Using a Blade designed for table tennis - Why isn't everyone making the switch!?

[NextLevel]

Some guesses on why it's not popular:

1. Only Nittaku has the blade and perhaps they patented the design. Unless you are sponsored by Nittaku, you would use the brand that sponsored you.
2. No pros use it so there's no following from amateurs
3. Lack of models. There's no ALC, ZLC, 7 ply, hinoki, hardwood, etc
4. Thin handle.
5. Players are already used to the straight and flared designs of their first blades.
6. Transition period. Players would have to rebuild their techniques during which they would miss out on leagues and tournaments. Even more so for pros.
7. There's no coaches for tenaly blades. All of them walked the path of straight and flared, and may be against it.
8. The blades are expensive compared to similar alternatives
9. Not enough advertisement. Almost nobody knows about it. Unless you have some sort of wrist injury, you wouldn't do the research. More focus is put on rubbers and carbons fibers.
10. People want new stuff. Tenaly is more than a decade old.
11. Few stores carry them for customers to try out. You would have to fly to Japan just to hold one.

The fact that there are no coaches for Tenaly blades is an underestimated point. Teaching the nuances of a grip is hard for a blade you don't understand, especially in the short game, which is the critical part of high level table tennis.

 

[OvrChkn]

I've seen someone at a tournament use the Tenaly handle with a Cybershape Carbon a while back. Didn't get too much of an impression of it outside of cleaning my glasses to see if I was seeing things properly.

 

[turbozed]

From researching the Nittaku tenaly handles further, it seems like the handle is too thin near the blade. Some believe it's due to being designed specifically for smaller Japanese women hands (the designer was a former women's champion). Other's think that it's thin so that it can double as a penhold as well as shakehand. The result is many people are suggesting it be 'fixed' for shakehand players with grip tape.

I'm starting to think that Tenaly isn't popular because Nittaku botched its launch by not designing it specifically for shakehand and for normal sized men's hands (which comprise the large majority of the market) and instead trying to cover too many bases at the same time. If you're going to convince people to switch to an ergonomic handle, it better feel perfect for the shakehand player, and enough for them to invest time to switch. By making it try to appeal to everyone, it ended up being suitable for nobody.

I'll still probably pick up one out of curiosity and then fix the thinness with grip tape. But infamou thin Nittaku handle is the exact reason why I got rid of my Acoustic. Right now it looks like the true Tenaly experience can only experienced by people with very small hands or people who can risk have a custom blade and handle made.

 

[blahness]

It's actually not that big of an adjustment. Charlie of BBC is a big proponent of this, as well as the "advanced grip" @igorponger posted about down the thread. He's let me use some of these blades and it really only takes a few minutes to adjust to it for basic practice shots. I'm sure fully adjusting to it will take longer, but it's probably easier than say switching from a wood to a carbon blade.

I have an extra small blade made by Charlie (half the blade head size) to practice hitting specific spot on the blade, and that uses the same Tenaly style handle. Even with the much smaller head size it's not that difficult to use.

But is there something that is a bit like the Viscaria except for the angle of the handle?

Anyway for shakehand FH flick which is a notorious weakness of shakehand (the natural angle to use pronation has the blade slightly tilted up (look at Ma Long flicking vs Ma Lin - he doesnt really drop the racket down towards the table), so you actually have more table in the way compared to say penhold). The penhold angle is much better for the FH flick.

Even chiquita is much easier if the blade is naturally dropped.

 

[dingyibvs]

But is there something that is a bit like the Viscaria except for the angle of the handle?

Anyway for shakehand FH flick which is a notorious weakness of shakehand (the natural angle to use pronation has the blade slightly tilted up (look at Ma Long flicking vs Ma Lin - he doesnt really drop the racket down towards the table), so you actually have more table in the way compared to say penhold). The penhold angle is much better for the FH flick.

Even chiquita is much easier if the blade is naturally dropped.

You can get a blade maker to make one for you, probably for less money than the Viscaria.

 

[blahness]

You can get a blade maker to make one for you, probably for less money than the Viscaria.

Where though?

 

[dingyibvs]

Where though?

Can't @hipnotic do it? Charlie's been ill recently, but I can also ask him if he does composite blades when he recovers. I know he does carbon blades, but not sure about composite.

 

[SlowPower]

After reading this discussion I decided to build my next blade with a tenaly-like handle.
Sounds very reasonably to use more wrist or to have easier access to using it...

Maybe combined with a cybershapy head.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

A sheet of wood on each side of the hand would be even better.

View attachment 28696

where can I get this uber cool design blade.

 

[z0uLess]

where can I get this uber cool design blade.

dunno if anyone is making it, I just thought of it and someone in my club had seen this image, so I searched for the image on the internet. the thing is that you aim much much better if you have your index finger as close to the hitting point as possible -- its how the had is naturally much more proficient at being accurate. I have done some pistol shooting and this is the reason why you have your index finger along side of the barrel. everyone can point at something very accrurately and they know where their hand is. I also have competed at a high level in first person shooter gamers and I know how important it is what your placement of your index finger is depending on where the optical sensor of the pc mouse is located. just take a look at how lebrun has introduced holding his finger much higher on the backside of his racket. he wants to be as close to the ball contact as possible with his hand to be more accurate

 

[blahness]

This blade design would also make it a lot easier to serve very topspinny pendulum and you can serve reverse pendulum without so much contortion of the arm (because of how naturally dropped the blade is). For hook serves it would be good too since it's already naturally hooked, but imo it's not a big help because hook serves are already very natural to use.

 

[Danttgeek]

I have never seen this bat in action - Could you record some video of how it plays?

Your skill level isn't all that important here (although it's not completely insignificant), but it would be nice to see the mechanics behind the stroke and to see why you like it so much.



Do you not think you are underestimating the muscle memory that thousands of hours of lifetime practice builds up?

We've seen professional players try 100's of bats and pick their favourite 10 from "feel"....... It would take someone a very long time to get accustomed to a new design having played a lifetime with a different one.

You then have sponsorship and marketing to think about.

If I were Nittaku, I'd try and throw money at a promising junior player, on the off chance they become a superstar and everyone thinks their bat shape is some secret advantage.

The 'muscle memory' thing really isn't a big issue - it's just a slightly lower contact point so you top edge hit a bit during the first few hours.

So frustrating about the limited blades with Nittaku - I just got the accoustic as a spare to my inner carbon for a different feel - will see what it's like. These blades aren't cheap - I like other blades but the handle thing is significant for me.

I mean, professionals can compensate for using a racket with poor design more easily - but I would be surprised if most people wouldn't see the obvious advantage. I guess people get stuck in their thinking.

Here is a video of me trying to explain - not sure how well it worked - it's a bit awkward trying to capture it with a camera compared to seeing it in person.

 

[Danttgeek]

A sheet of wood on each side of the hand would be even better.

View attachment 28696

HAHA - THAT'S A LOT OF WOOD - not sure about doing pushes with that one.

 

[Danttgeek]

I agree. This design would be tremendously better in terms of short game (particularly FH flick, but also it will make the chiquita more deadly as you can make more variations with less differences in preparation), while not really sacrificing much in terms of the main strokes.

But tbh, making such a change is a huge adjustment - someone has to take the lead on it first.

Well, the point is that it is NOT a huge adjustment - I transitioned within a few hours. The only issue was top edging a number of balls in the beginning.

 

[Danttgeek]

Alright guys, I'm going to Tokyo in a few weeks and now with the exchange rate being so good, the Tenaly Carbon is selling for an affordable $60.

So I'll be picking it up and trying it out. Thin carbon plies (not sure what type but guessing it's the FE Carbon that Nittaku often uses). 5.7mm which is a bit thin, and don't know what the composition is except for the outer plies appear to be limba.

If anything, it can be used as a penhold blade too, so it's a nice blade to have around for variety. I'll be doing a detailed review when I come back and use it in Vietnam.

Would love to see what you think and if you can see the advantage from just holding it in your hand and simulating the point of contact!?

 

[Danttgeek]

Donic make the DOTEC blades, these are ergonomically designed, but still leave a bit to be desired, they naturally close the face slightly on the FH, but then it's more open on the BH. They a good blades, but maybe 4 or so models.

I don't see the angle advantage, it's just a grip thing.

 

[Danttgeek]

View attachment 28697
View attachment 28698

The best reasonable grip vs obsolete grip.
The grip exposed on the right side will allow you to spin the ball like hell because of your wrist totally relaxed.

Be happy.

Interesting - feels a bit unstable to me, but I agree that less tension in middle fingers is helpful. However, this doesn't address the angle advantage.

 

[Danttgeek]

Lots of players, especially professionals, have all kinds of micro adjustments to their blades that no one will seriously discuss because they are all preferred personal preferences over time. Someone posted to my complete surprise that Steffen Mengel has a very specific handle/blade design that he gets from Soulspin.

Steffen Mengel Table Tennis Racket 🏓 SOULSPIN Shop

New: Table Tennis racket developed for and with Steffen Mengel with a special shape. Now available in the SOULSPIN Shop. More about Steffen's racket >>

soulspin.de

In the end, given there are so many different grips in the sport, even historically given penhold and shakehand and the variations in both, we are still at a point where anyone claiming to have found the ultimate blade design or grip is speaking for himself.

Well tweaks and preferences and yada yada - sure.

But my point is that table tennis rackets are fundamentally incompatible with the shakehand table tennis stroke.

On the other hand, the penhold actually directs the spin forward! Everyone always suggests that the increase in spin that some penholders get is due to the greater range of movement - I don't think this is true. I think it's because the spin is aligned!

 

[NextLevel]

Well tweaks and preferences and yada yada - sure.

But my point is that table tennis rackets are fundamentally incompatible with the shakehand table tennis stroke.

On the other hand, the penhold actually directs the spin forward! Everyone always suggests that the increase in spin that some penholders get is due to the greater range of movement - I don't think this is true. I think it's because the spin is aligned!

I think when making such statements, given that there have been as many if not more shakehand champions as penhold champions, that one needs to show that one understands table tennis sufficiently to make such a claim. It's far more likely that there are benefits and demerits to each grip and that spin being aligned might have a tradeoff that you are not at a level to acknowledge. The shakehand grip is very versatile and from country to country, there are variations in grip depth as well as finger configuration. And the pressure that using the penhold grip places on finger strength by having less stability in the palm is not something to just dismiss on the basis of theoretical physics.

 

[dingyibvs]

I think when making such statements, given that there have been as many if not more shakehand champions as penhold champions, that one needs to show that one understands table tennis sufficiently to make such a claim. It's far more likely that there are benefits and demerits to each grip and that spin being aligned might have a tradeoff that you are not at a level to acknowledge. The shakehand grip is very versatile and from country to country, there are variations in grip depth as well as finger configuration. And the pressure that using the penhold grip places on finger strength by having less stability in the palm is not something to just dismiss on the basis of theoretical physics.

Penhold grip's issue isn't the forehand though, it's the backhand.