how comfortable are you with hard (53+) rubber on your backhand?

[JJ Ng]

Hurricane 3 39d feels so much fun to use. Heavy spin and a lot of control, feels a bit soft after a few training sessions. It is just so much fun

Agree. I have gotten H3, H3 neo and H3 Skyline neo all from TT11. I think they only carry 39 degree? I have liked all of them on my forehand side. I think they are too heavy for my backhand side.

And Hurricane ages really well. It seems like the more you play with it, the sponge becomes softer and when you pull it off later to boost it more, it has this springy feel to it. I love that feeling.

So after flirting with a bunch of hybrids and Sanwei Target National, I have decided to go back to H3 neo. I think H3 Skyline is slightly tackier? I am waiting for TT11 to stock the H3 skyline black max sponge before buying again in bulk. I like all the H3 variant products from TT11. I cannot complain.

 

[SleepyMaster]

I think it is the easiest way to get better for sure and remain consistent, your opinion might change a bit if you play further back and have to block and punch/smash to rush opponents a bit more. But everyone does different things to win points, and most people want ease of spin/speed on backhand with smaller strokes. I am moving to slower blade for a bit, so I want to see whether slower blade + D05 makes a difference for me.

Yeah, I have played with D80 on Apolonia backhand (I find it as one of the most controllable blade) and it’s was pretty good, not much power needed to access the spin and speed. So it often helps when pressured far from the table, and you surprised opp by short and spiny shot, when they already think that the point is in their pocket. So this is always a trade hybrid VS classical softer tensor

 

[NextLevel]

I tried D05 on Cybershape and I played like shit. I just don't know how to hold the ball without tacky rubbers anymore lol. The next step migh be to try Golden Tango on a Garaydia ZLC or T5000. I really should by the Mizutani or Harimoto SZLC but I currently do not want to. I think my current setup is fine I should just focus on getting better with it and maximizing my placements and setups and giving some spin variations.
But yes both D09c and Golden Tango I recommend.

 

[JJ Ng]

I tried D05 on Cybershape and I played like shit. I just don't know how to hold the ball without tacky rubbers anymore lol. The next step migh be to try Golden Tango on a Garaydia ZLC or T5000. I really should by the Mizutani or Harimoto SZLC but I currently do not want to. I think my current setup is fine I should just focus on getting better with it and maximizing my placements and setups and giving some spin variations.
But yes both D09c and Golden Tango I recommend.

Nothing wrong with tacky rubber. My forehand loop and serve feel really weird without tacky rubber. The feeling is just wayyyy off.

 

[NextLevel]

Nothing wrong with tacky rubber. My forehand loop and serve feel really weird without tacky rubber. The feeling is just wayyyy off.

It's actually the backhand I really wanted to change though I did change both. But right now, I am going to stick with tacky rubbers and just focus on close to the table counters and consistent attacks. I should be able to develop my spiral looping close to the table with practice.

 

[SleepyMaster]

GM how’s the D09C tackiness after a month or so?

Tack of D09c is barely noticeable even out of the box, it almost didn’t hold the ball at all when it’s new. Some sheets are better in this, some little worse, bit it’s all a question of a milliseconds. So after the month or two it barely holds it, or didn’t hold it at all.

But it’s not classical tacky rubber, it’s a hybrid, so even with that, top sheet maintains a huge amount of grip even after a months of hard using (multi balling, practicing, match play etc) and it lives pretty long, even I have pretty hard loop.
Regular amateur can used it for a year or more, with very slight drop in performance, that they didn’t even notice

 

[blahness]

I tried D05 on Cybershape and I played like shit. I just don't know how to hold the ball without tacky rubbers anymore lol. The next step migh be to try Golden Tango on a Garaydia ZLC or T5000. I really should by the Mizutani or Harimoto SZLC but I currently do not want to. I think my current setup is fine I should just focus on getting better with it and maximizing my placements and setups and giving some spin variations.
But yes both D09c and Golden Tango I recommend.

Was wondering if it's the Joola Golden Tango you're using, and is it the PS version? How long does the performance last typically?

Agree that D05 is a hard beast to tame especially on FH... I can make some ridiculous loops that wow everyone and then miss a ton of easy balls after that (mostly long).

 

[latej]

Heck, barely a handful of years ago rubbers that were 45-47 degrees were considered quite hard and only for the high level players. Now people who have 1/2 of the ball quality I do are using hardness well over 50 on both sides and I'm not seeing the benefit for most of them. I've always liked harder rubbers on the forehand, but primarily because of the over the table touch I get and not so much because I hit hard forehands or something.

OT, but related: I use (harder) H3 on the FH and people sometime complain, that it is hard to estimate how much top-spin is on the ball. They specifically complain to me. Sometimes there is not enough spin (block to net), sometimes too much (block out). I think this "feature" is related to the combination of both H3 (or tackiness), and hardness. So that would be for me 1 advantage of hardness, albeit on the FH side.

I gave my setup to a player, who plays RZ on the FH, and has a bit unorthodox FH technique due to his grip. With my H3 he was able to generate more spin especially as he increased the energy. So, as has been said many times, harder sponge gives back more on faster strokes - but the point is, we are no profis, and are still able to unlock it on the FH. Well, for completeness, that H3, even though H41, is not extra hard, more like ESN 51 (I expected approx. 54-55), but still...

 

[SleepyMaster]

I tried D05 on Cybershape and I played like shit. I just don't know how to hold the ball without tacky rubbers anymore lol. The next step migh be to try Golden Tango on a Garaydia ZLC or T5000. I really should by the Mizutani or Harimoto SZLC but I currently do not want to. I think my current setup is fine I should just focus on getting better with it and maximizing my placements and setups and giving some spin variations.
But yes both D09c and Golden Tango I recommend.

As for my experience D05 takes a lot of time to get used to it, for a few months with a pretty big volume of training, and a closed angle so much, that its not perfectly suited for my wrist (I had a compression fracture of my wrist from boxing). After D05 it takes 15 minutes to get used to D80 for example - its so much more easy to use. Spin and quality of balls from D05 is outstanding but you need to have an outstanding technique and legs, to get maximum from it potential too.

 

[Ghostzen]

K3 on BH for a long time now and very happy with it will have to say. Touch, return and spin all very solid. Blocking and counter topspin.drive and spin topspin is very good. It's not the fastest rubber but there are always trades. ...

 

[Lula]

Easier with the biomechanics with forehand since you use the body more. Backhand more just arm, so find it more difficult with harder rubbers. I think it works if you have the time and can play more from the hip. I remember Kreangea used Tenergy 05 fx on his backhand because it was better in gameplay.

 

[NextLevel]

Was wondering if it's the Joola Golden Tango you're using, and is it the PS version? How long does the performance last typically?

Agree that D05 is a hard beast to tame especially on FH... I can make some ridiculous loops that wow everyone and then miss a ton of easy balls after that (mostly long).

Golden Tango, regular version. The PS version has some non-linear bounciness I have no patience for. It isn't crazy fast so it could easily be used for 4-6 months. My forehand looks worn but it still plays pretty well.

 

[NextLevel]

K3 on BH for a long time now and very happy with it will have to say. Touch, return and spin all very solid. Blocking and counter topspin.drive and spin topspin is very good. It's not the fastest rubber but there are always trades. ...

How long does K3 last for you? Some users complain of a drop in performance after a month. I am wondering whether it is worth trying and sticking to after the drop.

What do you use on forehand as a contrast?

 

[Wrighty67]

How long does K3 last for you? Some users complain of a drop in performance after a month. I am wondering whether it is worth trying and sticking to after the drop.

In case it helps, I used K3 for about 4 months and both sheets are still in good condition after circa 9-10h/week. Both had some marks on FH side from my thumb placement but tops sheet was still good.

 

[NextLevel]

OT, but related: I use (harder) H3 on the FH and people sometime complain, that it is hard to estimate how much top-spin is on the ball. They specifically complain to me. Sometimes there is not enough spin (block to net), sometimes too much (block out). I think this "feature" is related to the combination of both H3 (or tackiness), and hardness. So that would be for me 1 advantage of hardness, albeit on the FH side.

I gave my setup to a player, who plays RZ on the FH, and has a bit unorthodox FH technique due to his grip. With my H3 he was able to generate more spin especially as he increased the energy. So, as has been said many times, harder sponge gives back more on faster strokes - but the point is, we are no profis, and are still able to unlock it on the FH. Well, for completeness, that H3, even though H41, is not extra hard, more like ESN 51 (I expected approx. 54-55), but still...

H3 especially boosted is a special beast, I think the arcs are just unique to it. Sometimes it is low arc with spin, especially off the table, which is not normal for most Euro rubbers.

 

[IB66]

Tack of D09c is barely noticeable even out of the box, it almost didn’t hold the ball at all when it’s new. Some sheets are better in this, some little worse, bit it’s all a question of a milliseconds. So after the month or two it barely holds it, or didn’t hold it at all.

But it’s not classical tacky rubber, it’s a hybrid, so even with that, top sheet maintains a huge amount of grip even after a months of hard using (multi balling, practicing, match play etc) and it lives pretty long, even I have pretty hard loop.
Regular amateur can used it for a year or more, with very slight drop in performance, that they didn’t even notice

The virtual lack of tackiness seems to be a feature of many 'hybrid' rubbers .
It's pretty surprising how such a small amount of tackiness affects the speed!! and makes a rubber easier to control in short game.
I still prefer higher levels of tackiness, I'm almost disappointed if I try a new hybrid rubber that has minimal tackiness!!!
I've just ordered the H version of Jekyll and Hyde, H standing for hybrid!!! Maybe I'm gonna be disappointed!!!!!
Got some Tau 2 coming as well, not gonna be disappointed by Tau 2's tackiness levels, unless Xiom have changed the formula!!!

The original 'Hybrids' were a tacky Chinese top sheet on a springy ESN type sponge, so in my book a Hybrid rubber should have higher levels of tackiness!!!!

 

[SleepyMaster]

The virtual lack of tackiness seems to be a feature of many 'hybrid' rubbers .
It's pretty surprising how such a small amount of tackiness affects the speed!! and makes a rubber easier to control in short game.
I still prefer higher levels of tackiness, I'm almost disappointed if I try a new hybrid rubber that has minimal tackiness!!!
I've just ordered the H version of Jekyll and Hyde, H standing for hybrid!!! Maybe I'm gonna be disappointed!!!!!
Got some Tau 2 coming as well, not gonna be disappointed by Tau 2's tackiness levels, unless Xiom have changed the formula!!!

The original 'Hybrids' were a tacky Chinese top sheet on a springy ESN type sponge, so in my book a Hybrid rubber should have higher levels of tackiness!!!!

Yeah, I know there was a time. But it’s not 2010 anymore, and hybrids now, are much better then they tend to be 10 years ago.
But again, if you like that times and such rubbers - good for you, I don’t mind it 🤙🏻

 

[Migzkulit]

Idk what it is, but I'm a soft rubber guy on that side and I preach it to players reaching for the pro grade stuff as much as I can. My backhand in open play or when I'm attacking is like my gold quality relative to the rest of my game. I like to think it's pretty dang sharp at least for my level, but I still just love the security and flexibility of playing soft rubber on that side. I'm not even using max - the CMD i'm using is 2.0. Plus I always think back to my boy Kreanga playing 05-fx on that side and it makes it hard for me to think I 'need' more. I've experimented with harder rubbers on that side mildly, like D05, but the only thing that really feels any better or more stable is if I'm playing a very aggressive counter topspin off the bounce or something, and while I do play that ball on occasion I'm no pro and that's such a small percentage of what I'm producing on that wing. Plus, the soft rubber still feels fine executing that shot.

Heck, barely a handful of years ago rubbers that were 45-47 degrees were considered quite hard and only for the high level players. Now people who have 1/2 of the ball quality I do are using hardness well over 50 on both sides and I'm not seeing the benefit for most of them. I've always liked harder rubbers on the forehand, but primarily because of the over the table touch I get and not so much because I hit hard forehands or something.

Not to sound like I'm gatekeeping (it's all preference, experimentation and fun in the end), but I truly do believe that a decent amount of people using the really hard rubbers thinking that they 'need' to are just buying into the thing most of us have bought into for ages - they wanna use what the pros are using and would likely play better with something more modest. I think it's easy to think about what rubber suits us in the context of our very best shots, and not from the perspective of what fits our average quality shots.

Preach, should have seen this thread earlier. Trying out R53 on backhand ans I needed to boost it as it was too hard. (Long arms, almost underweight). The balance of the racket is incredibly head heavy and my wrists are dying.

Back to 48 degree rubbers for me, once I deplete my r53 spare.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I tried moving my hard rubbers to a different blade, and I'm actually starting to play much better. It's starting to feel less absurdly hard to me. Maybe the feeling of the blade helped alleviate some issues, or maybe I'm just getting more used to the hardness itself.

 

[JJ Ng]

The virtual lack of tackiness seems to be a feature of many 'hybrid' rubbers .
It's pretty surprising how such a small amount of tackiness affects the speed!! and makes a rubber easier to control in short game.
I still prefer higher levels of tackiness, I'm almost disappointed if I try a new hybrid rubber that has minimal tackiness!!!
I've just ordered the H version of Jekyll and Hyde, H standing for hybrid!!! Maybe I'm gonna be disappointed!!!!!
Got some Tau 2 coming as well, not gonna be disappointed by Tau 2's tackiness levels, unless Xiom have changed the formula!!!

The original 'Hybrids' were a tacky Chinese top sheet on a springy ESN type sponge, so in my book a Hybrid rubber should have higher levels of tackiness!!!!

Yes I have tried K1 and K2. And Sanwei Target National feels a bit hybrid to me as well (compared to H3). I like it tacky tacky. Gone back to H3 neo now.