Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[ben1229]

Light salt water will help during play.

 

[gordonluvsu]

For organizing, sorting and prioritizing things to improve, i have come up with this "Priority List".
Its pretty self-explanatory.
Important and urgent stuff into Cat. 1.
Important and helpful, but not so urgent and drastic things into Cat. 2.
Things that I can eventually work on, but not now go into Cat. 3.

Category 1: Super Important!
e.g. :

Stand lower and use more of your body
Footwork and mini-steps
Returning long serves

Category 2: Helpful and Useful!

Backhand placement and adjusting technique
Forehand loop backswing
Active blocking with spin

Category 3: Sometime Later!

Backhand flip on flat, very spinny serves
Chop Block

You can sort advice, tips, or any part of your game that needs some work, into this list.
It is useful for me, might help you as well.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hi @dingyibvs ,

I notice with myself that my cramps come from heavy exertion over long time in the day... so if I ball real hard 3+ hours on one day or three days in a row... I will get cramps anytime at evening or worse, like you after I am in bed and slept a little.

NO FUN to wake up with severe cramp that gets worse and also spreads to another muscle when you try to get up !! Sometimes it is a calf cramp and I get up and now severe hamstring or quad cramp.

Drinking a lot of water seems to flush my minerals out of body and the key one I am short is Magnesium. A big meal can also deplete my mineral stores... so a day or three of long TT with much water followed by big sit down meal is a bad combo for cramps.

When I am in big multi day tourneys, I space out doses of magnesium throughout match day and drink one .5 l bottle of water with a pack of fizzy vita C powder (also has baking soda in it) for every 2 .5l bottles I drink and I seem to maitain well.

My problems happen when I am not in a big tourney and it is easy to not pay attention to the body.

When I do get cramps, I take several tablets of Magnesium - Calcium - Zinc - Vita D... USALLY relief within minutes.

I have also seen some say even sniffing or ingesting some apple cider vinegar works too... the study said it affects a region of the brain that tells body to stop the cramp.

My understanding of muscle cramps is, the biggest factor is the amount of rest your body does or does not have. When you are seriously tired, muscles cramp up.

But whatever works for you to make them go away when they appear is good. Even if it is based on Old Der_Ecte tales.

 

[Der_Echte]

100 for 100 in prevention and treatment does not lie....but what the heck, magnesium and bear sweat may cure many conditions.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

BTW: I am not against the placebo effect and I am not against using something that works for you no matter how it works. But the story that muscle cramps are the result of electrolyte (mineral) depletion (sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium and manganese), scientific studies show those are not the cause of the muslce cramping. But adding the electrolytes back into your system (because they do get depleted during daily life and especially during exercise), is always good for you.

Physical exhaustion which could be because of extended periods of exertion, not enough sleep, or a combination of those and other factors, is shown to be the primary cause of muscle cramping.

As Der_Echte said, when you are really tired, they will happen while you are sleeping as well. If you get a real, full night of sleep, they will likely not happen during the first part of your day.

 

[dingyibvs]

BTW: I am not against the placebo effect and I am not against using something that works for you no matter how it works. But the story that muscle cramps are the result of electrolyte (mineral) depletion (sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium and manganese), scientific studies show those are not the cause of the muslce cramping. But adding the electrolytes back into your system (because they do get depleted during daily life and especially during exercise), is always good for you.

Physical exhaustion which could be because of extended periods of exertion, not enough sleep, or a combination of those and other factors, is shown to be the primary cause of muscle cramping.

As Der_Echte said, when you are really tired, they will happen while you are sleeping as well. If you get a real, full night of sleep, they will likely not happen during the first part of your day.

This article suggests otherwise.

Water intake after dehydration makes muscles more susceptible to cramp but electrolytes reverse that effect

No previous study has compared water and oral rehydration solution (ORS) intake after dehydration induced by exercise in the heat for the effect on muscle cramps. The present study tested the hypothesis that water ingestion after dehydration would increase ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The cause for muscle cramps is likely multifactorial, but it appears likely that electrolyte loss through sweating followed by rehydration and thus dilution of intravascular electrolytes is contributory. This theory makes sense on a couple of practical levels as well. For one, it's known that hyponatremia and hypomagnesemia can cause cramping. We don't lose a lot of magnesium in sweat, so I do suspect that sodium plays a bigger role. For two, two of my cramps were on my left upper and lower intercostal muscles. Being a right hander with a lot of footwork and body usage, those were among the least fatigued muscles on my body, suggesting something other than muscle fatigue is at play.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This article suggests otherwise.

Water intake after dehydration makes muscles more susceptible to cramp but electrolytes reverse that effect

No previous study has compared water and oral rehydration solution (ORS) intake after dehydration induced by exercise in the heat for the effect on muscle cramps. The present study tested the hypothesis that water ingestion after dehydration would increase ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The cause for muscle cramps is likely multifactorial, but it appears likely that electrolyte loss through sweating followed by rehydration and thus dilution of intravascular electrolytes is contributory. This theory makes sense on a couple of practical levels as well. For one, it's known that hyponatremia and hypomagnesemia can cause cramping. We don't lose a lot of magnesium in sweat, so I do suspect that sodium plays a bigger role. For two, two of my cramps were on my left upper and lower intercostal muscles. Being a right hander with a lot of footwork and body usage, those were among the least fatigued muscles on my body, suggesting something other than muscle fatigue is at play.

Yeah. I have seen a lot of research that suggest that. And then, a lot that suggests that no conclusions can be drawn. I would have to find the sources for what I said and I am lazy. But the best research on the subject I have seen is that there is no conclusive evidence that the electrolyte theory is correct. I believed it for years. I am not so sure any more.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yeah. I have seen a lot of research that suggest that. And then, a lot that suggests that no conclusions can be drawn. I would have to find the sources for what I said and I am lazy. But the best research on the subject I have seen is that there is no conclusive evidence that the electrolyte theory is correct. I believed it for years. I am not so sure any more.

There's more to learn about this of course. In another study, while electrolyte solution was superior to water, a lot of participants still developed cramps despite receiving repletion equivalent to losses.

The study above did cite multiple other studies, and they've done a more exhaustive literature search than I have obviously, so I do believe the when they say that the particular circumstance they investigated has not been sufficiently explored.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

There's more to learn about this of course. In another study, while electrolyte solution was superior to water, a lot of participants still developed cramps despite receiving repletion equivalent to losses.

The study above did cite multiple other studies, and they've done a more exhaustive literature search than I have obviously, so I do believe the when they say that the particular circumstance they investigated has not been sufficiently explored.

And the studies I saw, that led me to the simplified statement....I am not sure if they were saying that electrolyte replacement would take too long to effect cramping during an event. But it sounded like the conclusions were that it is not entirely clear that the depletion of electrolytes were the actual cause of the cramping. That some people are more prone to cramping than others. And that, when someone is sleep deprived or physically exhausted for some other reason, cramping is exponentially more likely whether there has been electrolyte depletion or not.

However, regardless of the cause of cramping or the people who are more or less likely to cramp up in their day or while playing TT, if you are electrolyte depleted, it makes sense to put them back into your system.

When I saw the comparison of studies on the subject, it was a few years ago and I am just a little to lazy to go look for it. But the information the guy gave comparing studies was pretty interesting.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Suxs man! Today an old timer serve a half long to my BH corner and I attempted a topspin open up on his serve and my rubber hit the edge of the table.

😭😭😭

 

[IB66]

And the studies I saw, that led me to the simplified statement....I am not sure if they were saying that electrolyte replacement would take too long to effect cramping during an event. But it sounded like the conclusions were that it is not entirely clear that the depletion of electrolytes were the actual cause of the cramping. That some people are more prone to cramping than others. And that, when someone is sleep deprived or physically exhausted for some other reason, cramping is exponentially more likely whether there has been electrolyte depletion or not.

However, regardless of the cause of cramping or the people who are more or less likely to cramp up in their day or while playing TT, if you are electrolyte depleted, it makes sense to put them back into your system.

When I saw the comparison of studies on the subject, it was a few years ago and I am just a little to lazy to go look for it. But the information the guy gave comparing studies was pretty interesting.

There appears to be many reasons why cramps happen, sometimes it can be an underlying issue like nerves, pinching a nerve or sciatica. A minor case of sciatica could result in a muscle cramp without any noticeable pain at the point of the slightly trapped nerve.
I remember being told that cramping up can also be a mechanism to stop injury or further injury??
Calcium can also build up where the muscles overlay each other, the term 'having a knot' in a muscle. My physio told me that the outer edges of muscles are a little like Velcro, so they 'knot' together and there is a calcium build up that occurs.
Sometimes they use acupuncture to break up the smaller Calcium deposits. A 'Sports Massage' with deep massage also helps to loosen up the knots, break up the calcium and Velcro effect.
I've never had a muscle cramp up during play, well that's a lie thinking about it!! when I was young I'd get a stomach 'stitch' when playing football !!!
I usually get cramp after I've played, toes a lot, calf and thigh occasionally. Stomach very rarely.

 

[Brs]

Suxs man! Today an old timer serve a half long to my BH corner and I attempted a topspin open up on his serve and my rubber hit the edge of the table.View attachment 28711View attachment 28712View attachment 28713
😭😭😭

Sadness

 

[NextLevel]

Sadness

That's completely normal, don't baby him! Now hitting your wrist on the table or breaking your blade, that is sadness

 

[Jslick89]

Light salt water will help during play.

I used to pop salt tabs before playing soccer. thanks for the friendly reminder to start adding this to my TT routine. I thankfully do not really suffer cramps but the salt tabs do help with the hydration and feeling good a lot.

 

[ben1229]

I used to pop salt tabs before playing soccer. thanks for the friendly reminder to start adding this to my TT routine. I thankfully do not really suffer cramps but the salt tabs do help with the hydration and feeling good a lot.

Cause I also play soccer at my young age.

 

[dingyibvs]

Suxs man! Today an old timer serve a half long to my BH corner and I attempted a topspin open up on his serve and my rubber hit the edge of the table.View attachment 28711View attachment 28712View attachment 28713
😭😭😭

Seems like a perfect time to switch to anti....

 

[Der_Echte]

My cramps always come after prolonged extra-heavy explosive exertion and seem to be exasperated by poor mineral maintenance. They could be worse if I had several days poor rest... but I get bad ones at night after real heavy hours long exertion.

I do not think I am contrasting Carl very much if at all... mine are to me primarily a result of extreme prolonged heavy exertion compounded by rest/mineralization.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Seems like a perfect time to switch to anti....

Divine intervention?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Suxs man! Today an old timer serve a half long to my BH corner and I attempted a topspin open up on his serve and my rubber hit the edge of the table.View attachment 28711View attachment 28712View attachment 28713
😭😭😭

The good news here is that the damaged part of the rubber is nowhere near where you should be hitting the ball. So this should have zero impact on your play using that rubber. Ignore it.

Unless you play in a league where they tell you you can't use that rubber, it makes no difference.

 

[blahness]

Played again after almost a week. My ball feeling pretty much went down the drain especially serve/receive but somehow still played well. I figured out a way to really punish fast quality pendulum serves down the line to my wide FH even when I'm completely caught off guard. Previously I can only feel comfortable looping back down the line which became very predictable over time. This time I figured out how to show the body position for the down the line loop but use the wrist action to make it a fast diagonal loop with sidespin. In essence this ensures that I can decide where to go at the last second.