This user has no status.
Returning to table tennis, lots of change! Did I buy the wrong blade and rubbers?
- Thread starter Crewdy
- Start date
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Have you played a Mazunov?
I have two and both are around 1500hz and much much faster than my inner (and outer) ALC blades (also both 98-100g)
says
Spin and more spin.
says
Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
The truth of the matter is, you could listen to half the group and keep using what you are using and just train till you get used to it. Or you could slow down the setup and put that one on the shelf for a few months. Either approach will work. Which one is better for you? I am going to say: you get to decide which one you would prefer to do.
If you chose to slow things down for a little while here are a few suggestions:
Blades:
1) Butterfly Primorac Off- : (all wood, 5 ply).
2) Butterfly Petr Korbel : (all wood, 5 ply) same plies as above but a little faster, either this or #1 will be a lot like your Innerforce ALC but without the composite (ALC: Arylate + Carbon) layer.
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood : (all wood, 5 ply) a lot like the Korbel but less expensive and more easily broken.
4) Avalox P500 : (all wood, 5 ply) the above blades have a Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba construction which makes them have a soft feeling; this blade is Koto-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Koto. Koto as the top wood ply makes the surface harder. Spruce under the Koto has a really nice feel and makes it springy and responsive. If you want a blade with slightly harder feel for crisper shots, this is a great blade.
There are dozens of other blades that I could add to this list but, the first three will have a softer feel and they will all feel similar and similar to the Innerforce ALC in some ways, but not as fast. The Avalox P500 will be in the same basic speed range as the first three but will have a different feel. Any of them are good choices. So would a dozen other blades like the Xiom Offensive S.
Rubbers: you may as well start with something simple. Lazer recommended Yasaka Rakza 7. That would be a good choice. So would Xiom Vega Pro or Xiom Vega Europe (pro is a little harder, Europe is a little softer). Rakza 7 or either Vega rubber would help you get used to the newer kind of rubbers while allowing you to have more control in your shot making. So:
Rubbers:
1) Yasaka Rakza 7
2) Xiom Vega Pro or Europe
Again, if you just use what you have and do some training for a few weeks, you will get used to what you have. If you got a setup like: Korbel + R7 + R7 (or put any of the blades above with any of the rubbers, and you could do R7 on one side and Vega Pro or Europe on the other so you get to test both), you may get used to things a little sooner and a little more gracefully.
There are tons of other blades and rubbers I could have mentioned. But the tendency is to have too many options and then to not be able to choose. So.....I gave you a small number of options. Any of the other options mentioned in the thread would likely be fine as well.
PS: any chance you can film and post footage of your current standard of play? It may actually help people give a more specific answer to questions you have.
If you chose to slow things down for a little while here are a few suggestions:
Blades:
1) Butterfly Primorac Off- : (all wood, 5 ply).
2) Butterfly Petr Korbel : (all wood, 5 ply) same plies as above but a little faster, either this or #1 will be a lot like your Innerforce ALC but without the composite (ALC: Arylate + Carbon) layer.
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood : (all wood, 5 ply) a lot like the Korbel but less expensive and more easily broken.
4) Avalox P500 : (all wood, 5 ply) the above blades have a Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba construction which makes them have a soft feeling; this blade is Koto-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Koto. Koto as the top wood ply makes the surface harder. Spruce under the Koto has a really nice feel and makes it springy and responsive. If you want a blade with slightly harder feel for crisper shots, this is a great blade.
There are dozens of other blades that I could add to this list but, the first three will have a softer feel and they will all feel similar and similar to the Innerforce ALC in some ways, but not as fast. The Avalox P500 will be in the same basic speed range as the first three but will have a different feel. Any of them are good choices. So would a dozen other blades like the Xiom Offensive S.
Rubbers: you may as well start with something simple. Lazer recommended Yasaka Rakza 7. That would be a good choice. So would Xiom Vega Pro or Xiom Vega Europe (pro is a little harder, Europe is a little softer). Rakza 7 or either Vega rubber would help you get used to the newer kind of rubbers while allowing you to have more control in your shot making. So:
Rubbers:
1) Yasaka Rakza 7
2) Xiom Vega Pro or Europe
Again, if you just use what you have and do some training for a few weeks, you will get used to what you have. If you got a setup like: Korbel + R7 + R7 (or put any of the blades above with any of the rubbers, and you could do R7 on one side and Vega Pro or Europe on the other so you get to test both), you may get used to things a little sooner and a little more gracefully.
There are tons of other blades and rubbers I could have mentioned. But the tendency is to have too many options and then to not be able to choose. So.....I gave you a small number of options. Any of the other options mentioned in the thread would likely be fine as well.
PS: any chance you can film and post footage of your current standard of play? It may actually help people give a more specific answer to questions you have.
Hi there! Not got a set up yet! Hopefully when i have worked out what feels good and experimented a bit. I can get him something suitable! Good job I realised how quick the new rubbers are first....
Thank you for the suggestions. There are so many different rubbers and blades its daunting! Its a gamble ordering online from reviews and not being able to try it out first.The truth of the matter is, you could listen to half the group and keep using what you are using and just train till you get used to it. Or you could slow down the setup and put that one on the shelf for a few months. Either approach will work. Which one is better for you? I am going to say: you get to decide which one you would prefer to do.
If you chose to slow things down for a little while here are a few suggestions:
Blades:
1) Butterfly Primorac Off- : (all wood, 5 ply).
2) Butterfly Petr Korbel : (all wood, 5 ply) same plies as above but a little faster, either this or #1 will be a lot like your Innerforce ALC but without the composite (ALC: Arylate + Carbon) layer.
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood : (all wood, 5 ply) a lot like the Korbel but less expensive and more easily broken.
4) Avalox P500 : (all wood, 5 ply) the above blades have a Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba construction which makes them have a soft feeling; this blade is Koto-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Koto. Koto as the top wood ply makes the surface harder. Spruce under the Koto has a really nice feel and makes it springy and responsive. If you want a blade with slightly harder feel for crisper shots, this is a great blade.
There are dozens of other blades that I could add to this list but, the first three will have a softer feel and they will all feel similar and similar to the Innerforce ALC in some ways, but not as fast. The Avalox P500 will be in the same basic speed range as the first three but will have a different feel. Any of them are good choices. So would a dozen other blades like the Xiom Offensive S.
Rubbers: you may as well start with something simple. Lazer recommended Yasaka Rakza 7. That would be a good choice. So would Xiom Vega Pro or Xiom Vega Europe (pro is a little harder, Europe is a little softer). Rakza 7 or either Vega rubber would help you get used to the newer kind of rubbers while allowing you to have more control in your shot making. So:
Rubbers:
1) Yasaka Rakza 7
2) Xiom Vega Pro or Europe
Again, if you just use what you have and do some training for a few weeks, you will get used to what you have. If you got a setup like: Korbel + R7 + R7 (or put any of the blades above with any of the rubbers, and you could do R7 on one side and Vega Pro or Europe on the other so you get to test both), you may get used to things a little sooner and a little more gracefully.
There are tons of other blades and rubbers I could have mentioned. But the tendency is to have too many options and then to not be able to choose. So.....I gave you a small number of options. Any of the other options mentioned in the thread would likely be fine as well.
PS: any chance you can film and post footage of your current standard of play? It may actually help people give a more specific answer to questions you have.
So on the rubber speeds from slowest to fastest,
Hurricane 3, Rakza 7, Glayzer 09C
Hurricane being the tackiest? But Rakza 7 closest to the feel of modern day rubbers?
I don't mind experimenting with a few rubbers especially something like the Hurricane 3 as its relatively cheap! But the Rakza 7 is nearly the same price as the Glayzer.
Hurricane 3, Rakza 7, Glayzer 09C
Hurricane being the tackiest? But Rakza 7 closest to the feel of modern day rubbers?
I don't mind experimenting with a few rubbers especially something like the Hurricane 3 as its relatively cheap! But the Rakza 7 is nearly the same price as the Glayzer.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Rakza 7 is a lot bouncier than G09c
says
Spin and more spin.
says
Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
H3 is a very different kind of rubber than the others. If you have not used hard Chinese Tacky rubbers before, it may take you a long time to get used to them (2-6 months) before you adjust your technique to how you have to use them since how you use them is very different than the old or the new European or Japanese rubbers. If you are willing to take that time and go backwards even further, or to buy and put that on the shelf too if it does not work for you....then nothing wrong with trying it.
But it is worth being aware of the potential of how big a change it is. If you played as a kid with it....if you had ever used it extensively in the past, it might be fine. It still might be fine. But I know plenty of players, lower level and higher level who had a hard time adjusting when going from Euro/Japanese rubbers to something like H3. I think the adjustment the other way is not as hard but it would still be an adjustment.
Just more info for you to mull over.
Also, if you are going to try H3, you may try it first on the Innerforce ALC blade rather than on something slower.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
You might like a slower rubber like Pimplepark Epos on forehand to gain more control or perhaps a Palio AK47 Yellow that isn't that grippy with more focus on control, and it's linear...
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
In fact I did play with a K series Mazunov, it's extremely fast and heavy (>100g) for a 5-ply
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
I grew up using Chinese rubber, Friendship and Globe 999. I guess I am used to it.
Hurricane is not terribly popular in my club here in N. America. the club coach almost only sells Butterfly products now.
That said, yeah, I guess don't touch hurricane just yet.
Rakza 7 has more catapult effect than Glazyer 09c. Glayzer 09c and Dignics 09c is Butterfly's attempt to come up with hybrid rubber to go after market, meaning people want the tackiness of hurricane but also the catapult effect of a tensor rubber.
Quite frank with you, I agree with @UpSideDownCarl
Let me simply his suggestion:
a) get Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
b) don't touch hurricane
c) get Xiom Vega Europe max sponge for the forehand.
d) get Xiom Vega Europe 2.00mm sponge for the backhand.
You can thank me and Carl later.
says
Spin to win!
says
Spin to win!
Well-Known Member
As hypocritical as this is (because I think you’ve pretty much got all sides of the arguments covered with the different responses, and I don’t think much more can be added), I’m going to wade in with my opinion as well 😂
Firstly, there is no “wrong” answer here. All of the answers you’ve been given would be fine.
However, just a few things to consider.
1. A very short video of your playing level would really help with the advice.
There are countless comments on this in the forum, but I just want to reiterate that you will likely look MUCH worse than you feel you are, and that’s very common for people who are filling themselves.
Also, we are so used to watching the pro videos, that it will look incredibly slow, but it’s the same for everyone.
There is a video safe thread (so you don’t get unsolicited comments from random people), or you can message people directly with your videos so it’s not public viewing.
2. Where do you play (country?) Are you likely to seek out coaching at all?
3. Enjoying the sport is number 1 on the list when you are starting out (or re starting).
However…. If you’ve already spend some $$$, it comes down to your financial situation as to whether you can/should buy a new set up that is more appropriate to your current level.
If you have plenty of disposable income, my gut feeling would be to change your blade and rubbers (but that’s a blind comment without seeing you play).
With all of that being said, I’ll also point out what I did when I came back to the sport.
I had around a 10 year break, and when I came back, I used my old Schlarger Carbon blade with new Tenergy 05 rubbers.
In plain English, that’s like giving a newly qualified driver a rocket ship to control.
It was crazy fast, and uncontrollable for me. But I stuck with it for a while, and every time I needed to change equipment, I just got gradually slower.
That’s a long comment for “either is fine” 😂😂
Firstly, there is no “wrong” answer here. All of the answers you’ve been given would be fine.
However, just a few things to consider.
1. A very short video of your playing level would really help with the advice.
There are countless comments on this in the forum, but I just want to reiterate that you will likely look MUCH worse than you feel you are, and that’s very common for people who are filling themselves.
Also, we are so used to watching the pro videos, that it will look incredibly slow, but it’s the same for everyone.
There is a video safe thread (so you don’t get unsolicited comments from random people), or you can message people directly with your videos so it’s not public viewing.
2. Where do you play (country?) Are you likely to seek out coaching at all?
3. Enjoying the sport is number 1 on the list when you are starting out (or re starting).
However…. If you’ve already spend some $$$, it comes down to your financial situation as to whether you can/should buy a new set up that is more appropriate to your current level.
If you have plenty of disposable income, my gut feeling would be to change your blade and rubbers (but that’s a blind comment without seeing you play).
With all of that being said, I’ll also point out what I did when I came back to the sport.
I had around a 10 year break, and when I came back, I used my old Schlarger Carbon blade with new Tenergy 05 rubbers.
In plain English, that’s like giving a newly qualified driver a rocket ship to control.
It was crazy fast, and uncontrollable for me. But I stuck with it for a while, and every time I needed to change equipment, I just got gradually slower.
That’s a long comment for “either is fine” 😂😂
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
If you want to try the H3, I'd suggest the H3 H37, which sadly, is provincial only (not commercial afaik). On the BH I don't think you will need harder, and on the FH, if you happen to like it, you can go up as you wish...
Let me put it this way about H3: Back in the days my BH was not good enough to use faster ESN, so I used the H3 H37. When I improved and played against better players I face pressure on the BH, so I started using ESN rubbers and I like it on the BH. And now, my BH is not good enough the use H3 H37. Hopefully, one day ;-)
says
Buttefly Forever!!!
says
Buttefly Forever!!!
Well-Known Member
After playing today I think it is the high throw angle that is causing me issues! I am used to brushing (The Ekrips) with a big loop in a more upwards motion to get the ball over the net with spin and speed.From what i remember playing back when you did, Ekrips was quite Mark V like (which I used with Tibhar Rapid Dtecs that was a great rubber too
It is a very different game now with much more pace and almost flat hitting in comparison of the spin of the older game (21 points 38mm ball etc). And also coming back to the sport after a big break a while back like you, you will have to change technique -I imagine the throw angle maybe the biggest problem that you are experiencing with G09c.
The rubber and blade you have chosen are very good - they aren't the issue (though i much prefer the Glayzer series on outer carbon blades - but that would not be a good choice for now). It will be technique that isnt right and feel strange, but it will come with practice.
You have two options - stick with it, (ideally with coaching) if not too demoralising atm, or switch to something that will feel similar to Ekrips an older generation rubber - Mark v, Roundell, Sriver etc.
But a word of caution if i may
If i was you I would chose option one - dont spend anymore on equipment right now and spend it on coaching.
I am pretty much agreeing with what @NextLevel is saying - just in more words - but i would stay away from H3 or something like that on FH coming back to the sport.
I let my son have a go with my bat today and I used a wood 5 ply, literally no tackiness, very low throw angle and very thin sponge rental bat which I could control and loop much better. I could use a full motion and effort. It felt much safer!
Not sure how this would work when more speed and power is coming back at me though. The backhand is much less of an issue as naturally I use a more closed bat angle!
Closing the angle on the forehand feels uncomfortable at the minute and is causing me more errors with less surface area of the bat to hit with in a more forwards motion.
As Lodro said at the start of the thread a lot of players seem to be using two different rubbers and from what I can gather the DHS hurricane rubbers and similar are popular on the forehand and have a lower throw angle than the Glayzer and similar rubbers. Which would allow more of a upwards brush loop motion keeping the ball lower over the net with more spin.
What would be the advantages to learning to use the Glayzer (apart from that I already have it)?
This user has no status.
Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
If it were me, based on what you have said so far, I would focus on adjusting my technique from what you describe (older style) to the more closed face, forward motion oriented drives, topspin’s and loops - these will ultimately serve you better as you continue to improve and move forwards in your game.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
The point of the "throw angle" is to enable you to play aggressive shots with the spin and the power/speed moving in largely the same direction. Right now, you are trying to brush for spin using an open racket face but brushing upwards on the ball thinly, when with modern tubbers, you can open the racket, hit into the ball much more open and aggressively and close over the ball/brush and get a really spinny and powerful shot. Or you can close the angle and pick up the ball with a single awing even on some heavy backspin.So The same forward motion produces spin and speed at the same time for the most part.
Ultimately it really depends on what your goals are. Everyone refines technique, it is a matter of time to train and a matter of how far you can go as a human being as we can only build on what we currently are/do. Even when you watch Rosskopf or Persson loop as coaches, you see elements of old and new technique. But since you and I are not world class players or coaches, you can do whatever genuinely makes you happy. I enjoy playing with hard sponge tacky rubber on both sides of my racket for example, while Dignics 09c has made it a bit more common, I did it quite a bit with Big Dipper when the plastic ball was first introduced. I just enjoyed the grip/spin which I never felt using non-tacky rubbers compared to how things worked with celluloid and I find it interesting that ESN and Butterfly got to the same place later with all these hybrids.
The main point here is that if you feel comfortable using Mark V and don't want to invest time on modern technique, it is entirely respectable as long as you why you are doing so. After all. We have a vet player in NY who had played a hitting game for decades with Mark V and an all wood blade and he gives loopers fits. But if you are going to focus on just topspin, your setup is going to lag behind for sure. But if you want to be all round and play with some variation and deception, then you might have a chance with it. I personally would recommend you get coaching and learn the modern game. Putting the ball on the table ia not everything especially in training. Give yourself time to adapt. If your instincts are too hard to overcome, you always have a fall back or might be able to find a modern rubber that fits somewhere in between.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
There is no good enough or not good enough. It all depends on how you play.
I use Hurricane on the forehand. BH is Rakza 7 soft or C-1 2.0mm sponge. Eventually I hope to be "good enough" to upgrade to max sponge for Rakza 7 soft. Then after that I don't care. Should I upgrade to Rakza 7 regular? who knows? Should I upgrade to DNA pro XH like 53 degree or Tenergy 05 hard like a real table tennis pro? No because I don't plan to train that hard.
Kreanga for a while was using T05 fx on his backhand which is about 42 or 43 degree ESN rubber. Was he not good enough for harder rubber?
I am only chiming in because there are harder and harder ESN rubbers now. And I do get the sense that if you can master these 50+ degree rubber on the backhand side, then it means you are a pro. Honestly, I don't care. I want to enjoy the sport and not have to train five hours a day.....
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
I meant that there are some obvious prominent examples of top players, who use H3 H37 on the BH, and have zero problem with pressure from opponents on the BH side, even when those play with fast ESN rubbers. There is more to the H3 H37 than what meets the eye ;-).
I think the H3 is also an absolutely excellent entry rubber, because on that level, it is slow enough to force you to do the movement fully. It also gives you enough spin potential. And in that hardness, it is imho, quite suitable. Based on what the OP wrote so far about the stroke, and throw angle, I actually think, he may enjoy it. But there are many ways...
Similar threads
