Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

[OldschoolPenholder]

For the new members on this thread, recap of me: I'm 53 and haven't played TT for 30+ yrs. I 'unretired' and have been playing for ~3 yrs now, although took a few months off to recover from injury/soreness/and teaching eldest daughter to drive during this past summer.

I'm trying to catch up with the times, adapting to modern blades/rubbers... trying to learn RPB as well as shortening my strokes on FH loops. I'm in black below. This was filmed Tuesday night. My partner and I had hit for 45 mins, he was about to go home and I finally remembered to video us. And of course as we hit being filmed on video, we didn't hit as well. But enough to see I'm making some progress on staying close-to-the-table and shortening my FH loop stroke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcIP5fYcj0

Lots to still work on. At 2 points in the video, i flat hit.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

And wow! 3 lefty PHs with RPB and another lefty PH, suds, kind of still TPB but added RPB to his game ... so 4 lefty RPB!

 

[SFF_lib]

For the new members on this thread, recap of me: I'm 53 and haven't played TT for 30+ yrs. I 'unretired' and have been playing for ~3 yrs now, although took a few months off to recover from injury/soreness/and teaching eldest daughter to drive during this past summer.

I'm trying to catch up with the times, adapting to modern blades/rubbers... trying to learn RPB as well as shortening my strokes on FH loops. I'm in black below. This was filmed Tuesday night. My partner and I had hit for 45 mins, he was about to go home and I finally remembered to video us. And of course as we hit being filmed on video, we didn't hit as well. But enough to see I'm making some progress on staying close-to-the-table and shortening my FH loop stroke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcIP5fYcj0

Lots to still work on. At 2 points in the video, i flat hit.

You are an inspiring figure. Training in PH is hard. Let alone 30+yrs of break.

[emoji106][emoji106]

Passionate about TT

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

You are an inspiring figure. Training in PH is hard. Let alone 30+yrs of break.

[emoji106][emoji106]

Passionate about TT

Thank you for your kind words!

 

[PierreAd]

And wow! 3 lefty PHs with RPB and another lefty PH, suds, kind of still TPB but added RPB to his game ... so 4 lefty RPB!

Did you count me in ?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Did you count me in ?

DOH! Sorry about that Sir!

I was working off of old man memory. I have a spreadsheet where I tallied between TPB and RPB and kept track of lefties. Speaking of which, i left off at page 20 or so, when i have time, i need to finish the tallying.

 

[shinshiro]

TBH grip and blocking high arc heavy topspins

Hi guys, I have some questions about TBH grip and block. I don't know if it was debated here before, but here I go.

When I played jpen, the most difficult thing to me was TBH blocking against high arc spinny topspins (the ball goes off the table). I know that (a good) part of the problem was my lack of skill, but another factor that I think that made hard for me is that I can't close bat angle enough (no where near like shakehand) to block these heavy topspins. I also have noticed that some players in my club have a different grip on BH to be able to close racket angle: they put the thumb behind the blade wing so they are able to push it and close more the angle (see picture 3). The problem is that this takes more time to adjust to this grip in the mid of a rally, and also I saw Ryu Seung Min instructional video on youtube and he doesn't do that, he uses a grip similar to picture 1. Kim Taek Soo also seems to not do it, and the best jpen player at my club also doesn't.

I took 3 pictures to show the grips that I saw people using.

Pic 1 (my grip, and very similar to Ryu Seung Min's):


Pic 2 (a small variant from 1, but I don't think this change too much regarding being able to close more bat angle):
https://i.imgur.com/1ZjXGv2.jpg
(I had some problems to put this image here, so I put only the link...)

Pic 3 (that is I've seen what some players do here to be able to block heavy topspins, but I personally don't find it very pratical, takes more time to change grip) :

1) My question is, what is the correct (or "more standard") way to grip a penhold blade on TBH?
2) What is the grip that you use?
3) If you grip like the first/second picture, how to you manage to block high arc heavy topspins balls? Any general tips? (that is the golden question)

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hello shinshiro:

There are more experienced/better PH than me on this thread. Hope they chime in.

2) What is the grip that you use?

I'm a CPen, I have not tried JPen all that much, vaguely recall i didn't get used to the big handle.

I am somewhat unorthodox and have the handle closer to my first knuckle. I curl my fingers on the back. I posted a pic in this thread. Will find it and edit it into this post.

Any general tips? (that is the golden question)

I have seen more JPenners do this than CPenners. Not sure if it is because of the handle. The JPenners would stand on their tiptoes to block the heavy topspin ... sometimes instead of blocking they BH smash. I don't have a BH smash - i would do my best to meet the ball earlier if i had to block it.

A thought - i see your racket has a rubber on the back. Do you RPB? If so, how has that worked out for you instead of TPB?

 

[mky]

I can't understand Korean but I think around 0:10 they talked about this problem. I think RSM is saying to stay low and catch the ball right off the bounce.

 

[shinshiro]

I have seen more JPenners do this than CPenners. Not sure if it is because of the handle. The JPenners would stand on their tiptoes to block the heavy topspin ... sometimes instead of blocking they BH smash. I don't have a BH smash - i would do my best to meet the ball earlier if i had to block it.

A thought - i see your racket has a rubber on the back. Do you RPB? If so, how has that worked out for you instead of TPB?

I've noticed too that stand on tiptoes to block is common to see, there are even some matches that RSM does that when he doesn't step around. It is very difficult to block heavy topspins if you keep low, because that stance doens't allow to "cover" the ball, specially because I'm not tall at all. I think it would be much less of a problem if I were some inches taller haha.

I also tried RPB for a while. This blade on picture is a custom blade that I asked Kevin from American Hinoki to make, it actually was designed specifically to facilitate RPB (the left wing - where my index finger stands - is much smaller/sanded than the other side). I worked quite well considering the short time I played with it, about 1 month. I was able to get a decent RPB attack for my level and it certainly was much more dangerous than my TBH block/punch, and I didn't have problems with blocking heavy topspins. But I had difficult to block down the line, I couldn't angle my racket easily to that direction (this is problably an issue with my technique tough). But the main reason I stopped playing RPB is because it was hurting a little my wrist and fingers. Maybe it was only a matter of time to get used to it, but it was so annoying to feel pain after every session that I decided to came back to shakehand. This year I will give another try on TBH and if that doesn't work again, I will also try one more time RPB. It is always fun to play with penhold grip!

 

[suds79]

1) My question is, what is the correct (or "more standard") way to grip a penhold blade on TBH?
2) What is the grip that you use?
3) If you grip like the first/second picture, how to you manage to block high arc heavy topspins balls? Any general tips? (that is the golden question)

So Shinshiro, you're basically going through EXACTLY what I went through for years & years.

Back when I played Jpen, I made a video talking about the traditional penhold grip and some adjustments I liked for the TPB I made that worked for me when blocking those spiny loops.

Here's the video on my channel.

Here's some cliff notes version tips.

- It's common place for you grip to change slightly from hit to hit. On the TPB, the thumb slides down the neck of the blade and your fingers might rotate or move slightly. Your body should do this naturally.
- The curled fingers grip i suggest here I like best for twiddling with penhold. But otherwise, I'm back to preferring the traditional grip which I've learned to block just fine with TPB.
- I prefer the traditional grip because I feel it gives better feel or power on the FH with the fingers more extended.

That being said. I still occasionally block a spiny loop long (maybe everybody does IDK) with my TPB and it drives me crazy. I find I rarely ever get out-spun when i block with RPB so Honestly I'd either ditch the Jpen and get a cpen or put rubber on the BH side and learn to do a RPB. You'll take me years down the road.

It'd be like using a rotary phone and someone coming up to you and saying "Hey have you tried these smart phones? They sure do make things easier a lot of times." You'd want them to let you know that right? Well that's what I'm doing with saying "Learn to block & play with RPB."

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Being an oldschool PH, i was not used to the weight of 2 inverted and my wrist hurt also after an hour or so. So I gave up on trying to learn RPB. 2 yrs ago, got a blade via NextLevel's Christmas contest which coincidentally is an American Hinoki CPen. Not sure if it's custom made for the previous owner or not, but it's noticeably smaller blade than my other CPen blades. Because of the smallness though, I am ok with the weight of the 2 inverted rubbers on it. Didn't have wrist pain after playing with this setup.

Good luck with your PH play when you try again!

 

[shinshiro]

I can't understand Korean but I think around 0:10 they talked about this problem. I think RSM is saying to stay low and catch the ball right off the bounce.

Thanks for the video mky.

There is one person at my club that also said that to me, to catch the ball right off the bounce. The problem with this is that you have to be very close to the table to be able to block. When the shot doesn't have high arc and hits near the end of the table, then it isn't too troublesome. But if it has a little higher arc and bounces in the mid of the table, you have to stay very close to the table to block safely, and that is not always possible.

At 1:19, what I described above is exactly what happens with RSM. He looks very unconfortable to block this type of shot.

 

[shinshiro]

So Shinshiro, you're basically going through EXACTLY what I went through for years & years.

Back when I played Jpen, I made a video talking about the traditional penhold grip and some adjustments I liked for the TPB I made that worked for me when blocking those spiny loops.

Here's the video on my channel.

Here's some cliff notes version tips.

- It's common place for you grip to change slightly from hit to hit. On the TPB, the thumb slides down the neck of the blade and your fingers might rotate or move slightly. Your body should do this naturally.
- The curled fingers grip i suggest here I like best for twiddling with penhold. But otherwise, I'm back to preferring the traditional grip which I've learned to block just fine with TPB.
- I prefer the traditional grip because I feel it gives better feel or power on the FH with the fingers more extended.

That being said. I still occasionally block a spiny loop long (maybe everybody does IDK) with my TPB and it drives me crazy. I find I rarely ever get out-spun when i block with RPB so Honestly I'd either ditch the Jpen and get a cpen or put rubber on the BH side and learn to do a RPB. You'll take me years down the road.

It'd be like using a rotary phone and someone coming up to you and saying "Hey have you tried these smart phones? They sure do make things easier a lot of times." You'd want them to let you know that right? Well that's what I'm doing with saying "Learn to block & play with RPB."

Thanks suds79!
I will try this curled finger grip when my jpen arrives (I sold the one I had before, I tought I wouldn't want to give it another shot...).

It seems it is a inherent problem with TBH users. Man, that is VERY SAD hahaha =[
I may also try to put short pips...does it help to block? (I have never used short pips before)
I know that it will change my game, but I'm considering triyng it for fun

 

[suds79]

I think it's just something that is developed with time.

I've seen 60 year old+ jpeners, who probably have been playing that style their whole lives, show some of the softest hands around and can block power loops for days. Over & over.

I think it just comes with time.

In the meantime, if you see someone loading up with power or spin, do yourself a favor. Take a step back off the table. You'd be amazed how much that can help with giving you time and the table you're hitting on is also further away. Maybe those start to land.

Could also try pulling back a little on blocks vs going forward on the power ones to take some speed off the ball but I won't pretend like that's a particular strength of mine.

 

[Der_Echte]

I can't understand Korean but I think around 0:10 they talked about this problem. I think RSM is saying to stay low and catch the ball right off the bounce.

RSM is giving a one on one lesson and the title of the vid in Korea is called BH Punch Grip and Impact.

Koreans say Shot where the O is hard and pronounced like the O in Note.

A Shot in Korean is where you use the BH to do something between a block and a drive... it is a BH designed to keep ball in play to get a chance to use the FH.

Will look at vid and comment.

Edit, hard to hear stuff, the vid goes like grip like this extend arm out like this to impact.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[shinshiro]

Here in Brazil (at least at my club) we say 'shoto' too, wich is borrowed from japanese I guess. So I think Japan, Korea and Brazil use the same word for this shot.
Edit: Just to be clear, this name applies to both jpen and shakehand, and not only jpen as it might seems

 

[Der_Echte]

Showt in Korean TT language means a BH rally shot. It will not have a lot of spin, but enough pace and placement to keep in the point so the player can get that more powerful FH into play.

Amazingly, a DRIVE in Korean TT language is not the drive we think of (a FH or BH shot that has some pace, but not a ton of spin) the Koreans have the drive as a very spinny shot. A power loop or loop kill to them is called Power Drive, which is one of the few TT words that carry pretty much the same meaning.

 

[James Livesey]

Yeah. Penhold is far more specific than I initially thought. I simply watched WH in the 2012 Olympics and thought, that's what I want to do. I started playing learning rpb, but all the ph'ers I know are TPB. TPB is super cool given its place in TT history. I'm certainly far more inspired by the penholders on this forum than otherwise. We get very specific and enjoy being slightly different. I don't think I would care for the usual equipment ej talk, but the technical talk as lead by osp keeps me coming back.

 

[James Livesey]

I was also wondering what people's thoughts on the tin arc series for BH was? I've been looking for a non tacky rubber that once boosted, performs as well as modern tensory rubbers. Skyline 3-60 is great but I'd like something a tad faster. A less tacky seems like a good shout as I wouldn't want to go any faster. Any other recommendations?