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If Kanak Jha did it or anyone else my response would be the same as my original post. A warning or small fine would be reasonable for any player doing this. As far as the camera is concerned, I love it! This is good emotion for our sport. Emotion that is fined or punished by the ITTF does not mean it is "bad" emotion for Table Tennis. The ITTF is far from being an entity that makes great decisions all the time. Their decision to fine 45k Euros for two broken card board barriers is embarrassing.
Jike accidently destroyed the first barrier in excitement. It seemed to me he kicked the 2nd barrier on purpose. No big deal, and it beats a boring ending with little to no emotion between two teammates from China. A warning or small fine would discourage kids from doing it, which was a concern of yours.
Players can't just let the ITTF run them over In their wallet like this. It sets a dangerous precedent.
Jike accidently destroyed the first barrier in excitement. It seemed to me he kicked the 2nd barrier on purpose. No big deal, and it beats a boring ending with little to no emotion between two teammates from China. A warning or small fine would discourage kids from doing it, which was a concern of yours.
Players can't just let the ITTF run them over In their wallet like this. It sets a dangerous precedent.
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If Kanak Jha or anyone else did this my response would be the same. A small fine or a warning is reasonable. 45k Euros is not only unreasonable, but it sets a dangerous precedent that the ITTF can rob a players wallet for something as little as two broken cardboard barriers after a win.
As far as the camera is concerned, it's fantastic to see emotion worthy of a discussion. I'm harping here in the U.S. to make Table Tennis more exciting whenever possible. Jike's celebration beats a simple handshake between two teammates. If it was you, would you find it acceptable giving them your 45k Euros over that?
-Jimmy
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It would be very unpleasant for me, but I'd blame no one but myself for behaving like an idiot and breaking the rules of the competition set out by the event organizers. This is called taking responsibility.
Just to be clear, I have no problem with the actual celebration of the win. E.g. like he did when he beat Wang Hao and ripped his shirt for the first time. And I fully expected ZJK to do something similar again, only more spectacular. However, destruction of property is where I personally have to draw a line.
What pains me most is that the final was a super-exciting match, one of the best between ML and ZJK as far I am concerned. And instead of having articles in mass media about ML's and ZJK's personalities and backgrounds, about how unbelievably athletic they are, how lightning-fast their reactions have to be to play at such speed, and how much tactics is involved in proper table tennis, all we end up with is stories with "epic fail" in the title that mention only the destruction of the barriers, the fine, and the spectator fights for the champion's shirt. Not one of these stories had a link to even a short form of the match, just the "celebration".
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ok, I will go back and make sure you have access.
Be...
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Technically, the competition was over when kicked the barriers in celebration so he didn't really break the rules of the competition. Maybe that is not a great argument, but I have been thinking it for awhile.
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so next time when Maze or other players that are known to kick tables/barriers too - please fine them 45000 Euro too, thank you very much!
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I agree, small fine and warning.
If this is the 2nd offence, then bigger fine + suspension
If this isa 3rd/repeated offence, then bigger fine + longer suspension.
So ITTF has opened cans of worms now.
Firstly, it is not a fine, but withhelding prize money of 45000 Euros - I wonder if such action is even legal.
Secondly, if it a fine, then they have set a benchmark of 45000 Euros for kicking barriers/unsportsmanship behaviour. So in the future, all punishment requires to be of the same value.
Third, what is ITTF going to do with these 45000 Euros?
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Some say the fine is unprecedented or too high.
According to http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29826136,
QPR defender Rio Ferdinand has been suspended for three matches and fined £25,000 by the Football Association for comments he made on Twitter. The 35-year-old ex-England captain has also been "severely warned as to his future conduct" and told to attend an education programme arranged by the FA.
According to http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29826136,
QPR defender Rio Ferdinand has been suspended for three matches and fined £25,000 by the Football Association for comments he made on Twitter. The 35-year-old ex-England captain has also been "severely warned as to his future conduct" and told to attend an education programme arranged by the FA.
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I wonder what is Rio's fine based on % of football earnings... I think he earns £2.5million a year (£50 000 a week). so this is 1% of his football yearly earnings.
With ZJK's 45000 Euro fine, I think he earns around 3 million rmb a year (from table tennis), which is 385 000 euro, so this fine is 12% of his yearly earnings from table tennis. If i'm wrong, then double it to 6 million rmb, so 6% of his yearly earnings.
Rio's fine is nothing then
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You cant compare table tennis to a tier 1 sport,where the players earn millions in a year.
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It was a celebration. An excessive celebration, but only a celebration. By comparison, other sports have punished their players similarly for far worse offenses. When put in its proper perspective, taking away the entire prize money for kicking a stand in exuberent celebration, after an epic match between the two best players, is absurd. There isn't any similar precedent in any sport that I'm aware of. I guess the ITTF needs that money much more than Zhang Jike does.
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We have 135 posts of discussion if it is fair or not to punish Zhang Jike for his behavior, and most of discussion is about correlation of price of broken barriers and size of fine.
But in my opinion, it is absolutely not important.
First of all, there was no "fine of 45000 EUR". It was not his own money, it was part of prize that could be presented to him as a reward for his achievement. And instead of punishing a bad boy and disqualifying him, jury decided to give him well-earned title of World Cup Winner, but not give him monetary award. No difference what is size of award. I think it is fair: his skills and iron will are honored, but "bad boy's behavior" is punished.
Second, I am 100% sure that this decision was approved (or at least accepted) by Chinese national comitee, for example by Liu Guoliang - no disapproval or concerns were voiced from chinese team.
Third one. Think about another side of price. Think of 45000 EUR not like a price of broken furniture, but as a valuation of discipline and sportsmanship.
How do you think, is honour and reputation of best table tennis player of the world, example for million of kids and young sportsman worth $30 or $55000?
Or may be it is priceless?
But in my opinion, it is absolutely not important.
First of all, there was no "fine of 45000 EUR". It was not his own money, it was part of prize that could be presented to him as a reward for his achievement. And instead of punishing a bad boy and disqualifying him, jury decided to give him well-earned title of World Cup Winner, but not give him monetary award. No difference what is size of award. I think it is fair: his skills and iron will are honored, but "bad boy's behavior" is punished.
Second, I am 100% sure that this decision was approved (or at least accepted) by Chinese national comitee, for example by Liu Guoliang - no disapproval or concerns were voiced from chinese team.
Third one. Think about another side of price. Think of 45000 EUR not like a price of broken furniture, but as a valuation of discipline and sportsmanship.
How do you think, is honour and reputation of best table tennis player of the world, example for million of kids and young sportsman worth $30 or $55000?
Or may be it is priceless?
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You have to understand that denying zjk price is a complete violation of the rule.
That is a power triping just to say they are in control of players. And what about those players who destroyed tables smashing kicking left and right, throwing blades and hitting officials? Were they denied of the price money aswell? No they are not
I dont see a corellation bet being the best table tennis player in the world vs honor and reputation. Those are two diffrent criteria..
Remeber that each person/player is unique..and we have diffrent ways of releasing pressure and stress if you are thinking about what people would say about what he did then.. "you cant please everybody" as the saying goes.
Was there an article saying that "100% dcision was approved by chinese national commitee?" Kindly share it with us pls..
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That is a power triping just to say they are in control of players. And what about those players who destroyed tables smashing kicking left and right, throwing blades and hitting officials? Were they denied of the price money aswell? No they are not
I dont see a corellation bet being the best table tennis player in the world vs honor and reputation. Those are two diffrent criteria..
Remeber that each person/player is unique..and we have diffrent ways of releasing pressure and stress if you are thinking about what people would say about what he did then.. "you cant please everybody" as the saying goes.
Was there an article saying that "100% dcision was approved by chinese national commitee?" Kindly share it with us pls..
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And there is normally also a rule for destroying any equipment: You will be disqualified and threw out of the hall. Without any pice money or a title. All other violations of this kind of aggression should be charged the same way.
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If you are still surprised about the decisions the Chinmese coachs can make please read the following article:
http://tabletennista.com/2014/10/li...-to-lose-against-zhang-jike-in-london-video//
I don't say it happens every time and averywhere, but it appears it still happens, sometimes for reasons difficult to understand. I'm quite sure that in the recent case (if there is a case at all) of the World Cup it could be about money. But we have a saying "if you don't know what it's all about, it's certainly about money". I believe or at least would like to believe that at the national level it is not about money (then something else, as described in the article), but most surely it is at lower levels. I read an article , will try to find it again, about the level of corruption in the Chinese TT at all levels, basically pointing at heavily competing players who want to play as it's the only way they can gain money and coaches that that don't gain money but it is them who decide who will play ...I was sort of stunned reading this but the system is easy to understand
http://tabletennista.com/2014/10/li...-to-lose-against-zhang-jike-in-london-video//
I don't say it happens every time and averywhere, but it appears it still happens, sometimes for reasons difficult to understand. I'm quite sure that in the recent case (if there is a case at all) of the World Cup it could be about money. But we have a saying "if you don't know what it's all about, it's certainly about money". I believe or at least would like to believe that at the national level it is not about money (then something else, as described in the article), but most surely it is at lower levels. I read an article , will try to find it again, about the level of corruption in the Chinese TT at all levels, basically pointing at heavily competing players who want to play as it's the only way they can gain money and coaches that that don't gain money but it is them who decide who will play ...I was sort of stunned reading this but the system is easy to understand
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