Same rubber on both sides for offensive players

[Shuki]

So after playing with t05 on both wings for a few weeks and my struggles trying to get my brain to hit the ball at different angles with different rubber's I've been coming back into a comfort zone. I'm out of town at the moment and had the chance to play with some players better than me, which were also technically higher rated by quite a bit. I toyed with them and still held the win with ease.

FOR ME, developing with one inverted looping rubber one one side and another looping rubber on the other side confuses my brain for a while trying to differentiate the angles that I have to go through the ball. When I use the same rubber on both side's I'm able to develop better and adapt quicker with each wing.

FOR OTHERS; if you're used to using something different on each wing then you'll have no issue adapting between the two wings.

There's no right or wrong in which way to go in general. But there is a right or wrong for one's self.

 

[Killerspintt]

Here is the point. They use: Tenergy 05, 80, 64, MX-P, H3 special made. There are exceptions, such as Stiga Calibra LT Spin used by Kristian Karlsson (he switched to Tenergy) and Bluefire pro versions e.g: Jonathan Groth. Anything else is very-very rare.

Not that much rare. Andro is the sponsor of many pro players in France (Stéphane Ouaiche, Damien Eloi....), they all play with Andro blade + Andro rubbers. Same goes for the pro-players sponsored by Cornilleau.

Here you can check the stuffs of many pro players in Germany : http://www.mytischtennis.de/public/fotos/355/ndm-2015-die-schlaeger-der-deutschen-stars/1

"anything else" is not very very rare in French ProA/ProB, it's not that rare either in German Bundesliga.

 

[NextLevel]

Not that much rare. Andro is the sponsor of many pro players in France (Stéphane Ouaiche, Damien Eloi....), they all play with Andro blade + Andro rubbers. Same goes for the pro-players sponsored by Cornilleau.

Here you can check the stuffs of many pro players in Germany : http://www.mytischtennis.de/public/fotos/355/ndm-2015-die-schlaeger-der-deutschen-stars/1

"anything else" is not very very rare in French ProA/ProB, it's not that rare either in German Bundesliga.

Yes, was thinking of Gauzy and co.

 

[Baal]

Not that much rare. Andro is the sponsor of many pro players in France (Stéphane Ouaiche, Damien Eloi....), they all play with Andro blade + Andro rubbers. Same goes for the pro-players sponsored by Cornilleau.

Here you can check the stuffs of many pro players in Germany : http://www.mytischtennis.de/public/fotos/355/ndm-2015-die-schlaeger-der-deutschen-stars/1

"anything else" is not very very rare in French ProA/ProB, it's not that rare either in German Bundesliga.

Wow, the interesting things about this for me were that (1) rubber asymmetry was more common than I would have suspected, so this suggests my entire premise for this thread was wrong, (2) how many people in German league used various ESN rubbers, more than I expected, and (3) what a large number of pro players in German league use ST handles.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Wow, how much Rasant! I was sure that there isn't that much non T / MX rubber in pro leagues. It seems I was wrong.

 

[NextLevel]

Wow, how much Rasant! I was sure that there isn't that much non T / MX rubber in pro leagues. It seems I was wrong.

Some of them are women, and most of the men do use Tenergy, especially 05. But the gap with ESN is not as large as it used to be and other brands are now used at the top as well.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

Not that much rare. Andro is the sponsor of many pro players in France (Stéphane Ouaiche, Damien Eloi....), they all play with Andro blade + Andro rubbers. Same goes for the pro-players sponsored by Cornilleau.

Here you can check the stuffs of many pro players in Germany : http://www.mytischtennis.de/public/fotos/355/ndm-2015-die-schlaeger-der-deutschen-stars/1

"anything else" is not very very rare in French ProA/ProB, it's not that rare either in German Bundesliga.

Thx for the link! Photo #36 -- too much booster?

 

[laistrogian]

Wow, the interesting things about this for me were that (1) rubber asymmetry was more common than I would have suspected, so this suggests my entire premise for this thread was wrong, (2) how many people in German league used various ESN rubbers, more than I expected, and (3) what a large number of pro players in German league use ST handles.

I thought just due to how european players' hands are generally bigger, they tend to prefer ST handles. As for how people in EU leagues use different rubbers than tenergy, I think it's just due to how BTY sponsorship is hard to get in the first place and tenergy isn't a cheap rubber buy by your own / club's money every 2 weeks

 

[Baal]

I thought just due to how european players' hands are generally bigger, they tend to prefer ST handles.

Perhaps.

On the other hand, ST handles are not really larger, and some European players that I know use ST handles do not have big hands (Kreanga, also some of the ST handles shown above belonged to women). Also, pretty much all of the top Chinese use FL handles and some of those guys are not exactly short (WLQ for example). I think it might be that ST handles are useful for people who make larger grip changes between FH and BH (which certainly would explain Boll and Ovtcharov). Probably I am once again overthinking this and relying on my own experience too much. Actually Ovtcharov somewhere, maybe on a podcast here (?) mentioned that that was the reason he liked round ST handles, defenders who twiddle often use ST, but that may not be the reason for everyone. ST handles are very hard to find in China (and increasingly in the US if you want a Butterfly blade since Butterfly USA in their wisdom tends not to stock them).

I am sure your explanation is correct for the use of non-Tenergy, though. Also, the ESN rubbers are definitely very good now.

 

[Shuki]

Perhaps.

Actually Ovtcharov somewhere, maybe on a podcast here (?) mentioned that that was the reason he liked round ST handles, defenders who twiddle often use ST, but that may not be the reason for everyone. ST handles are very hard to find in China (and increasingly in the US if you want a Butterfly blade since Butterfly USA in their wisdom tends not to stock them).

Dima explains this in his "backhand tutorial video part 2" on his YouTube channel

 

[yuri.saldon]

Perhaps.

On the other hand, ST handles are not really larger, and some European players that I know use ST handles do not have big hands (Kreanga, also some of the ST handles shown above belonged to women). Also, pretty much all of the top Chinese use FL handles and some of those guys are not exactly short (WLQ for example). I think it might be that ST handles are useful for people who make larger grip changes between FH and BH (which certainly would explain Boll and Ovtcharov). Probably I am once again overthinking this and relying on my own experience too much. Actually Ovtcharov somewhere, maybe on a podcast here (?) mentioned that that was the reason he liked round ST handles, defenders who twiddle often use ST, but that may not be the reason for everyone. ST handles are very hard to find in China (and increasingly in the US if you want a Butterfly blade since Butterfly USA in their wisdom tends not to stock them).

I am sure your explanation is correct for the use of non-Tenergy, though. Also, the ESN rubbers are definitely very good now.

My coach said exactly this, Europeans use st handle because they change the grip a lot.

But in Ma long coaching video was explained he don't have big grip change to make fh/BH transition easier

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

 

[Baal]

I have been playing TT since 1969 and I still struggle sometimes with how much to change my grip on BH.

 

[NextLevel]

Ma Long's current grip change from forehand to backhand, while easy to execute, is now fairly significant.

 

[Baal]

Ma Long's current grip change from forehand to backhand, while easy to execute, is now fairly significant.

I've noticed that too, and I can hit my BH stronger when I use the grip he does, but I feel like I sort of lose control trying to make the transitions.

 

[NextLevel]

I've noticed that too, and I can hit my BH stronger when I use the grip he does, but I feel like I sort of lose control trying to make the transitions.

Your index finger is off the paddle - that may be the reason. That said, it is a very quick and relatively easy rotation IMO. I think Freitas does it as well. I have a video I made on it a while back. Might share it if someone pays me enough.

 

[ttmonster]

How much are we talking about ?

Your index finger is off the paddle - that may be the reason. That said, it is a very quick and relatively easy rotation IMO. I think Freitas does it as well. I have a video I made on it a while back. Might share it if someone pays me enough.

 

[fais]

This is something I have been thinking about for awhile.
My theory challenges that idea. It says that while in isolation one rubber may seem to fit a certain stroke better, the fact that you have different rubbers on each side adds to the computational complexity your brain's sensorimotor systems have to do, and therefore contributes to making more errors. I would add that using the the same rubber on each may cause strokes on each side to become more similar.

While I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, I do disagree with this premise. It has been my realization over the years that there is a strong overlay between pattern recognition and high speed reactionary performances. Human beings are remarkable at recognizing patterns. Be it faces, silhouettes, color gradients, It would seem we have evolved in in a way to recognize well.. better. Why is it that human beings can perform calculations such as projecting trajectories, reading spins, etc exceedingly fast? Because we don't and it only appears so! We are habitual creatures, who get better at things via iterative processes (such as drills, drills and more drills and, experience), as such getting good at sports like baseball or ping pong for us is about long term pattern recognition (we recognize arcs not because we are projecting the velocites/accelerations forward in time, rather because we've seen it before!). The difference between the experienced pro and the first timer is just that, the first timer is trying to crunch numbers, where as the pro has already done that math.

So you are probably wondering how does this tie in to my counter argument for the said premise. Because there is no added complexity! Getting used to a different backhand rubber than a forehand rubber is the same as the same rubber for both hands. In both cases you are recognizing, absorbing and internalizing two separate patterns, one for each hand. In the beginning, when we are building our tables in our memory, and we are relying on calculations to predict cause/effect then perhaps. But once it becomes habitual, it doesn't matter because in either cases you are establishing two different habits, one for your forehand and one for your backhand.

As proof of what I am saying, and something that clarifies the base case for your argument (I do agree, added complexity is real), consider the following cases - Kenta Metsudaira's tomohawk serve, left handed players, Zhang Jike's flicks, all these (and more) have one thing in common. Unknown variables. We struggle against left handed players or pips out players because we practice more against the opposite. When KM hit the scene, a lot of the pros (including the spin maestro Ma Lin) struggled, because he/they jhadn;t dealt with it before. I may be wrong, but didn't pioneer Zhang Jike the heavy reliance on flick returns? All these were new factors that pulled players (at the time) out of their routines and had them rely on calculations resulting complexity complication you mentioned.

My point is that while yes, there is such a thing as sensorimotor overloading (for lack of better words), the result is not from different rubbers, but rather from switching/twiddling rubbers. As long as external variables are limited, we can reduce the problem down to a memory that we can pull from our table (memory bank), but with new variables are introduced, we are back to stage one - fumbling due to sensorimotor complexity.

Also, one good thing about high speed sports, the reduction in time can also reduce the influence of external variables resulting in lesser environmental fluctuations, and actually make things simpler!

 

[NextLevel]

How much are we talking about ?

Check your PM. I hook my buddies up.

 

[ttmonster]

Of course you do ...

Check your PM. I hook my buddies up.

 

[ttmonster]

Thank you ...

Check your PM. I hook my buddies up.