LP tutorial channel

[blahness]

I've been recently bingeing all the videos from this channel because there are so few long pips tutorials out there, much less penhold long pips. I think the TPB chopblock is really not intuitive lol.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

The way I see it, the tpbh chop block is more in line with the way your arm wants to move especially when compared to a regular tpbh punch or drive. Assuming right handed, tpbh attacking needs to guide the ball towards your rh side, but the upper arm and wrist for tpbh is manipulated so that you cannot swing as efficiently or as comfortably as sh or rpb, yet with tpbh chop block your racket and arm is moving away from your shoulder rather than towards it

 

[blahness]

The way I see it, the tpbh chop block is more in line with the way your arm wants to move especially when compared to a regular tpbh punch or drive. Assuming right handed, tpbh attacking needs to guide the ball towards your rh side, but the upper arm and wrist for tpbh is manipulated so that you cannot swing as efficiently or as comfortably as sh or rpb, yet with tpbh chop block your racket and arm is moving away from your shoulder rather than towards it

Now that I played a bit with it, tpb inverted has a really big problem in terms of closing the racket angle because the forearm is already too supinated at the beginning, which is also why the swing is unnatural. I think with pips it alleviates the problem somewhat because you can hit with a much more comfortable open-ish angle.

I think my biggest problem is my positioning. Right now my ready position is way too much to the left for good LH play, I should place myself more in the middle to reduce the amount of reach I need for TPB.

Funnily enough I think this also opens up my right hand BH chiquita against FH short balls because now the distance ain't that great anymore.

 

[ejprinz]

I have switched to Long Pips after the USA June Nationals (Shakehand, not Penhold). I'll be a "modern defender". I started with this YouTube series in the "TT - Defender" channel. IMHO Markus is explaining the basic techniques really well (in German - the auto-translation to English is not too bad). Also he has some game analysis on his channel.

Basic Vocabulary:

Noppen: Pips/Pimples
Noppen aussen: pips out (long, medium, or short pips)
Noppen innen: inverted rubber
Druckschupf: "Pressure Push" - use against underspin
Hackblock or Abstechen: "Glide Block or Hacking Block" - use against topspin
Nopspin: Topspin with the long pips. (with sponge it does have some spin)
Seitwischer: "side swiper" - bend the long pips sideways while hitting, get some spin
Treibschlag: "drive hit" - emergency hit when not standing correctly.

He is playing with OX (I am playing with 1mm sponge).

Also this video by Sebastian Sauer has similar explanations. Again English translation works well, thanks to AI/ML at Google. The Ti Long club channel also has several long pips videos, also YangYang TT and PechPong.

I did try 6 different long pips and to 0th degree they play similarly for me (except OX vs. 1mm sponge makes a big difference). Since I played long pips for the last 2 months the folks I play with got much better in playing against long pips, and I got a much better feeling for the ball as some of the techniques have to be done with no tension.

I am seeing that traditional defenders tend to loose at the highest levels but when they counter high balls with topspins and use good long pips techniques at the table they can hang in there.

 

[blahness]

I have switched to Long Pips after the USA June Nationals. I'll be a "modern defender". I started with this YouTube series in the "TT - Defender" channel. IMHO Markus is explaining the basic techniques really well (in German - the auto-translation to English is not too bad). Also he has some game analysis on his channel.

Basic Vocabulary:

Noppen: Pips/Pimples
Noppen aussen: pips out (long, medium, or short pips)
Noppen innen: inverted rubber
Druckschupf: "Pressure Push" - use against underspin
Hackblock or Abstechen: "Glide Block or Hacking Block" - use against topspin
Nopspin: Topspin with the long pips. (with sponge it does have some spin)
Seitwischer: "side swiper" - bend the long pips sideways while hitting, get some spin
Treibschlag: "drive hit" - emergency hit when not standing correctly.

He is playing with OX (I am playing with 1mm sponge).

Also this video by Sebastian Sauer has similar explanations. Again English translation works well, thanks to AI/ML at Google. The Ti Long club channel also has several long pips videos, also YangYang TT and PechPong.

I did try 6 different long pips and to 0th degree they play similarly for me (except OX vs. 1mm sponge makes a big difference). Since I played long pips for the last 2 months the folks I play with got much better in playing against long pips, and I got a much better feeling for the ball as some of the techniques have to be done with no tension.

I am seeing that traditional defenders tend to loose at the highest levels but when they counter high balls with topspins and use good long pips techniques at the table they can hang in there.

What is the main difference between OX and sponge LP in your experience?

 

[ejprinz]

I played short pips backhand (2+mm sponge) for 2 years, then inverted, then long pips (the last 8 weeks). I also have a medium pips rubber for comparison.
What is happening is that the sponge allows the ball to sink in a little which provides some spin. So with the OX rubber I have no grip on the ball and nopspin (top spin on pips) is more difficult. With a 2mm sponge on short pips, the rubber plays almost like inverted (the modern ones like Nittaku Moristo SP or Yinhe Uranus Pro medium sponge). While you can't do a backhand topspin with a closed blade like with a gippy inverted rubber, you can still get some spin but less to no spin inversion (which requires no grip like anti-spin).
So with long pips with no sponge, spin inversion is larger but getting grip for nopspin or chop is hard. I don't like the feeling (like hardbat). With 0.8mm or 1mm sponge, I feel I have a little grip and the rubber plays closer to medium or short pips.
Also note that a 1mm sponge is about 20g lighter than an inverted rubber with max sponge (50g / sheet). OX is even lighter, maybe another 20g (and harder to glue).
I haven't tried "special" long pips with a purpose as described in https://ttdd.eu/ where they have a story for each rubber. If you want to try various options a cost-effective way is:

• Yinhe Uranus Pro 2mm medium sponge red short pips (the soft sponge plays very different so don't use it unless you want more sensitivity but less control)
• Dawei 388C-1 Medium Pips, 1.3mm sponge
• Dawei 388D-1 0.8mm or 1mm sponge long pips
• Dawei 388D-1 OX sponge long pips

They are about $12/sheet on AliExpress/GHStore or some other store.

For the long pips I also tried the Victas Curl P3V, Neottec Tokkan (from TT11), Sword Venom Long Pips 1mm Sponge, Sword Venom Long Pips OX, Yinhe Qing 0.7mm sponge. They are more like $20-$30/sheet. $12 RITC 729 755 Mystery III LP Red, 1.0mm, H38 is on order. They are all pretty close as far as I am concerned if they have a 0.8-1mm sponge. There are differences but not big enough to matter for me right now.
So for me there is a tradeoff in TT rubbers within the legal choices. I get more degrees of freedom having a 1mm sponge long pips backhand with some added cost (2x strokes when twiddling, loss of hard topspin on backhand without twiddling, but good control on backhand, easy to return serves). I think I can do better than with two wing looping with this setup. Also I really like defending.
Also I tried 5 different blades, for now & tournaments I use the slowest I have (Victas Swat, 1150Hz). I can play all the way to the 1400Hz Sanwei Fextra or 1350Hz Yinhe Pro 05 but not in a tournament, they are too fast right now.
Also getting the technique took me 8 weeks, 2 hours/day machine & playing. This is a big investment especially if twiddling is the goal like Ni Xia Lian.

 

[blahness]

I played short pips backhand (2+mm sponge) for 2 years, then inverted, then long pips (the last 8 weeks). I also have a medium pips rubber for comparison.
What is happening is that the sponge allows the ball to sink in a little which provides some spin. So with the OX rubber I have no grip on the ball and nopspin (top spin on pips) is more difficult. With a 2mm sponge on short pips, the rubber plays almost like inverted (the modern ones like Nittaku Moristo SP or Yinhe Uranus Pro medium sponge). While you can't do a backhand topspin with a closed blade like with a gippy inverted rubber, you can still get some spin but less to no spin inversion (which requires no grip like anti-spin).
So with long pips with no sponge, spin inversion is larger but getting grip for nopspin or chop is hard. I don't like the feeling (like hardbat). With 0.8mm or 1mm sponge, I feel I have a little grip and the rubber plays closer to medium or shirt pips.
Also note that a 1mm sponge is about 20g lighter than an inverted rubber with max sponge (50g / sheet). OX is even lighter, maybe another 20g (and harder to glue).
I haven't tried "special" long pips with a purpose as described in https://ttdd.eu/ where they have a story for each rubber. If you want to try various options a cost-effective way is:

• Yinhe Uranus Pro 2mm medium sponge red short pips (the soft sponge plays very different so don't use it unless you want more sensitivity but less control)
• Dawei 388C-1 Medium Pips, 1.3mm sponge
• Dawei 388D-1 0.8mm or 1mm sponge long pips
• Dawei 388D-1 OX sponge long pips

They are about $12/sheet on AliExpress/GHStore or some other store.

For the long pips I also tried the Victas Curl P3V, Neottec Tokkan (from TT11), Sword Venom Long Pips 1mm Sponge, Sword Venom Long Pips OX, Yinhe Qing 0.7mm sponge. They are more like $20-$30/sheet. $12 RITC 729 755 Mystery III LP Red, 1.0mm, H38 is on order. They are all pretty close as far as I am concerned if they have a 0.8-1mm sponge. There are differences but not big enough to matter for me right now.
So for me there is a tradeoff in TT rubbers within the legal choices. I get more degrees of freedom having a 1mm sponge long pips backhand with some added cost (2x strokes when twiddling, loss of hard topspin on backhand without twiddling, but good control on backhand, easy to return serves). I think I can do better than with two wing looping with this setup. Also I really like defending.
Also I tried 5 different blades, for now & tournaments I use the slowest I have (Victas Swat, 1150Hz). I can play all the way to the 1400Hz Sanwei Fextra or 1350Hz Yinhe Pro 05 but not in a tournament, they are too fast right now.
Also getting the technique took me 8 weeks, 2 hours/day machine & playing. This is a big investment especially if twiddling is the goal like Ni Xia Lian.

Thanks - this was helpful! I'm playing with 388D-1 OX at the moment with the Harimoto ALC blade, and am planning to get a 1.6mm Spectol S1 for left hand RPB side. For me I don't plan to be too passive with the LPs, I will target to loop all long serves with my right hand inverted side, attack short balls with LPs or my BH chiquita whichever looks easier. I can probably also attempt to drop short or sideswipe some of the long serves as a variation.

 

[damszelfly]

Just a fun fact - if somebody want to play long pips almost like OX, but with sponge, Yinhe Qing has a "0.5m soft" sponge option. I ordered one, and the whole rubber just came at 19.8g uncut for me, and I don't need to bother how to glue a spongeless topsheet.

What is happening is that the sponge allows the ball to sink in a little which provides some spin. So with the OX rubber I have no grip on the ball and nopspin (top spin on pips) is more difficult. With a 2mm sponge on short pips, the rubber plays almost like inverted (the modern ones like Nittaku Moristo SP or Yinhe Uranus Pro medium sponge). While you can't do a backhand topspin with a closed blade like with a gippy inverted rubber, you can still get some spin but less to no spin inversion (which requires no grip like anti-spin).

Pip bending is a serious thing even on short pips - I am using Yinhe Uranus Pro, and as you say, closed blade topspins don't work, as the pips throw down the ball so both the topspin effect gets reduced, and the ball usually goes into the net. So I need to be careful to count on this effect even more, when I already receive a ball with heavy topspin.