Is EJing good for improving?

[TensorBackhand]

I know a lot of people say to not EJ and focus on developing skills. But I have found that testing out a variety of rubbers actually enhances your skills. Usually when people test out a new rubber that they aren't used to, they immediately decide "its not right for me" or I even see people say "this rubber is garbage".

I, on the other hand, hate to see a rubber go to waste so I try to play through a rubber until it feels normal to me. I have found that this actually enhances my skill because it forces me to improve any skills or techniques that were lacking. Also it forces you to learn new aspects of the game to play to the rubber's potential.

For example:
I tested out Donic Bluegrip S1 on bh. At first it felt too slow to me, but I realized it had advantages in push and loop with the light tackiness. I would play 10% slower but 15% more quality, and I would win points with more strategy.

I tested Big Dipper on bh and it felt way too hard to me. But I realized I needed to follow through more on my bh loop and it helped improve my technique.

I tested out Triple Double on backhand, and in some ways it felt slower and more dead. But I also noticed that I could generally execute my rallies better with more consistency and control. I trade 10% speed for 15% better execution.

I recently tested Rhyzen ZGR on bh and at first it felt impossibly hard. But recently I've been playing better with it and enjoying it more. It also forces me to execute my strokes cleanly.


So for some of you who want to test rubbers but are afraid it will mess with your game: my advice is to go into it with the right mentality. Don't put all the blame on the rubber and let the rubber tell you where to improve or how to play better.

 

[turbozed]

This is a good way to look at things. Maybe in the short term it'll mess with your consistency, but if your equipment has to be completely fine tuned to a specific preference, then this might also cause problems. Maybe the humidity is high and is affecting your rubber, or some other factor like the ball or table is not to your liking. This might throw you off if you've grooved a technique too narrowly into muscle memory and you get puzzled when a certain stroke produces different ball behavior.

I'm always amazed by players that somehow play well with crappy equipment or random objects. I think these players are more likely to adjust to new equipment and conditions fast since they have a deeper understanding and feel for the game.

 

[ttmonster]

IMO .. its not an Yes / No question .. because it depends ... on your attitude like you rightly pointed out .. if you have the right attitude to focus on identifying your weaknesses and then take the right steps to improve that instead of blaming the equipment or on the other extreme just try to use the equipment as a crutch to improve ... you are going to improve, EJ-ing or not . My experience is in line with what you mentioned .. I don't give up on new stuff quickly and try to adapt to it and it helps develop skills like hand pressure control ... adjustment of timing .. etc.
And I seriously dislike people who try to use equipment as a crutch .. e.g. just put long pips on the backhand because they don't want to learn how to return serve or how to do a backhand stroke and just pretty much jump around trying to hit every ball with pips ... etc.... this works at the lower level to get some cheap rating points but never works in the long run ...

 

[TensorBackhand]

IMO .. its not an Yes / No question .. because it depends ... on your attitude like you rightly pointed out .. if you have the right attitude to focus on identifying your weaknesses and then take the right steps to improve that instead of blaming the equipment or on the other extreme just try to use the equipment as a crutch to improve ... you are going to improve, EJ-ing or not . My experience is in line with what you mentioned .. I don't give up on new stuff quickly and try to adapt to it and it helps develop skills like hand pressure control ... adjustment of timing .. etc.
And I seriously dislike people who try to use equipment as a crutch .. e.g. just put long pips on the backhand because they don't want to learn how to return serve or how to do a backhand stroke and just pretty much jump around trying to hit every ball with pips ... etc.... this works at the lower level to get some cheap rating points but never works in the long run ...

Yes, I know players around the 1400-1500 level that treat LP like a cheat code or drug. When they switch to LP, they instantly get a +200 rating, because nobody at that level is trained to play against LP. The lust for that free 200 points is too much to turn away from.

 

[NextLevel]

IMO .. its not an Yes / No question .. because it depends ... on your attitude like you rightly pointed out .. if you have the right attitude to focus on identifying your weaknesses and then take the right steps to improve that instead of blaming the equipment or on the other extreme just try to use the equipment as a crutch to improve ... you are going to improve, EJ-ing or not . My experience is in line with what you mentioned .. I don't give up on new stuff quickly and try to adapt to it and it helps develop skills like hand pressure control ... adjustment of timing .. etc.
And I seriously dislike people who try to use equipment as a crutch .. e.g. just put long pips on the backhand because they don't want to learn how to return serve or how to do a backhand stroke and just pretty much jump around trying to hit every ball with pips ... etc.... this works at the lower level to get some cheap rating points but never works in the long run ...

LP does work in the long run, I think you are being limited in your perspective if you say that using equipment as a crutch is wrong. In life, one must be rigorously empirical and one may not have time to play every day. Lefties take advantage of their fewer numbers to create problems for opponents. Not that much different with long pips. Do we hate on Nadal and Seemiller for using their off hands to get an advantage? Do we know for sure how much the advantage does or doesn't persist? And are we saying that playing long pips can't expand your understanding of the game?

Ultimately, if someone decides the long pips tradeoffs work for them, that is a good decision.

 

[ttmonster]

LP does work in the long run, I think you are being limited in your perspective if you say that using equipment as a crutch is wrong. In life, one must be rigorously empirical and one may not have time to play every day. Lefties take advantage of their fewer numbers to create problems for opponents. Not that much different with long pips. Do we hate on Nadal and Seemiller for using their off hands to get an advantage? Do we know for sure how much the advantage does or doesn't persist? And are we saying that playing long pips can't expand your understanding of the game?

Ultimately, if someone decides the long pips tradeoffs work for them, that is a good decision.

What I meant NL is just using LP as a crutch and not developing skill . I have seen quite a few cases where either they don't want to learn footwork or backhand or how to read spin or a combination of these things .. and think that just presenting a vertical blade with loose hands will do the trick for them pretty much every time ... I haven't seen such players improve in the long term ... if a player decides that slowing the game down works for them and then proceeds to learn LP skills like chop blocking or punching with LP of course it works !

 

[NextLevel]

What I meant NL is just using LP as a crutch and not developing skill . I have seen quite a few cases where either they don't want to learn footwork or backhand or how to read spin or a combination of these things .. and think that just presenting a vertical blade with loose hands will do the trick for them pretty much every time ... I haven't seen such players improve in the long term ... if a player decides that slowing the game down works for them and then proceeds to learn LP skills like chop blocking or punching with LP of course it works !

So if they can't get better the way you think they should get better and then find LP helps them play better, you think they should not use it? Let me draw an analogy.

My current job plays 20k but has the potential to play 200k if I work harder. By switching to another job, I can earn 50k with close to the same effort I put in now but the max potential of that path is 160k with a lot more work than the 200k job. So if I switch to the 50k job and I am okay with being stuck at 50k given the effort I am putting in, in your view, I am doing something wrong. Seriously?

 

[hclnnkhg]

I prefer to hate Butterfly/DHS users than LP users But at the end of the day people should be allowed to play whatever style with whatever equipment within the rules. If they don't want to improve and rely on equipment, beat them and enjoy your victory!

 

[NextLevel]

I prefer to hate Butterfly/DHS users than LP users But at the end of the day people should be allowed to play whatever style with whatever equipment within the rules. If they don't want to improve and rely on equipment, beat them and enjoy your victory!

💯

 

[SlowPower]

I am happy to see those matches off vs def like boll vs Joo Se-hyuk. In my view this is an enrichment for table tennis and I respect people doing such things with long pips.
I tryed it myself and can say it is not as easy as it looks like. I recommend every hater to try this!

 

[lodro]

YES / NO / MAYBE/ WHO REALLY KNOWS

If one gets a setup that works and sticks with it and only changes rubbers as they get old
or when an obvious improvement can be gained, then it is a yes because there will be a consistency and one can work on technique.

If one buys and starts playing with a setup that is completely wrong and ends up a EJ,
forever trying to find the "ultimate setup", you know, the blade that makes you faster, the rubber that makes you spin better etc. etc etc. then I give it a NO.
This is because one will never settle down and develop good technique and constant confusion will rain.

However, the above mentioned scenes only apply to players with ambition to "go places" in the sport. For the hobby/ club - players it really does not matter at all because we won't "go places", we never climb out of mediocrity but we can still play a decent club game and have fun, comradery , sweaty exercise and keep the gray-mass agitated.

 

[ttmonster]

So if they can't get better the way you think they should get better and then find LP helps them play better, you think they should not use it? Let me draw an analogy.

My current job plays 20k but has the potential to play 200k if I work harder. By switching to another job, I can earn 50k with close to the same effort I put in now but the max potential of that path is 160k with a lot more work than the 200k job. So if I switch to the 50k job and I am okay with being stuck at 50k given the effort I am putting in, in your view, I am doing something wrong. Seriously?

NL , you are making a valid but unrelated point.
I don't think its the correct analogy for what I am trying to say.
The original question was does EJ-ing help you or improve or not ?
My answer was to improve you need a growth mindset irrespective of whether you EJ Or not.
If somebody is happy with easy gains and satisfied with getting stuck at a slightly higher level that is their choice but that does not help one to keep improving .
]Just for the record, I am not a LP hater. Actually i find it easy enough to dismantle LP pretenders thats the reason why I am making the point I am making. Using LP is a fairly common choice in EJ-ing so I used that as a example to illustrate the point I was trying to make.

 

[Doum]

I've decided to play 1 year with the same setup. I have almost 5 months done, and i think i have progressed a lot.

I have a better knowledge of the advantages and disadvantages of my setup, and i focus on my technique.

I plan to play at least a year, maybe 2 with my setup. I have a replacement rubber set, i will change them when my actual rubbers are worn.

 

[NextLevel]

NL , you are making a valid but unrelated point.
I don't think its the correct analogy for what I am trying to say.
The original question was does EJ-ing help you or improve or not ?
My answer was to improve you need a growth mindset irrespective of whether you EJ Or not.
If somebody is happy with easy gains and satisfied with getting stuck at a slightly higher level that is their choice but that does not help one to keep improving .
]Just for the record, I am not a LP hater. Actually i find it easy enough to dismantle LP pretenders thats the reason why I am making the point I am making. Using LP is a fairly common choice in EJ-ing so I used that as a example to illustrate the point I was trying to make.

The thing is that they got better results so they improved their results. The growth mindset part, I get, but I have seen many people who love table tennis and chess and play them for hours every week and still relatively can't play them that well. Whether it is growth mindset or not, I don't know. And to use pips, while you might not loop, you need to at least block or hit. In fact, many people just enjoy using them whether they improve or not, the same way there are some people who would probably play much better if they use the pips as a "crutch" to set up their attacks.
.
You probably meant well but given the amount of dislike pips players get just because people don't want to learn to play against different styles, and since we had a lot of them who helped my game in Philly, I am entirely against the notion that pips are a crutch in any sense that makes it sound like inverted isnt often a crutch as well.

 

[hclnnkhg]

The thing is that they got better results so they improved their results. The growth mindset part, I get, but I have seen many people who love table tennis and chess and play them for hours every week and still relatively can't play them that well. Whether it is growth mindset or not, I don't know. And to use pips, while you might not loop, you need to at least block or hit. In fact, many people just enjoy using them whether they improve or not, the same way there are some people who would probably play much better if they use the pips as a "crutch" to set up their attacks.
.
You probably meant well but given the amount of dislike pips players get just because people don't want to learn to play against different styles, and since we had a lot of them who helped my game in Philly, I am entirely against the notion that pips are a crutch in any sense that makes it sound like inverted isnt often a crutch as well.

Topspin (brought to you by moden inverted rubbers) is definitely a crutch, it makes late hits below the table a lot safer.

 

[NextLevel]

Topspin (brought to you by moden inverted rubbers) is definitely a crutch, it makes late hits below the table a lot safer.

I will go further, some rubbers like Tenergy make it easier to hit heavy topspin with suboptimal technique. And even Imwhen bouncy, the Tenergy push can be incredibly heavy. Since these modern rubbers and fast blades make it easier to topspins with less effort, are they not crutches? Why is hardbat not the true form of table tenniis? Hardbat where you don't get an easy block with just your hand and the paddle rebound?

 

[ttmonster]

okay guys , I did not say “pips is a crutch” i said “some use pips as a crutch” … there is a difference … anything can be used as a crutch …an inverted rubber too … but are you willing to learn the skills to improve with your equipment of choice ? most people just keep doing the same thing even when that is not successful instead of thinking and trying to adapt and putting in the effort … that the barrier to improvement
I agree that because pips play does not look athletic there is a bias that it’s not skill but I don’t agree to that. I would be fool to because i have witnessed a pips player beating a uS national champion two weeks before he became a champion … so let’s not agitated about this as I am not dissing all who use pips just the ones who don’t want to learn / improve

 

[NextLevel]

okay guys , I did not say “pips is a crutch” i said “some use pips a crutch” … there is a difference … anything can be used as a crutch …an inverted rubber too … but are you willing to learn the skills to improve with your equipment is choice ? most people just keep doing the same thing even when that is not successful instead of thinking and trying to adapt and putting in the effort … that the barrier to improvement
I agree that because pips play does not look athletic there is a bias that it’s not skill but I don’t agree to that. I would be fool to because i have witnessed a pips player beating a uS national champion two weeks before he became a champion … so let’s not agitated about this as I am not dissing all who use pips just the ones who don’t want to learn / improve

I hear you. It is like making the bad guy in a movie a Black man. Is it a bad thing, of course not, there are good and bad Blacks everywhere. But then some people will point out the dangers of the stereotypes and history. I usually don't care either way, but the example feeds the stereotype.

 

[ttmonster]

ttmonster said: they don't want to learn how to return serve or how to do a backhand stroke
James Z asked :- Which specific backhand "stroke" are YOU referring to now again ?
=======================
hclnnkhg said: . If they don't want to improve ,
James Z asked :- Improve using what equipment now again ?

I am eagerly waiting for your answers

Thanks

This is a great opportunity for you to improve your patience ... good luck !

 

[ttmonster]

I hear you. It is like making the bad guy in a movie a Black man. Is it a bad thing, of course not, there are good and bad Blacks everywhere. But then some people will point out the dangers of the stereotypes and history. I usually don't care either way, but the example feeds the stereotype.

How about... somebody gave an example that did not feed the stereotype .. but people who are sensitive about the stereotype having perception bias to mistake it as feeding the stereotype .?