Is EJing good for improving?

[ttmonster]

Thanks guys ! This was extremely helpful in refreshing my memory on why I stopped posting in this forum !

 

[NextLevel]

How about... somebody gave an example that did not feed the stereotype .. but people who are sensitive about the stereotype having perception bias to mistake it as feeding the stereotype .?

Yes, in life, such things are all necessary. But if you had made the same example with thin inverted rubbers or dead rubbers, it would have be a non-issue. But making it with pips feeds the common stereotype that many people use pips to hide weaknesses rather than fix their technique. Moreover, unfixable technique is common even in high level players! Many people who can use pips even have decent loops just not at the level they play.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Talking about the OP’s question: some of the consideration of whether changing equipment frequently will be good or bad for your development as a TT player depends on the level of the player and what things they would benefit from working on.

If your technique is decently established changing equipment frequently could cause you to adapt to equipment changes faster. Perhaps there are other benefits like what TensorBH described.

But for someone whose technique, strokes, ability to loop backspin is not stable or developed yet, consistently changing equipment could have that player wondering why one day the ball keeps going into the net and another day, the ball keeps flying long. And that, for that reason a player whose technique is not consistent already may end up getting worse as a result of switching over and over when they have not sorted out ball trajectories (not stroke trajectories) to get the ball to land consistently given a certain incoming spin. That could cause the player to do a lot of funny things that totally mess up their strokes while trying to figure out how to land shots.

So, it would depend.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Also OP rarely post video of himself playing, it is difficult to make an accurate judgement call. I recall OP posting a video of him playing quite a while ago. He could have improved by leaps and bounds by now but without video evidence, it is anyone's guess.

So, back to the question, " Is EJ good for improving? " The ultimate answer to this ultimate question is...
...
,,,
...

It depends.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Also OP rarely post video of himself playing, it is difficult to make an accurate judgement call. I recall OP posting a video of him playing quite a while ago. He could have improved by leaps and bounds by now but without video evidence, it is anyone's guess.

So, back to the question, " Is EJ good for improving? " The ultimate answer to this ultimate question is...
...
,,,
...

It depends.

Maybe this Friday I'll try to take video.

 

[cytivrat]

It all depends on what you mean under EJ. If it is switch to some equipment and playing it for a while it is one thing, if it is about trying something new each week than it is another. Also it depends on whether you work on your technique or you just play occasionally.
If you have your technique settled with certain equipment, then switching equipment will change something in ball trajectory and feeling in all situations which you already used to. So you will get worse in a short term. Then you will adjust a little bit and you will be able to hit properly while having to control some pieces of the stroke with your mind. But it is not really good for result in a match play, when your mind spends its resources on controlling angle, force or whatever is different to usual setup, instead of spending them on estimating incoming spin, speed and thinking about where to place a ball. It becomes noticeable for me at the later stages of tournaments, when mind is not fresh and probably lacks oxygen (especially in small halls in summer). And only then, after playing it for quite long period of time, you will stop controlling it in every shot and you can get better results in a tourmanent play (well, it is in assumption that original setup was suitable for you in general)
I've been playing with TBS for ~12 years, then tried TB Alc for ~2 years, SDC made blade with the same structure as Tb Alc for a year and then another Tb Alc again. All of them are with the same layers structure, playing similarly. But only after playing for about 6 month after each switch I was realizing that I don't think about blade reaction anymore, that I don't blame it in case of misses, that I can actually think in terms where I want to play instead of trying to control every aspect of my strokes. Rubber changes were easier in most cases for me, but still required quite long period of time to get used to and decide whether to stay with it or not.
But if your technique is still not really settled or you change your equipment quite often, and then work on your strokes. Then you can still progress with it. I doubt that it will be faster than if you use one setup that suits your game play/style, but why not. I have an example of a guy who was switching equipment in last 4-5 years quite often (blade and rubber, looks like he tried every off/off+ blade from butterfly and some from other manufacturers and every modern rubber from 5-6 manufacturers), at first almost every week, then giving maybe a month or two to certain blade/rubber combinations. And you know, he is definitely much better than he was 4 years ago and on a very good level for amateur player. I still believe that he could get even better if he settled with one setup 3 years ago. But EJ? EJ. Progress? Progress. I would even say, a very good progress for a person who has no coach and was not coached in a childhood. So yes, it is possible.

 

[Attitude]

I disagree with the statement "it depends". While we test stuff we actually cant improve, at least not in the overall state. We might be able to improve better with newer equipment, and faster but not if we change again in a couple of weeks.

In the best circumstances you change your equipment and all of a sudden some strokes will go easier off your hand. But in the first trainingdays, weeks or maybe even months you will always experience drawbacks, depending on to what rubber or blade you changed to. More often you will lack control due to the fact that simply smth is different. You will sometimes experience shots that wont work the way you are used to. Loops need a different technique and approach, blocks, pushes and even services might need a different angle, movement, speed, timing...

All of these variables will block your ability to improve in the shorter run, and we are talking about EJing, so the run with ones equipment is definitly short.

Even if we talk about pros, they experience the things mentioned above.
BUT these experience are shorter for them simply because they train more and therefore getting used to different gear faster.

Some examples: Lebruns changed from Butterfly to Tibhar and failed quite hard the first contender they went with their new blade and rubbers. But now you cant deny that they improved even further, although this might have happened no matter the equipment.
My newest finding who changed his equipment quite drastically and finally improved is Takuya Jin who played Yasaka equipment and changed to Tibhar.
And dont get this wrong, if a pro changes his equipment he has a team behind him who can help a lot finding out what would suit best, which shortens the duration of getting used to and changes the amount of how much testing is needed.

So yeah especially pros can improve with different gear, but they definitly wont while EJing. And if you scale this down to us folks we definitly wont either.
The only advantage you somewhat get with it, that it is more likely to find equipment that suits you better than anything else, which could help you improve in the looooooonger run, but only if you would stop EJing then. Otherwise you would go back to the problems mentioned above.

In my own experience i usually played around 50-100TTR weaker the moment i changed anything. Even changing back to lac made me play worse the first couple of training sessions.

Now that im back used to it and training a looooot, 1-2 months later i am better than i was ever before. This development would get come to a stop again for at least a certain amount of time if i would change again now.

 

[Egon]

Thanks guys ! This was extremely helpful in refreshing my memory on why I stopped posting in this forum !

Hello! I fully understand and support your idea, voiced in the first answer. Be sure to write. Many people read and can perceive it correctly, but do not want to write themselves for various reasons.
As for long pimples, yes, there are people who, using them, do not want to learn, but want to win. But this is a problem of people and not long pimples as inventory, which actually reveals other facets of this game.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Also OP rarely post video of himself playing, it is difficult to make an accurate judgement call. I recall OP posting a video of him playing quite a while ago. He could have improved by leaps and bounds by now but without video evidence, it is anyone's guess.

So, back to the question, " Is EJ good for improving? " The ultimate answer to this ultimate question is...
...
,,,
...

It depends.

Maybe this Friday I'll try to take video.

MZ (TensorBH) has presented plenty of video. We have an idea that he knows how to spin, his strokes are good, and his play level is fairly decent. He is definitely at a level where it would help him.

Whereas, Gozo, we also know you are using equipment that is notably too fast for you, and your spinning the ball is not at a level where EJing would benefit you.

 

[Egon]

Great topic! The question about the inventory, like any other tool, should begin with the question for what purpose are you going to use it? This is the most important question.
For me today, table tennis is a hobby where I can escape from life's problems, war and information related to it, explosions, sirens and other things, I just enjoy going into the hall and seeing people, talking to them and playing. With this approach, there is nothing wrong with trying different equipment, well, except for Dignics, which cause serious damage to the family budget 😂 .
With people who live table tennis, the situation is exactly the opposite - from certain levels they are shown one non-replaceable inventory and Dignics

 

[turbozed]

I disagree with the statement "it depends". While we test stuff we actually cant improve, at least not in the overall state. We might be able to improve better with newer equipment, and faster but not if we change again in a couple of weeks.

In the best circumstances you change your equipment and all of a sudden some strokes will go easier off your hand. But in the first trainingdays, weeks or maybe even months you will always experience drawbacks, depending on to what rubber or blade you changed to. More often you will lack control due to the fact that simply smth is different. You will sometimes experience shots that wont work the way you are used to. Loops need a different technique and approach, blocks, pushes and even services might need a different angle, movement, speed, timing...

All of these variables will block your ability to improve in the shorter run, and we are talking about EJing, so the run with ones equipment is definitly short.

Even if we talk about pros, they experience the things mentioned above.
BUT these experience are shorter for them simply because they train more and therefore getting used to different gear faster.

Some examples: Lebruns changed from Butterfly to Tibhar and failed quite hard the first contender they went with their new blade and rubbers. But now you cant deny that they improved even further, although this might have happened no matter the equipment.
My newest finding who changed his equipment quite drastically and finally improved is Takuya Jin who played Yasaka equipment and changed to Tibhar.
And dont get this wrong, if a pro changes his equipment he has a team behind him who can help a lot finding out what would suit best, which shortens the duration of getting used to and changes the amount of how much testing is needed.

So yeah especially pros can improve with different gear, but they definitly wont while EJing. And if you scale this down to us folks we definitly wont either.
The only advantage you somewhat get with it, that it is more likely to find equipment that suits you better than anything else, which could help you improve in the looooooonger run, but only if you would stop EJing then. Otherwise you would go back to the problems mentioned above.

In my own experience i usually played around 50-100TTR weaker the moment i changed anything. Even changing back to lac made me play worse the first couple of training sessions.

Now that im back used to it and training a looooot, 1-2 months later i am better than i was ever before. This development would get come to a stop again for at least a certain amount of time if i would change again now.

I think this is likely true for experienced players, but a situation I can think of where switching setups can immediately improve play, and that's because I experienced it myself.

I started with a Nittaku Acoustic with bouncy Fastarc rubbers. The handle was too thin for me and the entire setup just felt unpredictable and unstable. I trained with it for a couple months and, after trying someone's All+ blade with a more comfortable handle and slower rubber, I immediately felt much better control within minutes of using it.

So beginners who've picked an unsuitable setup from the get-go might want to do some testing before settling on something to develop with for the long term. I'm glad I didn't settle on the Acoustic or Sweden Extra and found the Fextra which feels so much better than the other two. There might be a better blade for me out but at my stage of development, I'll worry about it later on.

I did buy a Nittaku Ludeack recently but only because it was on sale for 25% off on TT11 and they're not making any more of them.

 

[Attitude]

I think this is likely true for experienced players, but a situation I can think of where switching setups can immediately improve play, and that's because I experienced it myself.

I started with a Nittaku Acoustic with bouncy Fastarc rubbers. The handle was too thin for me and the entire setup just felt unpredictable and unstable. I trained with it for a couple months and, after trying someone's All+ blade with a more comfortable handle and slower rubber, I immediately felt much better control within minutes of using it.

So beginners who've picked an unsuitable setup from the get-go might want to do some testing before settling on something to develop with for the long term. I'm glad I didn't settle on the Acoustic or Sweden Extra and found the Fextra which feels so much better than the other two. There might be a better blade for me out but at my stage of development, I'll worry about it later on.

I did buy a Nittaku Ludeack recently but only because it was on sale for 25% off on TT11 and they're not making any more of them.

I intentionally said those things according to EJing which would mean that you change equipment for the purpose of changing equipment.
If you are using smth that doesnt suit you, and you change to smth that does a better job at complementing your playing style, ofc you will play better right of the bat. But you wouldnt improve yourself by constantly changing stuff, which is the main reason for EJing.

The advantage of EJing is getting a better understanding of equipment and is a really interesting experience imo, but it simply cripples your chances to actual improve your gameplay

 

[Egon]

I disagree. If ttMonster has a thin skin & cannot take criticism of his bigoted views about pips / anti , there is no love lost if he stops posting.
If you cannot take the heat , get the hell out of the kitchen & not try to make other posters feel guilty


Do not want to learn what exactly now ?
And how long should they keep trying to learn whatever you are suggesting they should be learning & not try something else more (suitable to their style or strengths & weaknesses)?


And what exactly is the "problem" that "these kinds" of people have now again ?

I sometimes play long pimples for fun and don't see it as a problem. But there are people who play with long pimples, who like to create problems from scratch and apparently you are one of them.
Therefore, instead of promoting the idea of using long spikes on this forum, you, on the contrary, make this idea marginal.

 

[ttmonster]

Hello! I fully understand and support your idea, voiced in the first answer. Be sure to write. Many people read and can perceive it correctly, but do not want to write themselves for various reasons.
As for long pimples, yes, there are people who, using them, do not want to learn, but want to win. But this is a problem of people and not long pimples as inventory, which actually reveals other facets of this game.

Thanks for your kind words . Here is the thing ... I clearly showed in my posts that what I said was not biased or a stereotype .. but people with vested interests chose to ignore the semantics so that they can keep beating their own drums ... this reminded me that I have better things to do than to waste my time arguing and convincing individuals who are either card bearing members of russian troll farms or have pathological need to prove they are the wisest person in the room ... you know who you are ..

 

[ander999]

Just ignore the troll's antics. Let him keep talking to himself

 

[TensorBackhand]

MZ (TensorBH) has presented plenty of video. We have an idea that he knows how to spin, his strokes are good, and his play level is fairly decent. He is definitely at a level where it would help him.

Whereas, Gozo, we also know you are using equipment that is notably too fast for you, and your spinning the ball is not at a level where EJing would benefit you.

Actually this is the major revelation Ive been getting.

I used to test a rubber on backhand like MXP and think its so good because its fast and catapulty.

But now Im coming to find that tackier, slower rubbers actually help a lot on bh. The ability to loop underspin in particular is greatly enhanced.

 

[Der_Echte]

EJing is CERTAINLY good for those on the other end of the equipment transactions...

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks guys ! This was extremely helpful in refreshing my memory on why I stopped posting in this forum !

Not at all. I have found that the inability to tolerate disagreement as a form of constructive conflict can have dangerous side effects. Was reminded of it today in another context.

Hello! I fully understand and support your idea, voiced in the first answer. Be sure to write. Many people read and can perceive it correctly, but do not want to write themselves for various reasons.
As for long pimples, yes, there are people who, using them, do not want to learn, but want to win. But this is a problem of people and not long pimples as inventory, which actually reveals other facets of this game.

Of course many people can perceive it as he intended it. But many people can also perceive it as saying that using pips to improve your match results because you don't want to loop is a form of laziness. I have seen people say this about USATT 1800 level pips players, which technically are not the kinds of players that ttmonster is talking about. But I have also found that it takes being about USATT 1200‐1400 with decent spin for pips to make a serious difference. And to me, if you can play at a 1400 level with pips or any other non-looping inverted surface, it takes some work and touch to block and hit the ball, it is usually people who just don't like the fact that the opponent has made this choice that call the pips player lazy or not having the right mindset because the game is not athletic and the gains are sometimes just a matter of blocking touch. But blocking touch is a skill for sure as is hitting touch.

And also, those players tend to donate me a lot of rating points since I know how to beat them so I need to defend their existence lol.😜

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Whereas, Gozo, we also know you are using equipment that is notably too fast for you, and your spinning the ball is not at a level where EJing would benefit you.

Oh Shucks Carl!
I am over EJ'ing, I have declared my stance many times. I am a faithful person. I don't go fooling around with this or that rubber / blade anymore. Just like the French, I have found my mayo and will only eat my fries with mayo. So, no worries Carl. My EJing days are over.

As for the spin effect you have inspired me with some new material. Here goes, hope folks here like my new material.

A certain Texan walks into Panda Xpress in NY Chinatown. He said, " Gimme a cheeseburger with soda, pls ". Mr Wong, the manager looks up in disbelief and politely told the Texan, this is a Chinese take-away store. We do not serve cheeseburger here. In Mr Wong's mind, he thinks, what could go Wong? Right?

However, the Texan threw a hissy fit stating, this is Mehrica! Land of White folks and White folks eat white food. I demand my cheeseburger. You must serve me white folk's food. I ain't no eat no Kung Pao Chicken nor General Tsao's whatcamacallit etc food. I only want mah cheeseburger.

It seems that there are those who only want to eat cheeseburgers and nothing else. Cheeseburger reign supreme.

BTW: where are TBH / MZ's vid? I only recalled watching one vid of his and it was a long time ago.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Oh Shucks Carl!
I am over EJ'ing, I have declared my stance many times. I am a faithful person. I don't go fooling around with this or that rubber / blade anymore. Just like the French, I have found my mayo and will only eat my fries with mayo. So, no worries Carl. My EJing days are over.

As for the spin effect you have inspired me with some new material. Here goes, hope folks here like my new material.

A certain Texan walks into Panda Xpress in NY Chinatown. He said, " Gimme a cheeseburger with soda, pls ". Mr Wong, the manager looks up in disbelief and politely told the Texan, this is a Chinese take-away store. We do not serve cheeseburger here. In Mr Wong's mind, he thinks, what could go Wong? Right?

However, the Texan threw a hissy fit stating, this is Mehrica! Land of White folks and White folks eat white food. I demand my cheeseburger. You must serve me white folk's food. I ain't no eat no Kung Pao Chicken nor General Tsao's whatcamacallit etc food. I only want mah cheeseburger.

It seems that there are those who only want to eat cheeseburgers and nothing else. Cheeseburger reign supreme.

BTW: where are TBH / MZ's vid? I only recalled watching one vid of his and it was a long time ago.

He has posted many. Match play with multiple different people. Look for his threads and some of them are threads about play and improving.

Here. This thread has a match:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/mz-match-video-more-opening-up.27749/