Something to think about regarding technique

[UpSideDownCarl]

Video on the way soon - have finalised the practice match part and just need to shoot a quick couple of minutes explaining the grip and accompanying philosophy. With any luck should be available in an hour or two.

The practice match video isn't perfect but I think it will give you guys the general idea of what I was trying to explain in my first few posts.

Stay tuned! (or boosted or whatever)

Sorry - going to be at least another 6-7 hours. I can't upload it yet because uploading to YouTube slows down my internet and my partner needs it for work at the moment. I'll upload it when we head out later, and then post the link when I get back from table tennis tonight.

Cheers,
Greg

Thanks DTop. I am looking forward to it.

 

[Archosaurus]

Carl, your last posts have been hilarious. I had a good laugh. Thanks.

 

[NextLevel]

Carl, your last posts have been hilarious. I had a good laugh. Thanks.

IT's not as funny as you might think. PNatchwey used to post a lot of stuff on Tenergy 05 blogs and make lots of comments about looping theory and physics on mytt. I was already at his level or a higher level player than he was when I was reading those posts and here I was trying to apply them to my own game and struggling. The same goes with EJing sometimes and with many things on TT in online forums. People take the words of posters very seriously and don't really understand the relevance to their personal context.

Example: I was once responding to the post of a top 150 player in Britain as an 1800 level player on mytt and didn't realize it.

Another: When I was 1600 or so, I saw a guy do a review of a rubber and some people discounted his statements because his forehand was not good enough. I had a really bad forehand back then so I didn't get what they were talking about. But since I now know the player as a friend and he roughly 1400-1700, more likely towards the lower end, I see what they meant. These were 2000+ level players speaking. If they didn't see his video, they would not have been able to see whether he was a high enough level player to take seriously or not.

I have seen people who would have highly effective check the box natural strokes ruin their games and mindsets trying to copy CNT technique in all its gory details rather than building their own personal technique from scratch. CNT technique is the end result of a building process and is extremely physical. That is why things like what Greg does and is arguing are more generalizable than we think. They could actually grow the sport significantly with wider adoption.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Some digging on my flash disks and voila here is your video. Sorry for the quality and ratio (cellphone camera) it's not a serious training session but more like "fooling around with two friends" . I'll make sure to post more footage of serious matches or training although the greek divisions championships have ended for my team and I havent played for a while.

It was recorded last year and we still played with the celluloid balls. At some point I change my paddle to maze with hurricane on FH/tenergy BH, my initial setup is what I have in my profile here.

Enjoy !

 

[DTopSpirit]

OK - finally back home and the video is uploaded. You can find it here:

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

OK - finally back home and the video is uploaded. You can find it here:

DTop, you have discovered the Atanda Musa grip.

 

[NextLevel]

I tried to get a similar effect by taking my wrist back on my loops and slapping forward into the ball. I haven't fully worked it out yet but I know my BH slaps into the ball far better and I want to reproduce that, I think talking the wrist back on the backhand is part of that.

 

[TTFrenzy]

position of the tip of the index finger is also crucial. the index finger should not touch completely the paddle but only the tip of it. this way the wrist is completely relaxed and you can guide the ball with the finger

 

[Archosaurus]

"Slap" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when talking about looping.

What exactly is meant with this? Contact force or just an additional wrist movement?

 

[NextLevel]

"Slap" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when talking about looping.

What exactly is meant with this? Contact force or just an additional wrist movement?

Watch Greg's video.

 

[TTFrenzy]

"Slap" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when talking about looping.

What exactly is meant with this? Contact force or just an additional wrist movement?

well by definition a slap is a flat contact, when you slap someone you dont brush his cheek do you ? dont get terminology too seriously, a "slapping" movement of the wrist can also be used as a term on a loop/flick

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

"Slap" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when talking about looping.

What exactly is meant with this? Contact force or just an additional wrist movement?

I am tempted to post certain video footage of someone who claims to be looping when instead he is doing something else. But instead I will post an all time favorite video for comedy purposes:

I love how Matt goes effortlessly from looping to slapping.

But, for an actual answer to your question you have to examine DTop's video.

 

[Nikoli]

position of the tip of the index finger is also crucial. the index finger should not touch completely the paddle but only the tip of it. this way the wrist is completely relaxed and you can guide the ball with the finger

can't agree with you on this one. The index finger has to touch the blade 100% for ball feeling. How can you feel the vibration with just the tip of your index touching the blade? Relaxed wrist has nothing to do with the index finger anyway. Very odd advise you're giving out here.

 

[Nikoli]

I tried to get a similar effect by taking my wrist back on my loops and slapping forward into the ball. I haven't fully worked it out yet but I know my BH slaps into the ball far better and I want to reproduce that, I think talking the wrist back on the backhand is part of that.

You don't try to control your wrist on contact point for extra spin. Just loose it up, the swing momentum will do the rest. When you try to focus on wrist control, you'll lose focus on your hips and arms. Do some experiments with this, and you'll see what i mean. Cheers.

 

[NextLevel]

You don't try to control your wrist on contact point for extra spin. Just loose it up, the swing momentum will do the rest. When you try to focus on wrist control, you'll lose focus on your hips and arms. Do some experiments with this, and you'll see what i mean. Cheers.

I have bad knees so I don't loop conventionally or use my hips as much. Maybe I will post a video on the experiments I do.

 

[NextLevel]

can't agree with you on this one. The index finger has to touch the blade 100% for ball feeling. How can you feel the vibration with just the tip of your index touching the blade? Relaxed wrist has nothing to do with the index finger anyway. Very odd advise you're giving out here.

I actually think TTFrenzy is right here from one perspective. Or Persson would never be able to play. As a great English player once said, when it comes to technique and contact points, we all do things a little differently.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The question is, has Nikoli watched DTop's video. If he hasn't he missed the entire context for TTFrenzy's statement. Since you can't have the entire index finger on the blade face and hold as low on the handle as he is for the grip he is showing.

And all I can say about the subject is, if anyone saw how Atanda Musa held the racket they would think he did not know how to play. But in the 1980s he was undoubtedly the highest rated player out of Africa and was in the top 30 in the world. At 50 he was still over 2600 and at 59 he is probably in the 2400-2500 range and his forehand is still pretty amazing. So NextLevel's statement holds some extra weight in my estimation:

I actually think TTFrenzy is right here from one perspective. Or Persson would never be able to play. As a great English player once said, when it comes to technique and contact points, we all do things a little differently.

 

[Archosaurus]

Seeing as we're talking about sensory information here, can it not be possible that perhaps some people feel better with the entire finger, and some with the fingertip?

Of course, you can argue this from a scientific standpoint, but we're talking about a practical standpoint. It's not like doing one or the other, if you're doing a good stroke and can feel the ball, is wrong entirely.

That's assuming the only thing influenced is the sensory information, and not the stroke itself.

 

[TTFrenzy]

You don't try to control your wrist on contact point for extra spin. Just loose it up, the swing momentum will do the rest. When you try to focus on wrist control, you'll lose focus on your hips and arms. Do some experiments with this, and you'll see what i mean. Cheers.

Its a 100 % checked advice my friend. You feel the ball with the tip of your index finger not your whole finger. Just bounce the ball your way and then my way and observe what nerve is activated and where, u cant feel the ball with the rest finger as you feel it with your tip (or to be more specific, you feel the ball BETTER with the tip of your finger) . One issue is this another issue is that is the whole finger is touching the blade, your tendons are blocked so you dont have full wrist motion, I dont know if you can do it but most of the players I have discussed it with feel the same

 

[TTFrenzy]

Seeing as we're talking about sensory information here, can it not be possible that perhaps some people feel better with the entire finger, and some with the fingertip?

Of course, you can argue this from a scientific standpoint, but we're talking about a practical standpoint. It's not like doing one or the other, if you're doing a good stroke and can feel the ball, is wrong entirely.

That's assuming the only thing influenced is the sensory information, and not the stroke itself.

Maybe some people feel better i dont know but I dont quite think so cause almost every decent player I have talked with likes it better touching only the tip. Not because of the feeling but the sense of accuracy and relaxation that this "technique" gives. Now as nextlevel said we all do things a little differently but if you watch most of the pros, 99% of them touch the blade with the tip


A few examples that seem (im not sure 100 % about this just a speculation after some matches I saw) is that damien eloi and lucian blascyz from poland touch the blade with the whole finger and they even have the index finger relatively high in the paddle compared to other players. Thomas keinath has a similar style also