Something to think about regarding technique

[Shuki]

Shuki, it's fine. I don't understand why you feel the need to even apologize.

'


Just common curtesy i guess. The way I was raised, when I feel like I acted inappropriately or am proven wrong, I try to admit fault. Sure it's easy to just keep coming up with more and more scenarios that would prove myself right, but my father had always told me it was a sign of maturity to admit you're wrong and apologize, regardless if you still feel entitled to being right.

 

[Archosaurus]

'


Just common curtesy i guess. The way I was raised, when I feel like I acted inappropriately or am proven wrong, I try to admit fault. Sure it's easy to just keep coming up with more and more scenarios that would prove myself right, but my father had always told me it was a sign of maturity to admit you're wrong and apologize, regardless if you still feel entitled to being right.

Well, feeling entitled to being accepted as being right and feeling that you are indeed right are two different things. I believe in sticking with what you're absolutely sure of, lest you get swayed by other people or taken advantage of. The worst thing you can do is say sorry when you're not in the wrong, and if you need to do so in any case, do get better people in your life instead.

I didn't take any offence and whatever ticked you off was probably worth it, I guess.

 

[Shuki]

Well, feeling entitled to being accepted as being right and feeling that you are indeed right are two different things. I believe in sticking with what you're absolutely sure of, lest you get swayed by other people or taken advantage of. The worst thing you can do is say sorry when you're not in the wrong, and if you need to do so in any case, do get better people in your life instead.

I didn't take any offence and whatever ticked you off was probably worth it, I guess.

=]
I'm not saying you need to stop sticking to your guns, Good for you for doing so. When you know you're right don't let people sway you from your beliefs. I'm just saying I'm not the kind of person who is normally going to keep arguing with you.
Are you married or in a relationship? sometime's you need to just let your significant other be right even when they aren't.

It's more about the phrase "taking the higher road". Backing down in the argument and apologizing for being hostile even if I don't truly mean it. I understand I didn't offend you, but still, being rude to you wasn't something I should have done in the situation that was given.

 

[SchemeSC]

For what it's worth, there are some higher level players (i.e. Brian Pace) that claim having both feet off the ground at the moment of contact is the ideal way to play a FH loop. I don't have much of an opinion either way, personally, as it's a topic that's way above my pay grade.

 

[Archosaurus]

For what it's worth, there are some higher level players (i.e. Brian Pace) that claim having both feet off the ground at the moment of contact is the ideal way to play a FH loop. I don't have much of an opinion either way, personally, as it's a topic that's way above my pay grade.

Brian Pace also calls his forehand loop the perfect loop and markets it as such. Fang Bo didn't seem to care about the supposed perfect mechanics he has while he was swinging around uncoordinated.

So do take everything he has to say with a little salt.

 

[SchemeSC]

Brian Pace also calls his forehand loop the perfect loop and markets it as such. Fang Bo didn't seem to care about the supposed perfect mechanics he has while he was swinging around uncoordinated.

So do take everything he has to say with a little salt.

Archosaurus,

Honestly, I would prefer to learn something new rather than sit around and insult one of the few online coaches we have that provides free content.

If you watch Brian Pace play his basic loop in warmups, it is clear that both of his feet are NOT off the ground at the moment of contact. You can see this in any of the videos on his Youtube channel. When we talk about the "ideal" loop, I am speaking about maximum power transfer into the ball in a match situation.

So let me ask you the question this way:

If Wang Liqin is preparing to play a loop-kill and he has his right foot set properly on the ground, is completely on balance, and is waiting for the ball (essentially the ideal situation), will both of his feet be off the ground at the same time at any point during the execution of his stroke?

 

[Archosaurus]

Archosaurus,

Honestly, I would prefer to learn something new rather than sit around and insult one of the few online coaches we have that provides free content.

If you watch Brian Pace play his basic loop in warmups, it is clear that both of his feet are NOT off the ground at the moment of contact. You can see this in any of the videos on his Youtube channel. When we talk about the "ideal" loop, I am speaking about maximum power transfer into the ball in a match situation.

So let me ask you the question this way:

If Wang Liqin is preparing to play a loop-kill and he has his right foot set properly on the ground, is completely on balance, and is waiting for the ball (essentially the ideal situation), will both of his feet be off the ground at the same time at any point during the execution of his stroke?

I've never seen Wang Liqin in such a situation in a match, so I don't know if it's set in stone if both of his feet are off the ground or not.

Every video I have seen of Wang Liqin demonstrating his stroke has his feet on the ground, but that is not the same stroke as a loop kill.

Why is this being discussed, though? No one said feet off the ground is bad: just what direction you're going when in the air. Surely, if you jump into the ball with your feet off the ground, and you pushed into it, you generate more force at the ball.

 

[SchemeSC]

Surely, if you jump into the ball with your feet off the ground, and you pushed into it, you generate more force at the ball.

So maybe I shouldn't take EVERYTHING Brian Pace says with a grain of salt, then?

 

[Archosaurus]

So maybe I shouldn't take EVERYTHING Brian Pace says with a grain of salt, then?

Yes, you should, based on the context.

What if he tells you to violently jump at the ball when pushing it short?

 

[Shuki]

Yes, you should, based on the context.

What if he tells you to violently jump at the ball when pushing it short?

Good choice, when playing off the table jumping quickly to the push and then jumping back into position is the right mindset. I believe he would say this too.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Archosaurus,

Honestly, I would prefer to learn something new rather than sit around and insult one of the few online coaches we have that provides free content.

If you watch Brian Pace play his basic loop in warmups, it is clear that both of his feet are NOT off the ground at the moment of contact. You can see this in any of the videos on his Youtube channel. When we talk about the "ideal" loop, I am speaking about maximum power transfer into the ball in a match situation.

So let me ask you the question this way:

If Wang Liqin is preparing to play a loop-kill and he has his right foot set properly on the ground, is completely on balance, and is waiting for the ball (essentially the ideal situation), will both of his feet be off the ground at the same time at any point during the execution of his stroke?

actually a very small portion is for free. brian pace is advertising his videos to earn money nothing wrong with that. but dont expect to learn a certain technique through a free video. even 2 hours of video cannot match a real life training with a coach. Brian is a decent player but this does not mean that he is the expert he claims he is.

TTedge and pingskills are far more reliable especially in basic technique issues.

 

[Der_Echte]

Brian Pace is a much better communicator and leader than he gets credit for. As a player, when he was in Uni, he was a top amature. He would have played position 5 or 6 for 2.Bundesliga level at his prime. That is pretty good level, he isn't a country chump. He knows fundamentals and can articulate them well.

 

[NextLevel]

For what it's worth, there are some higher level players (i.e. Brian Pace) that claim having both feet off the ground at the moment of contact is the ideal way to play a FH loop. I don't have much of an opinion either way, personally, as it's a topic that's way above my pay grade.

It's actually physics and is more often discussed in the context of smashes (Richard McAfee's "Table Tennis: Steps to Success" is another reference). In any case, I have read enough here to feel even more chained to my position that people who have posted public video of their own strokes tend to be more careful when criticizing the efforts of others.

 

[Archosaurus]

Good choice, when playing off the table jumping quickly to the push and then jumping back into position is the right mindset. I believe he would say this too.

This is why context is important.

If you're right on the endline and jump at the ball, is it right?
If you're 3m from the table and jump at the ball, is it right?




You could argue that all jumping is bad: but in that case the majority of footwork would be bad, so you do kind of need to make a distinction.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

And with the video in question, when you pause it frame by frame to where Nikoli contacts the ball, his hips have started rotating forward into the ball right on contact.

His one step over to take the FH from the BH position is a hair late and his step is a hair too short. So he is taking the ball slightly too close to his body. But as he is contacting the ball, his hips are rotating forward and into the ball.

A moment before that, they were moving back and to the side for the footwork to take the forehand from that backhand position. But, on contact, his hips are moving in the right direction.

Watch it slowly, on frame at a time. Pause right before contact. Pause on contact. Pause after. You can see, his hips are going in the right direction just as he contacts the ball.

That means the hip rotation starts a hair later than it aught to. But it still starts in time to put some power into the ball.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[NextLevel]

This is why context is important.

If you're right on the endline and jump at the ball, is it right?
If you're 3m from the table and jump at the ball, is it right?




You could argue that all jumping is bad: but in that case the majority of footwork would be bad, so you do kind of need to make a distinction.

Having your feet off the ground is not quite the same thing as jumping. Jumping is largely bad if it changes your level of vision during rallies but when it does no, it is largely meaningless.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here is the actual footwork in the video that started all this discussion.

In these two videos, the person gets to the spot for the shot sooner and is set sooner than Nikoli was. And the person has stepped far enough. But this is the step Nikoli takes before he hits the ball. And, again, if you watch Nikoli's video frame by frame, he uses the step around footwork to step around his backhand and take a forehand from where his backhand took the previous shot. But when he contacts the ball, his hips are moving forward into the ball like these guys:

The first video is Faulkenberg. The step around transition from backhand to forehand from the backhand corner is the part of the Faulkenberg that I am referring to.

In this next video, Jeff Plumb from Ping Skills explains and demonstrates how to do this footwork.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Nikoli]

Having your feet off the ground is not quite the same thing as jumping. Jumping is largely bad if it changes your level of vision during rallies but when it does no, it is largely meaningless.

Jumping is bad, pushing forward is good. Though some people might have this idea mixed up.

 

[Nikoli]

 

[Archosaurus]

Bear in mind that when I said jumping, I meant literally jumping, as in being in the air for any moment. All footwork is essentially jumping, instead of say taking steps. That's why you can't say that "never jump" or "never have both legs off the ground".