how comfortable are you with hard (53+) rubber on your backhand?

[TensorBackhand]

I think most club players fall into the comfort zone of 47 degree rubber on backhand. Rubbers like MXP and G1 are extremely popular.

I've recently been experimenting more and more with harder rubbers on backhand. I started first with Big Dipper 38 (51 ESN) on bh. At first I felt it was very hard and not easy to use, but after a while I got to used to it and it feels quite normal to me now.

Recently, I have been testing out Victas Triple and Rhizen ZGR (55d) on bh. Now this feels like a BIG jump up in hardness from the big dipper. It feels relatively normal to handle in topspin to topspin BH rallies. And I feel the extra hardness helps on short pushes and serves. But the biggest issue I have is in looping underspin. I feel like there is far less margin for error, far less ease of use.

What about your experience? How comfortable are you in handling hard rubbers on BH? What do you think are the advantages and tradeoffs of using harder BH rubber?

 

[hclnnkhg]

For BH, another key issue is the weight, and usually harder rubbers are heavier.

 

[SleepyMaster]

I have absolutely no problem with D09c on a backhand, and other hybrids as well. But I have started my training with it, so I guess it’s a matter of technique, and personal preferences. I don’t know how much hardness it is, about 44 in Japan scale.


This is me, multi-balling, plus looping underspin with it, with no problems at all:

But, if you are suited more to softer rubbers, you find it unpleasant, I guess. But for me it’s the opposite - spin and control are amazing.

When I give my racket to a guys that are playing years with t05/t05fx, they always asking me, how I play with this “brick” 😄

 

[NextLevel]

I honestly don't know how to use anything soft. Okay, that's not true, but I played with Big Dipper for a while so I am used to playing with hard rubbers, currently using Golden Tango on both sides, but going to test Dignics 05 for a bit. And I have used D09c before. I just like the way harder rubbers block and take heavy spin.

 

[SleepyMaster]

I honestly don't know how to use anything soft. Okay, that's not true, but I played with Big Dipper for a while so I am used to playing with hard rubbers, currently using Golden Tango on both sides, but going to test Dignics 05 for a bit. And I have used D09c before. I just like the way harder rubbers block and take heavy spin.

Same story here. Started from both sides Rakza Z, then both sides D09c - that’s how I developing the strokes.

Then I have some experiments with D05, D80 on innerforce type of a blades backhand and it’s pretty okay, but I always comes back to D09c.

I don’t need super fast backhand I find, that’s i rather need it stable, and spiny.

 

[NextLevel]

Same story here. Started from both sides Rakza Z, then both sides D09c - that’s how I developing the strokes.

Then I have some experiments with D05, D80 on innerforce type of a blades backhand and it’s pretty okay, but I always comes back to D09c.

I don’t need super fast backhand I find, that’s i rather need it stable, and spiny.

I think it is the easiest way to get better for sure and remain consistent, your opinion might change a bit if you play further back and have to block and punch/smash to rush opponents a bit more. But everyone does different things to win points, and most people want ease of spin/speed on backhand with smaller strokes. I am moving to slower blade for a bit, so I want to see whether slower blade + D05 makes a difference for me.

 

[IB66]

I played with Golden Tango on my BH for about a year +. At that time I really liked how it played and felt, GT has a pretty hard sponge 53/54 degree. I also tried GT PS, for about 2 or 3 sessions, which I think has 50 degree sponge, very bouncy in comparison to GT, didn’t like it and GT went back on!!

Recently I have been playing Glayzer on BH and Glayzer 09C on FH, Before that Rakza Z on BH Rakza Z EH on FH, none of these BH rubbers have as hard a sponge as GT. I think that if I moved back to GT on BH it would be akin to riding a bike, In that you don’t forget how to ride a bike!!, you may be a bit wobbly at first but it’ll soon be natural again!!

So, what did I like about this hard sponge GT? The main thing was I could play with a fast strong wrist action without over hitting to much, spin is high, easier to control, solid blocks.
The feeling of playing with a fast strong wrist action meant that I was able to open up v backspin on my BH wing.

Even tough GT sponge is hard, top-sheet is not over soft, sort of mid hardness. I would put top-sheet of Rakza Z as softer and Glayzer as harder. It’s been a couple of years or more since using GT on BH but from memory that’s where i think GT sits in terms of rubber top-sheet hardness.

And the OVERALL feel of the combined sponge and top-sheet needs to be taken into account.

On Tuesday night I played with my Rakza Z / Rakza Z EH combo, my training partner commented after the 1st warm up rally that I wasn’t using the same set up that I used the previous week (Glayzer BH / G09C FH) the sound was totally different, much much softer. Rakza EH on FH felt so soft in comparison to G09C, as did Rakza Z compared to Glayzer..

Tackiness - GT and Rakza Z pretty similar when new, I think GT retains its tackiness better than RZ, G09C after a couple of months, is now non tacky, after a clean maybe a slight lift of the ball for a split second, it’s so close to a non tacky ESN rather than a tacky ‘hybrid’!!!
GM how’s the D09C tackiness after a month or so?
Lots of these ‘tacky’ hybrids seem to almost or do lose all tackiness.

Andro R53 was way to difficult for me to control on FH and similar on BH, top-sheet is soft, maybe softer feel or very similar to RZ. But R53’s lack of any tackiness is the deal breaker for someone like myself, I’m not good enough!!!! If it had tackiness like GT it would be a totally different kettle of fish!!! Easier for me to control, slower. I think R53 with tacky top-sheet would be pretty similar to RZ EH

So long story short!!
53 degree sponge with grippy top-sheet. UNCOMFORTABLE
53 degree sponge with a good tacky top-sheet COMFORTABLE

 

[latej]

Rakza EH on FH felt so soft in comparison to G09C, as did Rakza Z compared to Glayzer..

OT: Surprising, but valuable info for me. Now I know I'll not try RZ EH, which I actually considered.

 

[latej]

I think most club players fall into the comfort zone of 47 degree rubber on backhand. Rubbers like MXP and G1 are extremely popular.

What about your experience? How comfortable are you in handling hard rubbers on BH? What do you think are the advantages and tradeoffs of using harder BH rubber?

I'm your "typical" 47 degree (or H37) BH guy ;-) When harder - exactly as you say, the looping underspin is less easy.

As usual, it is all personal preference. Be happy with what you use, and be open for situations or developments, which indicate, that you may rather play with something else, and even break Igor's scale of happiness.

What I need from the BH rubber:
1. I need to block. I need a rubber which is not overly spin sensitive, and also not a speed monster. Harder can be better (when other things equal). I prefer 2.0, is more direct.
2. I need to sustain BH exchanges. I need a rubber which is not too slow. E.g. I prefer RX to H3 here. Also, harder doesn't necessarily mean better.
3. I still need to open against back-spin. I need reasonably grippy rubber.
a) I sometimes open lightly, actually often. Harder is contra-productive, very.
b) When I open fully I feel I'm still am not able to utilize anything over H37-H38.

These are somewhat contradictory requirements, and I'm happy with RX, G1 so far. I feel no need to upgrade. But it's good that I know how I could upgrade, should I ever need it. E.g. K3 felt good, and I think RXX would be similar to that. But not now, maybe after 1-2 years.

Btw. I prefer hard rubbers on the FH, say H41. That is a significant difference. But it is what it is. But as I say, it is all just personal. The best BH I played against was with Tenergy 05 FX, who would have guessed. AND, as far as I know, the TTD trouble-maker WHO? (pun intended), also prefers softer!

 

[lodro]

Harder can be better (when other things equal)

I agree, I play hard rubbers on both sides.
This is also supported by the actress who said it to the bishop

 

[blahness]

How hard is D05? I feel it is also quite hard in general, and a lot of ppl use it on the BH.

 

[TensorBackhand]

How hard is D05? I feel it is also quite hard in general, and a lot of ppl use it on the BH.

its 50. so quite a bit softer than the range I'm talking about right now.

 

[blahness]

I've played with Hurricanes and other harder tacky rubbers on BH before and imo it's not worth it. Sure you can hit harder but do you really want to put your body under so much unnecessary strain just for the advantages in short push? Imo at an amateur level short pushes are not as point winning as other techniques like sideswipe, flicks chiquita and fast angled pushes. Even if they manage to loop first, if you make the first good counter you're in the rally and a 50-50 situation, and there's no shame in that.

 

[lodro]

Sure you can hit harder but do you really want to put your body under so much unnecessary strain just for the advantages in short push?

I favor my BH and i like hard rubbers. Where exactly do you feel a strain on the body ??
Short push -long push - topspin flick- blockpush nothing is putting any strain on my body. It can't, I am in my mid seventies, overweight and with some handicaps and it is no problem at all.

 

[blahness]

I favor my BH and i like hard rubbers. Where exactly do you feel a strain on the body ??
Short push -long push - topspin flick- blockpush nothing is putting any strain on my body. It can't, I am in my mid seventies, overweight and with some handicaps and it is no problem at all.

If you try say like few hundred BH loopkills with hard tacky rubber in a night - the strain adds up everywhere...

Of course there's no strain with push, block, counter really.

 

[beeray1]

Idk what it is, but I'm a soft rubber guy on that side and I preach it to players reaching for the pro grade stuff as much as I can. My backhand in open play or when I'm attacking is like my gold quality relative to the rest of my game. I like to think it's pretty dang sharp at least for my level, but I still just love the security and flexibility of playing soft rubber on that side. I'm not even using max - the CMD i'm using is 2.0. Plus I always think back to my boy Kreanga playing 05-fx on that side and it makes it hard for me to think I 'need' more. I've experimented with harder rubbers on that side mildly, like D05, but the only thing that really feels any better or more stable is if I'm playing a very aggressive counter topspin off the bounce or something, and while I do play that ball on occasion I'm no pro and that's such a small percentage of what I'm producing on that wing. Plus, the soft rubber still feels fine executing that shot.

Heck, barely a handful of years ago rubbers that were 45-47 degrees were considered quite hard and only for the high level players. Now people who have 1/2 of the ball quality I do are using hardness well over 50 on both sides and I'm not seeing the benefit for most of them. I've always liked harder rubbers on the forehand, but primarily because of the over the table touch I get and not so much because I hit hard forehands or something.

Not to sound like I'm gatekeeping (it's all preference, experimentation and fun in the end), but I truly do believe that a decent amount of people using the really hard rubbers thinking that they 'need' to are just buying into the thing most of us have bought into for ages - they wanna use what the pros are using and would likely play better with something more modest. I think it's easy to think about what rubber suits us in the context of our very best shots, and not from the perspective of what fits our average quality shots.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I think most club players fall into the comfort zone of 47 degree rubber on backhand. Rubbers like MXP and G1 are extremely popular.

I've recently been experimenting more and more with harder rubbers on backhand. I started first with Big Dipper 38 (51 ESN) on bh. At first I felt it was very hard and not easy to use, but after a while I got to used to it and it feels quite normal to me now.

Recently, I have been testing out Victas Triple and Rhizen ZGR (55d) on bh. Now this feels like a BIG jump up in hardness from the big dipper. It feels relatively normal to handle in topspin to topspin BH rallies. And I feel the extra hardness helps on short pushes and serves. But the biggest issue I have is in looping underspin. I feel like there is far less margin for error, far less ease of use.

What about your experience? How comfortable are you in handling hard rubbers on BH? What do you think are the advantages and tradeoffs of using harder BH rubber?

Not comfortable at all. Tends to go into the net with hard rubber on BH.

 

[Topspinslinger]

Hurricane 3 39d feels so much fun to use. Heavy spin and a lot of control, feels a bit soft after a few training sessions. It is just so much fun

 

[TensorBackhand]

Well I put a few layers of seamoon onto the ZGR to try to soften it up on backhand. I think it did get slightly softer, and maybe it was slightly easier to use, but still quite hard.

Is it just a matter of playing more games and getting used to it? Right now when I play, I think it's kinda in my head a little and my game doesn't flow. I can't quite feel the ball well and I'm never sure whether my shots are short or long or thin or thick. I feel kinda blind.

 

[JJ Ng]

I think most club players fall into the comfort zone of 47 degree rubber on backhand. Rubbers like MXP and G1 are extremely popular.

I've recently been experimenting more and more with harder rubbers on backhand. I started first with Big Dipper 38 (51 ESN) on bh. At first I felt it was very hard and not easy to use, but after a while I got to used to it and it feels quite normal to me now.

Recently, I have been testing out Victas Triple and Rhizen ZGR (55d) on bh. Now this feels like a BIG jump up in hardness from the big dipper. It feels relatively normal to handle in topspin to topspin BH rallies. And I feel the extra hardness helps on short pushes and serves. But the biggest issue I have is in looping underspin. I feel like there is far less margin for error, far less ease of use.

What about your experience? How comfortable are you in handling hard rubbers on BH? What do you think are the advantages and tradeoffs of using harder BH rubber?

When I used to use 5-ply all wood paddle (Tibhar Stratus Power Wood), I really needed G-1 on the backside because I need to generate more power. And I loved G-1; It is very direct. Some catapult but not too much. Wherever I want the ball to go, G-1 will get it done. And G-1 is very very durable. You can generate good push/spin with G-1 too.

But yes with G-1, it is hard to do a backhand loop.

Now I am going to carbon to get more speed on the bat, I am not gravitating toward soft ESN rubber. For example, my favorite combo is H3 neo on FH with Rakza 7 soft on the BH. Obviously Rakza 7 soft is an old ESN rubber so I am surprised that it is suiting my style very well. I also have a Nittaku Acoustic carbon that I have difficulty taming. I used to have T05 fx on the FH and T64 fx on the BH of that blade. It had ZERO feeling. Finally I ripped them off (and transfer them to slower carbon blades), and now FH is H3 neo and BH is Xiom Vega Europe. And I really liked this set up! I was looking at my rubber collection (unopened one) and I was debating which one is the softest. Obviously Xiom Vega Europe has that reputation so I put it on the Acoustic carbon. So far so good! It seems that I have found the perfect combination to tame that blade now. So I am happy!