Swedish Open 2015

[TableTennisDaily]

NOW LIVE! Xu Xin vs Fan Zhendong! Mens final at the Swedish Open! Live streaming here: http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/ittfstream.php?do=ittf

Tune in and join us in the chat

 

[TableTennisDaily]

What a shot! Fan Zhendong goes around the net!

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="5" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50.0% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAAGFBMVEUiIiI9PT0eHh4gIB4hIBkcHBwcHBwcHBydr+JQAAAACHRSTlMABA4YHyQsM5jtaMwAAADfSURBVDjL7ZVBEgMhCAQBAf//42xcNbpAqakcM0ftUmFAAIBE81IqBJdS3lS6zs3bIpB9WED3YYXFPmHRfT8sgyrCP1x8uEUxLMzNWElFOYCV6mHWWwMzdPEKHlhLw7NWJqkHc4uIZphavDzA2JPzUDsBZziNae2S6owH8xPmX8G7zzgKEOPUoYHvGz1TBCxMkd3kwNVbU0gKHkx+iZILf77IofhrY1nYFnB/lQPb79drWOyJVa/DAvg9B/rLB4cC+Nqgdz/TvBbBnr6GBReqn/nRmDgaQEej7WhonozjF+Y2I/fZou/qAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://instagram.com/p/-HJikrLaYA/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">Incredible around the net by Fan Zhendong! #SwedishOpenFinal</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A video posted by TableTennisDaily (@tabletennisdaily) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2015-11-15T16:11:30+00:00">Nov 15, 2015 at 8:11am PST</time></p></div></blockquote>
<script async defer src="//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js"></script>

 

[Kino Chan]

Just heard that the commentator said that Fan Zhendong could be the nr 1 in the world next month by winning the Polish open and Swedish open. Really unbelievable. To shame that Ma Long was injured at Polish open. I would like to see the rematch of Fan zhendong against ML After the world cup finale.

 

[brabhamista]

In most Swedish dialects, certainly where I lived anyway (northern suburbs of Stockholm), and maybe everywhere, the g at the end of ---berg would be pronounced like English y, as in "bery". Sort of. The actual sound is somewhere between a short and long y in English, at least where I lived. Also Swedish word for their own country Sverige, is pronounced like "Sver-i-a".

Perhaps pronouncing the soft "g" is similar to the English "y" as in "very" or "berry" in the northern suburbs of Stockholm. I don't know as I'm not familiar with those local sub-dialects, but in the rest of Sweden and in standardised Swedish pron it's pronounced like the "y" in "yes". That said, your knowledge and understanding of Swedish is very good

The soft "K" in "Källberg" is referred to as the "tj" sound in Swedish and the soft "g" is referred to as the "j" sound.
You guys can listen to the sounds and see their weirdly varied spelling possibilities on this page:
http://www2.hhs.se/isa/swedish/chap9.htm
Just scroll down to the "j" and "tj" sound samples.

I'll try to do a pron guide to Swedish player names in a few days and upload a sound file for TTD members to listen to

 

[Baal]

Now that you mention it, "----bear-ye" is actually a better approximation to the sound used to pronounce the name of the little commune of Enebyberg near where we lived when I was a kid. I was trying to describe it as between a long and short y in ENglish, but your description is much better. Probably because you are actually Swedish!

I haven't been to Sweden in about five years now. I miss it (but not so much this time of year).

 

[TTFrenzy]

Yes, although I am a fan of Mizutani I never supposed he can beat Liang Jingkun. Out of the 3 mentioned chinese players Jingkun has the best season IMO.

Mizutani is great against europeans, his consistency is immense but he lacks power in both wings, in comparison to the top chinese of course. Lets not forget that the chinese always study possible threats so LJK had top coaching also. He just plays too safe against them and is not explosive enough. Another youngster has also beaten him last year in japan open I think convincingly although a "debatable" edge ball blew jun's confidence away. LJK beating jun is not a surprise imho, surprise is if jun can finally beat a chinese player, his only win I think was against ma lin a couple of years ago when ma lin lost his serve on 3-3 10-9.

 

[TTFrenzy]

lol my bad! actually jun has beaten liang jing kun in 2014 japan open 4-1, now thats definitely a surprise

 

[NextLevel]

lol my bad! actually jun has beaten liang jing kun in 2014 japan open 4-1, now thats definitely a surprise

People show a lot of disrespect for Mizutani's game so I am not surprised. For all Mizutani's lack of power, he would be a CNT player if he was Chinese. Mizutani also beat Zhou Yu a year or two ago too.

 

[sirius13phobos]

Does anyone think that Marco Freitas have a chance?

He is great player. Look at his statistic for last few years. I think he has chance

 

[TTFrenzy]

People show a lot of disrespect for Mizutani's game so I am not surprised. For all Mizutani's lack of power, he would be a CNT player if he was Chinese. Mizutani also beat Zhou Yu a year or two ago too.

Well he was given a chance in CTTSL but he didnt perform as expected. I dont think if he was chinese he would be CNT, but thats just an assumption, what Im trying to say is , if he was chinese he would be more explosive and with more effective FH technique (lol inception) . I really admire Jun for how smart he is and true fighter, his game against Dima in world cup was really showing his full potential. But somehow I think his fans got frustrated seeing him without a breakthrough or winning something big. It was his 4th world cup and he ended up 4th place, thats certainly an achievement in terms of consistency but it also seems like a "curse"

 

[NextLevel]

Well he was given a chance in CTTSL but he didnt perform as expected. I dont think if he was chinese he would be CNT, but thats just an assumption, what Im trying to say is , if he was chinese he would be more explosive and with more effective FH technique (lol inception) . I really admire Jun for how smart he is and true fighter, his game against Dima in world cup was really showing his full potential. But somehow I think his fans got frustrated seeing him without a breakthrough or winning something big. It was his 4th world cup and he ended up 4th place, thats certainly an achievement in terms of consistency but it also seems like a "curse"

Yeah, given a chance 5 years ago. We should have give Ovtcharov a chance 5 years ago.

Mizutani is one of the best players (serve, serve return and third ball) in the world, same as Koki Niwa. You have to have the level of play to deconstruct that part of the game before you even get into the rally. Of course, when the CNT and the Germans are analyzing his game and breaking it apart and we see him lose to CNT so often, it is easy for us to comment on his weaknesses as if Jingkun did not have a major breakthrough beating Mizutani. Where Niwa uses blocking for defence, Mizutani prefers to lob/fish. Power not everything in this sport - it is just one thing that separates players among others.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Yeah, given a chance 5 years ago. We should have give Ovtcharov a chance 5 years ago.

Mizutani is one of the best players (serve, serve return and third ball) in the world, same as Koki Niwa. You have to have the level of play to deconstruct that part of the game before you even get into the rally. Of course, when the CNT and the Germans are analyzing his game and breaking it apart and we see him lose to CNT so often, it is easy for us to comment on his weaknesses as if Jingkun did not have a major breakthrough beating Mizutani. Where Niwa uses blocking for defence, Mizutani prefers to lob/fish. Power not everything in this sport - it is just one thing that separates players among others.

Its certainly not everything but sadly as the game has evolved to be more physical, explosive attacks and countertopspins are more effective than blocks or fishing. The chinese have somehow "robotized" the game and their philosohpy is quite obvious: "If we can topspin and take the initiative to attack with power first, then whatever the opponent does, our probabilities of winning are higher"

In terms of serve receive 3rd ball, Jun would probably be one of the best in the world with the old rules, but in the last 10-15 years I think players like timo boll kong linqhui wang liqin wang hao and zhang jike have dominated the game, mostly because of their rallying abilities their serve and receive was quite simple and nothing special if you ask me. Same thing goes for liang jingkun and FZD and even the swedes have produced more power players, the two karlssons and kallberg for example

Of course the banana receive is a novelty but I think delicate touch players like ma long jun and niwa as you said , are maybe in disadvantage as the game has gone more physical. The last game between jun and dima is a perfect example, Jun totally dominated Dima with his serve played much smarter in the first 3 balls, but in the end Dima won and most of his points were topspin exchanges. No creativity, no instinct free play, no smart blocks to the body or down the line just brute force topspins. TT needs players like niwa or jun to give a different flavor to the game, matsudaira withs his crazy blocks is another example.

In the end I find it somehow boring if everybody produces topspin machines

 

[NextLevel]

Its certainly not everything but sadly as the game has evolved to be more physical, explosive attacks and countertopspins are more effective than blocks or fishing. The chinese have somehow "robotized" the game and their philosohpy is quite obvious: "If we can topspin and take the initiative to attack with power first, then whatever the opponent does, our probabilities of winning are higher"

In terms of serve receive 3rd ball, Jun would probably be one of the best in the world with the old rules, but in the last 10-15 years I think players like timo boll kong linqhui wang liqin wang hao and zhang jike have dominated the game, mostly because of their rallying abilities their serve and receive was quite simple and nothing special if you ask me. Same thing goes for liang jingkun and FZD and even the swedes have produced more power players, the two karlssons and kallberg for example

Of course the banana receive is a novelty but I think delicate touch players like ma long jun and niwa as you said , are maybe in disadvantage as the game has gone more physical. The last game between jun and dima is a perfect example, Jun totally dominated Dima with his serve played much smarter in the first 3 balls, but in the end Dima won and most of his points were topspin exchanges. No creativity, no instinct free play, no smart blocks to the body or down the line just brute force topspins. TT needs players like niwa or jun to give a different flavor to the game, matsudaira withs his crazy blocks is another example.

In the end I find it somehow boring if everybody produces topspin machines

I disagree a bit here, as all these players have very strong serve and receive, receive especially - after all, that is the list of the best serve returners in the world. It's all relative to each other that we can say their serve/receive is weak. But even that said, you have to get past the serve and receive of these top players before athleticism comes into play. They don't win because of athleticism - athleticism is one separator. Today, you just can't use extreme touch as your focus. Jun Mizutani is #6 in the world - listening to what you write, someone would think he was #30.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Well, I didnt say weak but "simple", ma long and mizutani have definitely more "tricky" and deceptive serves than zhang jike or wang hao or kong. Now for zhang to get to the rally with jun or ma long is easy, cause he has played them so many times and analyzed them thoroughly he can adapt really fast compared to a top European player

Now as for athleticism, its not the only factor yes, but once you have surpassed the obstacle of serve & receive against a player who is much more creative than you (ma long, Jun, liu guoliang you name it) and you are more explosive than him like Dima or Zhang or FZD then you definitely have an advantage because the game is now in your field of expertise which is the rally. Zhang got his ass kicked countless times by Ma long untill he eventually learned how to adapt to ma long serve and creative play in general

 

[NextLevel]

Well, I didnt say weak but "simple", ma long and mizutani have definitely more "tricky" and deceptive serves than zhang jike or wang hao or kong. Now for zhang to get to the rally with jun or ma long is easy, cause he has played them so many times and analyzed them thoroughly he can adapt really fast compared to a top European player

Now as for athleticism, its not the only factor yes, but once you have surpassed the obstacle of serve & receive against a player who is much more creative than you (ma long, Jun, liu guoliang you name it) and you are more explosive than him like Dima or Zhang or FZD then you definitely have an advantage because the game is now in your field of expertise which is the rally. Zhang got his ass kicked countless times by Ma long untill he eventually learned how to adapt to ma long serve and creative play in general

Now you are talking. Which is why like I said, people should stop acting like Liang Jingkun beating Jun Mizutani is no big deal. To get to that level is very hard, even among CNT players.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Well I meant that in the first place, but sometimes dont know how to use english words accurately enough and fail to realise that other readers most of the time wont understand what I want to say int the first place

So all in all what Im pointing out here is that, no matter how creative you are on your serves the new 40 + ball and no hidden serve rule is giving an advantage to players who are more phusical than you and with better rallying abilities (ma lin wang liqin another example). Of course ma longs poor mentality is a bigger factor on why he didnt reach the final 3 times, but mostly Im talking about the general picture of the game. Something like waldner stated in his interview about the game being more "robotic" nowdays

 

[NextLevel]

Well I meant that in the first place, but sometimes dont know how to use english words accurately enough and fail to realise that other readers most of the time wont understand what I want to say int the first place

So all in all what Im pointing out here is that, no matter how creative you are on your serves the new 40 + ball and no hidden serve rule is giving an advantage to players who are more phusical than you. Of course ma longs poor mentality is a bigger factor on why he didnt reach the final 3 times, but mostly Im talking about the general picture of the game. Something like waldner stated in his interview about the game being more "robotic" nowdays

I know what you mean, but you have gone back to overstating it. Strength has always been an advantage - many people don't realize this but Waldner was a very fit player during his very best performances. But it is just one kind of advantage - spin manipulation, control/placement, spin generation etc. are all advantages. Today, it is easier to counter the serve spin manipulation advantage, but it is still a huge advantage and lower level players still have to work to reach that level/.

I was watching Xu Xin this Swedish Open. He was playing Chuan Chi Yuan. CCY was playing much faster than Xu Xin - I was impressed and thought XX was in trouble. So what did XXdo? Did he play faster? No! He just stepped back and started counterlooping everything from mid distance. Some of those loops were loops you can only see in horror movies. So much spin. I wanted them to ban that kind of playing, but some people will tell you that mid distance counterlooping is a dead game and you have to play close to the table. But it all depends on who you are talking about!

 

[TTFrenzy]

Well every aspect of the game is related to another aspect. Of course im not saying that playing with brute force close to the table is the way to go but its just how the game has evolved through the years. Delicate touch players have less success ratio in big tournaments, big tournaments of course are a very small depiction of the game. Besides for every good ball there is a perfect "nemesis" counter ball so CCY could have slowed down his loops and then XX would be in trouble. This tactic is used against him many times , especially from ma long

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Ahhhh.....Nostalgia....Sometimes I miss having unknown_pozer around to be irrational, bait people, try and start arguments, and call everyone RoboNazties and just be a general trouble maker talking about the 1998 Aspect Ratio Ban and whining about how, if it wasn't for that Ban that Joo See Hyuk would have won umpteen World Championships and Olympic Golds.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, he was actually pretty annoying. Hahaha.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

 

[TTFrenzy]

Ahhhh.....Nostalgia....Sometimes I miss having unknown_pozer around to be irrational, bait people, try and start arguments, and call everyone RoboNazties and just be a general trouble maker talking about the 1998 Aspect Ratio Ban and whining about how, if it wasn't for that Ban that Joo See Hyuk would have won umpteen World Championships and Olympic Golds.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, he was actually pretty annoying. Hahaha.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

I think he's even more annoying than the peanut guy although they have different playing styles