around by pinning him on the backhand side. Boll has considerably improved his backhand technique and is taking a step back, which is allowing him to play powerful counters from that side without having to step around. The new ball may also be a factor.

 

[Sali]

Don't see how people are comparing this to Hirano's breakthrough tournament. Hirano surprised the CNT and they found a way to shut her game down for now, while Boll must be the most analyzed player on the planet by the CNT over the last 15 years. In WTTC 2011 and 2013, ZJK and ML found success in forcing Boll to step around by pinning him on the backhand side. Boll has considerably improved his backhand technique and is taking a step back, which is allowing him to play powerful counters from that side without having to step around. The new ball may also be a factor.

I remember LGL saying that he will always be afraid of Timo Boll as long as he is active player. 1 year ago I though he is finished but from few months I see him playing much better, maybe it is also the matter of injuries and now he is in perfect shape...