Advice to improve my game.

[NextLevel]

Here is another video of my match today against Mark, the same person in my first video more than 2 months ago. I still lost but I felt I did better this time. Please let me know what you think. (Sorry that the camera angle is not good)

Thank you!

Phil,

Well done. Like I said this takes time and patience. Someone like Mark, he uses a very fast blade and blocks the ball very well. He has played and practiced with really good players so he knows how to block quality loops. When I tried to use a Rambo approach to beating him, I would inevitably lose the game and then get back to an approach where I had to set him up and take advantage of his blocking limitations but put the ball to precise places that would make him move and force him to recover to move again to play the next ball. I would not try to drive the ball past him but since he only blocked or smashed, I would spin the ball heavy and build up the spin before going for a put away shot so I rarely attacked hard early in the rally. I would loop one to the middle or to the backhand, get the block and then put the next one on the wide forehand and if he got to that, then go back to the backhand. Sometimes I would keep the ball shorter and go for wider angles. You might not have the control and precision to do these things yet and who knows you may get so good that you don't need to against him. Going into the elbow also helps a lot.

My main point though is that trying to blast the ball past a blocker is a hard way to win because unless you are smashing really flat or with backspin, their blocks will use your spin to move you around unless your spin/power levels exceed their thresholds. And when you go for speed with a topspin, the spin almost never exceeds their thresholds, they just block and you are out of position when the ball comes back. It is better to spin the ball slowly and then whatever they do, if your first ball is heavy, you can use the existing spin on the ball, which will usually also bounce higher with his block to spin/drive the ball harder to an easier spot on the table. Trying to break through on the first shot often will take you off balance and leave you open to being blocked out of position.

So keep up the good work, be patient, try to realize that table tennis is as much judo and boxing as it is rock-breaking and don't think that power is everything. Placement and spin (including spin variation) sometimes count for as much if not more. Mark is really experienced with good touch so he knows how to get you to play into his blocks on his terms. If you gain experience and work with the right strategic mindset, you will find ways to beat him based on how it is best to beat blockers. But it might be longer than you would like, especially if you are trying to blast through him all the time. Learn to play shots that get good quality but keep you ready to play 3 or 4 shots to precise spots on the table in order to win the point. Trying to go for one shot when the ball isn't going to hit the precise spot on the table that Mark cannot touch is a losing approach until you get to a level of spin that it won't matter (but this level is much harder to get to with the new ball).

Good luck and well done!

 

[PhilT]

Thank @blahness and @NextLevel . Your comments are spot on!

@blahness My backhand is much weaker side. I often avoid it by staying too close to the left corner and got punished when they put the ball to my right wide open corner.

@NextLevel What you said are exactly what I experienced during the match. There were countless number of times I got out of possition after my fast attacks were blocked. My slow spinny loops had much better success rate but my technique is not good enough to vary the loop speed and spin at will yet, as you correctly mentioned.

And my loops always go cross table. Even though I kept reminding myself to go down the line but I just couldn't do it during points. It is probably because of both, my technique and habit.

I will focus on my backhand and ball placement next.

Thank you!

 

[NextLevel]

Phil, at every level, it is very hard for a one sided forehand player to beat a consistent blocker, especially one who knows how to move the forehand player around. Especially with this new ball, blocking is much easier so you need to be able to hit more shots to win points.

For forehand players like you, the most common mistake that is made with the backhand is that they want their backhand to be as powerful and spinny as their forehand from day 1. This is a huge mistake. It is not impossible as a goal but it is a huge mistake to want it on day one or even in year one. What you need to focus on is making the backhand either spinny or consistent or both spinny and consistent as possible. Then use it in footwork drills to keep the rally going in transition. When you get good spin, the power will come with more practice. But if you don't get the spin, and go for power , you will get frustrated and never trust the backhand under pressure. But if you develop the spin and consistency, then you can figure out when the power opportunities are available. And there are many good players who start out as forehand players but sometimes with good coaching develop backhands that are technically more advanced than their forehands.

Thank @blahness and @NextLevel . Your comments are spot on!

@blahness My backhand is much weaker side. I often avoid it by staying too close to the left corner and got punished when they put the ball to my right wide open corner.

@NextLevel What you said are exactly what I experienced during the match. There were countless number of times I got out of possition after my fast attacks were blocked. My slow spinny loops had much better success rate but my technique is not good enough to vary the loop speed and spin at will yet, as you correctly mentioned.

And my loops always go cross table. Even though I kept reminding myself to go down the line but I just couldn't do it during points. It is probably because of both, my technique and habit.

I will focus on my backhand and ball placement next.

Thank you!

 

[blahness]

Thank @blahness and @NextLevel . Your comments are spot on!

@blahness My backhand is much weaker side. I often avoid it by staying too close to the left corner and got punished when they put the ball to my right wide open corner.

@NextLevel What you said are exactly what I experienced during the match. There were countless number of times I got out of possition after my fast attacks were blocked. My slow spinny loops had much better success rate but my technique is not good enough to vary the loop speed and spin at will yet, as you correctly mentioned.

And my loops always go cross table. Even though I kept reminding myself to go down the line but I just couldn't do it during points. It is probably because of both, my technique and habit.

I will focus on my backhand and ball placement next.

Thank you!

Yes, in this era BH is equally important or even more important to develop. I think playing this blocker, you probably realised that if you pivot he's gonna burn you on the wide FH (which he did many times). Unless you have shot quality on the FH that opponents cannot control, pivoting is usually not ideal.

For BH I think your arm stroke structure is fine (from what I see at 38 sec), what is really lacking is the power from the hips with the leg drive. You may need to experiment a bit to unlock it. But you have a robot so I think you can figure it out quite quickly.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Hi phil
you have definitely improved quite a bit.
The essence of your tactical problem with Mark, is that he is able to move you around while remaining flat footed himself. You move well, but you need to learn to make him move.
Serving
serve from bh corner short backspin to his fh then push or punch his return either breaking his bh sideline or deep to his middle.
Practice bh to bh punch and block concentrating on breaking his bh sideline. Once this is working you should step. around and play fh again wide into his bh. This will be uncomfortable for you but you need to find ways of establishing this direction of play.
There are quite a few examples of pushing long from both side where you could put opponent under pressure by playing your push short, off the bounce, pulling mark in to then punching him back.
if you can learn to bh block anywhere on the table alternating soft and short with sharp and punchy your tactical play will improve.
conclusion
good things with your fh
but
pushing and blocking still too passive. Learn to put those shots anywhere on the table as a priority.
If you can find some one who wants to develop his footwork while you learn to acquire Mark's skills it would be ideal
good luck

 

[PhilT]

Hi Everyone,

My tennis elbow (from playing tennnis 2 years ago) came back so I had to rest for more than two months and couldn't playing much. I also changed to a much lighter setup (Palio CAT + Ak47 ~ 150g). I can get back to practicing regularly now so I like to give an update on two of my latest videos.

I have been working on my forehand loop, backhand blocking/pushing based on many advices here and they are getting more and more consistent especially during practice. I feel very confident on my forehand topspin now and not shy away from rallying with 2000+ player even in mid/long distance away from table. However, my backhand is still weak during match, and it is worse when lifting underspin ball. My worst is when receiving long fast side/under spin to my backhand as seen at the end of this video.

My second video is against a 2000 player. He won most of the points simply by putting a decent ball to my backhand and then put away my weak return. There are a pushing battle in the later half of the video because he only chops to make it easier for me.

Anyway, I guess I need to keep working more on my backhand and hope it will get better soon.

Thank you!

 

[CEYMS]

Try putting your right foot back when playing a forehand, you need to be side on when playing a forehand as most of the power comes from rotating your body. Not your arm.

 

[NextLevel]

Hi Everyone,

My tennis elbow (from playing tennnis 2 years ago) came back so I had to rest for more than two months and couldn't playing much. I also changed to a much lighter setup (Palio CAT + Ak47 ~ 150g). I can get back to practicing regularly now so I like to give an update on two of my latest videos.

I have been working on my forehand loop, backhand blocking/pushing based on many advices here and they are getting more and more consistent especially during practice. I feel very confident on my forehand topspin now and not shy away from rallying with 2000+ player even in mid/long distance away from table. However, my backhand is still weak during match, and it is worse when lifting underspin ball. My worst is when receiving long fast side/under spin to my backhand as seen at the end of this video.

My second video is against a 2000 player. He won most of the points simply by putting a decent ball to my backhand and then put away my weak return. There are a pushing battle in the later half of the video because he only chops to make it easier for me.

Anyway, I guess I need to keep working more on my backhand and hope it will get better soon.

Thank you!

Good to see your progress. A couple of comments that I might expand on later:
Neither your forehand nor your backhand are truly textbook. They are both viable for what they do, but they have limitations for generating truly heavy spin because you are playing too much from the shoulder and not getting the full effect of the whipping of the lower arm/wrist. That said, you can get decent playing this way. But it will be a challenge to improve your spin levels.

Marius has very good touch, I think his family in Europe are mostly choppers. So he isnt entirely doing you a favor by not attacking though his short pips backhand was annoying so he is more dangerous when he attacks. You had some good rallies for sure, it takes some discipline and belief in your stroke and ball control to realize that power isn't everything, placement and slow especially short balls with heavy spin can win points as well.

 

[dingyibvs]

Hi Phil, good to see your progress! You play a lot like me when I started off. I found that I was very comfortable playing against defenders, punching way above my level against them, but I had a lot of trouble against offensive players. Do you have any videos of you playing against an attacker? Someone who basically refuses to push? I think that'd tell us more about your game.

 

[PhilT]

@NextLevel "playing too much from the shoulder" -> did you see I have this problem from my previous videos too? I recently changed my forehand stroke a bit to hit the ball more forward and less sideway (as pointed out by @blahness #37). I am not sure if that is when the problem happened but I feel more consistent with my new stroke.

@dingyibvs : Since I am learning and don't care about winning or loosing at this point so I attack very often even against higher-level players. If I am not able to return their attack well then I will always try to attack first even if I miss often. The only ball that I have to push back is when receiving a short-underspin service going wide to my forehand since my forehand flick is just not good enough yet. But as @NextLevel mentioned about the importance of placement and control, I probably will tune down my aggressiveness a bit and work on that aspect of my game. I will try to get another video to show soon.

I am also trying to relax my stroke as mentioned by @JJ Ng and others but I just keep forgeting about it sometimes. One thing I know I do well now is to relax my grip and it helps to relieve my arm's pain.

Thank you!

 

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel "playing too much from the shoulder" -> did you see I have this problem from my previous videos too? I recently changed my forehand stroke a bit to hit the ball more forward and less sideway (as pointed out by @blahness #37). I am not sure if that is when the problem happened but I feel more consistent with my new stroke.

@dingyibvs : Since I am learning and don't care about winning or loosing at this point so I attack very often even against higher-level players. If I am not able to return their attack well then I will always try to attack first even if I miss often. The only ball that I have to push back is when receiving a short-underspin service going wide to my forehand since my forehand flick is just not good enough yet. But as @NextLevel mentioned about the importance of placement and control, I probably will tune down my aggressiveness a bit and work on that aspect of my game. I will try to get another video to show soon.

I am also trying to relax my stroke as mentioned by @JJ Ng and others but I just keep forgeting about it sometimes. One thing I know I do well now is to relax my grip and it helps to relieve my arm's pain.

Thank you!

You don't finish your strokes in "salute" or traditional finishing positions. The salute or traditional finishing positions on forehand and backhand are required to learn optimal whip mechanics and direct your spin and spin efficiently into the ball. Right now these circular motions without efficiently snaps or stopping points are decent spin rallying shots but they are not very efficient at imparting power to the ball. Efficient strokes line up and put power into the ball very well. It is possible to get good with inefficient stroke, it is just much harder especially if you are not a phenomenal athlete, because table tennis being a game with small margins, inefficient hitting costs you a lot in ball quality and consistency. Good technique enables you to put the ball into tight windows under pressure with less practice and more quality. But the main thing is that you aren't hitting the ball efficiently though some of it might be just your equipment. For the tennis elbow, it is best to get some therapy and get stronger depending on how seriously you take the sport. Using lighter equipment has pros and cons. But I suspect you were probably overusing your arm without doing exercises to strengthen the elbow and tendons. Hopefully your current solution is stable.

 

[ben1229]

Wow, happy to see your improvement, keep fighting!

 

[blahness]

Hi Everyone,

My tennis elbow (from playing tennnis 2 years ago) came back so I had to rest for more than two months and couldn't playing much. I also changed to a much lighter setup (Palio CAT + Ak47 ~ 150g). I can get back to practicing regularly now so I like to give an update on two of my latest videos.

I have been working on my forehand loop, backhand blocking/pushing based on many advices here and they are getting more and more consistent especially during practice. I feel very confident on my forehand topspin now and not shy away from rallying with 2000+ player even in mid/long distance away from table. However, my backhand is still weak during match, and it is worse when lifting underspin ball. My worst is when receiving long fast side/under spin to my backhand as seen at the end of this video.

My second video is against a 2000 player. He won most of the points simply by putting a decent ball to my backhand and then put away my weak return. There are a pushing battle in the later half of the video because he only chops to make it easier for me.

Anyway, I guess I need to keep working more on my backhand and hope it will get better soon.

Thank you!

Yeah, the 1st guy resorted to no toss illegal serves to win the match, shame on him! If anyone did this to me I would simply leave my left hand up for much longer to hide my serve too - tit for tat.

Those no toss illegal long serves can have some insane spin variation. I already can see pendulum sideunder and hook sideunder in those serves you missed. You probably didn't read the sidespin direction correctly even - I didn't see you adjust the contact points appropriately (more left against the hook, back+ even slightly bottom against pendulum which is why you missed it. But I gotta admit it's hard to receive these kind of illegal serves.

 

[dingyibvs]

@NextLevel "playing too much from the shoulder" -> did you see I have this problem from my previous videos too? I recently changed my forehand stroke a bit to hit the ball more forward and less sideway (as pointed out by @blahness #37). I am not sure if that is when the problem happened but I feel more consistent with my new stroke.

@dingyibvs : Since I am learning and don't care about winning or loosing at this point so I attack very often even against higher-level players. If I am not able to return their attack well then I will always try to attack first even if I miss often. The only ball that I have to push back is when receiving a short-underspin service going wide to my forehand since my forehand flick is just not good enough yet. But as @NextLevel mentioned about the importance of placement and control, I probably will tune down my aggressiveness a bit and work on that aspect of my game. I will try to get another video to show soon.

I am also trying to relax my stroke as mentioned by @JJ Ng and others but I just keep forgeting about it sometimes. One thing I know I do well now is to relax my grip and it helps to relieve my arm's pain.

Thank you!

Yes, that was exactly my mindset as well, but that's not what I'm talking about. I want to know how you're doing when you can't be the first one to attack. At higher levels pretty much everyone wants to attack first, that really becomes to name of the game. I want to see what you do when you face someone just as aggressive as you. How do you keep your opponent from attacking? How do you keep your opponent from attacking effectively? How do you defend? And how do you transition from defense to offense?

 

[Nima Abadi]

Hi Everyone,

My tennis elbow (from playing tennnis 2 years ago) came back so I had to rest for more than two months and couldn't playing much. I also changed to a much lighter setup (Palio CAT + Ak47 ~ 150g). I can get back to practicing regularly now so I like to give an update on two of my latest videos.

I have been working on my forehand loop, backhand blocking/pushing based on many advices here and they are getting more and more consistent especially during practice. I feel very confident on my forehand topspin now and not shy away from rallying with 2000+ player even in mid/long distance away from table. However, my backhand is still weak during match, and it is worse when lifting underspin ball. My worst is when receiving long fast side/under spin to my backhand as seen at the end of this video.

My second video is against a 2000 player. He won most of the points simply by putting a decent ball to my backhand and then put away my weak return. There are a pushing battle in the later half of the video because he only chops to make it easier for me.

Anyway, I guess I need to keep working more on my backhand and hope it will get better soon.

Thank you!

Wow, you really have improved. Pretty much everything has gotten better so keep doing what you're doing.

You're getting a lot of great feedback so I only want to add two things, focus on your placement as well. You tend to serve, return, block and loop most of your shots to the middle of the table. Look at all your vids and you can see most of the times your opponents are not moving around as much as you do, that's because of your tendency to play the ball in the middle.

Second, work on your push and actually try to push hard and push to different places. From the videos, you mainly super soft push to just get the ball back on the table.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

hi Phil
you have made great progress which is good to see. all strokes have improved, maybe still a bit stiff in the way you hold the racket. I still see better relaxation as key you to go forward. Apart from that its probably time to start to learn to control the rallies and your opponent using better placement
good luck

 

[PhilT]

Thank everyone for the comments. Relax and placement are the common feedback I got from high level players too. I will definitely focus on those next. My arm is doing ok now but my right knee starts feeling tired and weak, most likely from practice looping & probably being moved too much.
I played at Westchester tournament for the first time last weekend. My opponent in the u1000 final is a beginner too. His strokes are not as consistent nor powerful as mine but they look very good, like a well-trained players. Does anyone know what it is? Are his strokes more relaxed or his form or something else?

@dingyibvs : I played mostly defence in this video so it is a bit related to your questions. However, my op's loops are not very powerful so I let him attack. I made two successfull counters far from the table in the first set so that put a bit pressure on him too.

 

[kindof99]

I would recommend bending your wrist backward to play the backhand and contacting the ball close to your body. For backhand, I think it is better for you to practice to drive with your paddle perpendicular to the incoming ball to have better feel and to borrow more power from the income ball.

 

[dingyibvs]

Thank everyone for the comments. Relax and placement are the common feedback I got from high level players too. I will definitely focus on those next. My arm is doing ok now but my right knee starts feeling tired and weak, most likely from practice looping & probably being moved too much.
I played at Westchester tournament for the first time last weekend. My opponent in the u1000 final is a beginner too. His strokes are not as consistent nor powerful as mine but they look very good, like a well-trained players. Does anyone know what it is? Are his strokes more relaxed or his form or something else?

@dingyibvs : I played mostly defence in this video so it is a bit related to your questions. However, my op's loops are not very powerful so I let him attack. I made two successfull counters far from the table in the first set so that put a bit pressure on him too.

He's not using big movement or much force, but he has the activation sequence in the right order. You see how he accelerates right before contact, that ensures good dwell and spin. You do a solid job with that too, just not using your legs and body enough, and part of that is that you lack the footwork to get into position to use them.

Again though, I advise you to post the full game rather than highlights. The less exciting points are the most exciting to analyze.

 

[NextLevel]

Thank everyone for the comments. Relax and placement are the common feedback I got from high level players too. I will definitely focus on those next. My arm is doing ok now but my right knee starts feeling tired and weak, most likely from practice looping & probably being moved too much.
I played at Westchester tournament for the first time last weekend. My opponent in the u1000 final is a beginner too. His strokes are not as consistent nor powerful as mine but they look very good, like a well-trained players. Does anyone know what it is? Are his strokes more relaxed or his form or something else?

@dingyibvs : I played mostly defence in this video so it is a bit related to your questions. However, my op's loops are not very powerful so I let him attack. I made two successfull counters far from the table in the first set so that put a bit pressure on him too.

Congrats on winning an event! You might not believe it but some players never win an event.

What I told you about saluting/finishing position is what makes his strokes look more professional than yours. He also starts more with the body/legs and finishes with a whip like motion of the arm.

There is still room to make your backhand more technically efficient but on the whole, you just need to be more patient, swing less for power and use better form for a period of time (3 to 6 months) Most people can't/won't do that until much later so just have fun until you feel you need to improve by going back to the drawing board