WTT Singapore Smash 2024 3/7-3/17

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Answer this. Why do you think WTT has suspended the PDR for CT and SCT until Paris 2024?

Hirano couldn't even qualify even if she signed up, otherwise.
Wait, you mean that the fact that she was ranked lower than others had nothing to do with her play? She just magically lacked the opportunities that others like Kihara and even Harimoto magically found? IT is easy to forget her subpar performances in Japanese tournaments prior to the Olympic qualifying tournaments out of convenience.
 
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I watched a bit of the draw ceremony and people in the live stream were quite critical about the choices and the objectives of the draw.

Why are some players in the top 20 meeting one another in the first round, and in the same vein, some qualifiers are drawn to face one another. Is this some measure to give qualifiers a sense of comfort because some of them will not get eliminated in the first round after toiling for three rounds of qualification?

Any explanation for this or is there something in a prospectus somewhere that I'm missing??
Maybe this is good for marketing the event to gamblers? Lol...you never know what WTT is up to!
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Wait, you mean that the fact that she was ranked lower than others had nothing to do with her play? She just magically lacked the opportunities that others like Kihara and even Harimoto magically found? IT is easy to forget her subpar performances in Japanese tournaments prior to the Olympic qualifying tournaments out of convenience.
Man, how many times have I read this reasoning? Hirano gave up on WS to focus on WD for Tokyo 2020 and she has been stuck in the top 20 for the entire Paris 2024 cycle.

Tieba users have discussed how the same thing has kept QTY from playing, who lost to SYS in the final at Singapore Smash 2023. The PDR has prevented her from participating in CT and SCT for much of 2023 (she has been stuck in #7 forever for that reason), regardless of CNT's selection system. If QTY doesn't reach the final this time, she will drop to the 30s.

So you are mixing up strength with draw here, the latter of which doesn't even have to do with luck now.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2024_10_SEN_WS.html
1 SYS, 14
2 CM, 12
3 WMY, 13
4 WYD, 12
6 CXT, 10
7 QTY, 7

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/2024_9_SEN_WS.html
1 SYS, 14
2 CM, 12
3 WYD, 13
4 WMY, 13
6 CXT, 10
7 QTY, 8
 
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Man, how many times have I read this reasoning? Hirano gave up on WS to focus on WD for Tokyo 2020 and she has been stuck in the top 20 for the entire Paris 2024 cycle.

Tieba users have discussed how the same thing has kept QTY from playing, who lost to SYS in the final at Singapore Smash 2023. The PDR has prevented her from participating in CT and SCT for much of 2023 (she has been stuck in #7 forever for that reason), regardless of CNT's selection system. If QTY doesn't reach the final this time, she will drop to the 30s.

So you are mixing up strength with draw here, the latter of which doesn't even have to do with luck now.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2024_10_SEN_WS.html
1 SYS, 14
2 CM, 12
3 WMY, 13
4 WYD, 12
6 CXT, 10
7 QTY, 7

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/2024_9_SEN_WS.html
1 SYS, 14
2 CM, 12
3 WYD, 13
4 WMY, 13
6 CXT, 10
7 QTY, 8
QTY also lost multiple matches that led to her being explicitly denied chances. So no one would argue that she is better than anyone ahead of her getting opportunities (but maybe you and Tieba users might). Miu Hirano would have have a hard time arguing that the reason she is being denied opportunities is that her teammates are better than her. The PDR is not a sufficient explanation.

Was this explained by the PDR?


Or this?

 
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Lee Ho Ching during the WTTTC at Busan took me back to her early-to-mid 2010s form, that is why I picked her to come out. It is easy to forget she used to be a stable top 15 during the ELO era, she still plays that old ancient topspin game but has managed to make it workable again vs the last few years including 2021 Olympics where she was head scratching. That said, a lot of my other picks had embarrassing losses so no victory laps from me.
She is produced by the club I go to.
 
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I am very hyped for these upcoming matches.
All of Ma Longs matches in the first rounds will be great to watch and learn from.
Hopefully he can face Dima.
Dima gets his rematch for his loss at WTTC 2023 Match against Pucar.
Gerassimenko vs LYJ.
FZD vs LSD.
FZD vs Timo Boll.
Harimoto vs LJK.
LJH vs LYJ.
Felix vs Sora.
Felix vs JWJ.
LGY vs Darko.
Calderano vs Qiu.
Truls vs Togami.

All really great matches, as far as I can see for now.
Mostly predictions obviously, but it should be about right.
Felix vs Sora will be either a 3-0 sweep to either one or a 3-2 match
 
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Man, how many times have I read this reasoning? Hirano gave up on WS to focus on WD for Tokyo 2020 and she has been stuck in the top 20 for the entire Paris 2024 cycle.

Tieba users have discussed how the same thing has kept QTY from playing, who lost to SYS in the final at Singapore Smash 2023. The PDR has prevented her from participating in CT and SCT for much of 2023 (she has been stuck in #7 forever for that reason), regardless of CNT's selection system. If QTY doesn't reach the final this time, she will drop to the 30s.

So you are mixing up strength with draw here, the latter of which doesn't even have to do with luck now.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2024_10_SEN_WS.html
1 SYS, 14
2 CM, 12
3 WMY, 13
4 WYD, 12
6 CXT, 10
7 QTY, 7

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/2024_9_SEN_WS.html
1 SYS, 14
2 CM, 12
3 WYD, 13
4 WMY, 13
6 CXT, 10
7 QTY, 8
It might sound cruel, but if you're one of the top 2 Japanese women, you just can't be losing to players like Lily(@SC Bangkok) and Bruna (@Tunis) who are good players but not nearly as complete players as Hirano. Those points she could have gotten had she won would have put her into a seeded position here in Singapore. And regrettably, she lost to Pyon Song Gyong at the Asian Games (a loss not only in ranking point opportunities, but which added more pressure at the next Paris trial). She also had the misfortune of meeting Miwa in the 1st round at WTT Champions Frankfurt. I guess we can forgive her for that one given the caliber of player Miwa is. But note that Hayata beat Miwa in the very next round. I feel for Hirano. I really do. It is tough managing WTT tournaments and the Paris trials. She's capable of beating anyone including Hayata, but she's sure made it tough on herself trying to climb the ranking points hill.
 
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QTY also lost multiple matches that led to her being explicitly denied chances. So no one would argue that she is better than anyone ahead of her getting opportunities (but maybe you and Tieba users might). Miu Hirano would have have a hard time arguing that the reason she is being denied opportunities is that her teammates are better than her. The PDR is not a sufficient explanation.

Was this explained by the PDR?

Then you are missing out here. WYD, nicknamed 皇迪/royal Di or privileged Di now, has lost the most against non-teammates, 7 times in this cycle, 5 of which to JNT players. Tieba users have been bashing WYD for months before WTTC 2024. CXT isn't all that better either, especially after putting WMY in the current situation by blocking her multiple times.

Your reasoning (and that of pongfugrasshopper) makes absolutely no sense now that Hirano has finished 2nd in the selection race, who had been in 3rd place since 12/2022 and then 2nd place since 5/2023. Other than yours truly and a select few, how many people thought Hirano should've dropped out back at the start of this cycle?

Where were these arguments against Hayata when she lost a series of matches against non-CNT players and was trailing in win rate and still had trouble breaking through CNT players around this time last year? Where were these arguments for Hirano when her win rate against CNT players shot up at the time she started losing more against non-CNT players?

https://web.archive.org/web/2024030...1796818442&w=LPSJKU6RsKyS7j8iCNMm4KKIhBLImNx7
liXiao said:
Ishikawa and Hirano have to go imo. Ito, Hayata, Kihara, Nagasaki, Harimoto.
Only Ishikawa has to go.

Hirano has actually done the best in the Paris 2024 cycle(8/2021-), especially 2-1 -> 3-4 CM at WTTC 2021, losing only to CNT players(with wins) and her teammates. 2nd is Hayata. 3rd is Kihara but has not met her teammates has only met her teammate once, 3-2 Kato at WTT CT Doha 2022.

Ito(to Yuan Jia Nan in 2022), Ishikawa(to CSY in 2022), Nagasaki(to Mittelham and CSY in 2022, Kamath in 2021) and Harimoto(let's give her a pass) have lost to non-CNT player(s) in this cycle.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...t-league-individual-tournament-8-1314#1126440
That should raise some flags, but sadly no. Folks still stuck to their misguided feelings and false impressions that Ishikawa was immensely better than Hirano in H2H against foregin players.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-444137
Hirano actually remained unbeaten against non-CNT players and non-teammates longer than Hayata and Ito. Hirano started losing only in 2023 when she had to raise her world ranking while keeping up with the selection trials and T. League season, which proved very difficult and something Hayata experienced in the Tokyo 2020 cycle where she traveled all over the world to take part in Challenge Series to make up for poor seeding in World Tour.

Losses vs non-CNT players and non-teammates for Paris 2024 cycle:
Kihara: 1
WTT CT Lima 2023 | SF | Kihara 2-3 Szocs (Kihara had the lead and game point in G4)

Ito: 2
WTT CS Macao 2023 | R16 | 1-3 CIC
Singapore Smash 2022 | R16 | 1-3 Yuan Jia Nan

Hayata: 3
Singapore Smash 2023 | R32 | 2-3 S. Sawettabut
WTT SCT Goa 2023 | R32 | 1-3 CIC
Asian Cup 2022 | 3rd-4th | 2-4 Batra

Hirano: 4 + 1 forfeit due to leg cramp
Asian Games 2022 | R16 | 2-4 Pyon Songgyong
WTT CT Lima 2023 | R16 | 0-3 Pavade (forfeit during G2)
WTT CT Tunis 2023 | QF | 1-3 B. Takahashi
WTT SCT Bangkok 2023 | R16 | 0-3 Lily Zhang
WTT SCT Goa 2023 | R16 | 2-3 CIC (Hirano up 2-0)

Harimoto: 6
Nagasaki: 9

Before ATTC 2023 and Asian Games 2022:
http://mytabletennis.net/FORUM/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1144117
dMPKe8B.png

https://web.archive.org/web/2024012...1034518577&w=0xOS76YXK3WOQBBoLUjMc25fvlCJArrk (10/14/2023 at 5:21pm)
No wonder Hayata doesn't take a break. Her stats still don't compare well (05/08/2023 at 3:14pm), despite the 2 wins over WYD at WTTC 2023 and Asian Games 2022. Those 2 wins are arguably her only highlights of 2023.

Before WTT CT Muscat 2023 (so after ATTC 2023, Asian Games 2022 and WTT SCT Lanzhou 2023), her 2023 win rate (73.68%) is just above that of 2022 (71.43%). To give you a sense how low that number sounds, Hirano, after a series of baffling losses (namely Zhang An, Takahashi and Pyon Song Gyong) and forfeit due to leg cramps (Pavade) (08/14/2023 at 12:43pm), still has a 2023 win rate of 72.41%.

The reason lies in Hayata's 2023 win rate against China (20%), which is just a few percentages above that of Ito (16.67%), compared to that of Hirano (57.14%). Hayata has only defeated CNT players 4 times in the Paris 2024 cycle, WYD 2 times in 2023 and QTY and LWS in 2022. She shouldn't have lost to LWS at WTT SCT Lanzhou 2023, no matter what. LWS has the worst win rate among the top 10 CNT players (63.64% after WTT SCT Lanzhou 2023, and 50% for 2022).

It's thus not surprising to see that Hayata would rank behind SYB and Ito w/o continental points (10/13/2023 at 3:09pm). Ito, who has been been losing left and right at home, is slightly more consistent in terms of finishing position. The same can be said for Harimoto and Hirano.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023_41_SEN_WS.html
2023, before WTT CT Muscat and excluding Asian WTTC Continental Stage which ended in R16 for seeded players
Hayata
1 W, 2 SF, 4 QF, 1 R32, 2 R64
R32 2-3 Sawettabut at Singapore Smash
R64 1-3 CIC at WTT SCT Goa
R64 1-3 LWS at WTT SCT Lanzhou
Ito
1 W, 1 SF, 4 QF, 1 R16, 1 R32
R16 1-3 CIC at WTT CS Macao
R32 2-3 QTY at Singapore Smash
Harimoto
2 W, 2 SF, 2 QF, 3 R16
R16 2-3 Wu Yangchen at WTT FEE Dusseldorf
R16 1-3 KM at WTT CT Zagreb
R16 0-3 Hayata at WTT SCT Ljubljana
Hirano
1 W, 1 SF, 1 QF, 6 R16
R16 3-2 WYD in R32 and then 2-3 Zhang Rui in R16 at Singapore Smash
R16 0-4 WYD at WTTC
R16 0-3 CXT at ATTC

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/19th-asian-games-hangzhou.31953/post-425570
To have a chance against China, Hayata needs to show the same dominance she has on her teammates.

Back in the Tokyo 2020 cycle, Hirano (from late-2016 to mid-2017) and Ito (from early-2018 or mid-2018 to late 2019 or early 2020) showed dominance against teammates and overseas players, but the level of dominance they had over their teammates was not as lopsided as Hayata has had so far. In other words, Hayata has displayed asymmetrical dominance when it comes to overseas players.
 
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It might sound cruel, but if you're one of the top 2 Japanese women, you just can't be losing to players like Lily(@SC Bangkok) and Bruna (@Tunis) who are good players but not nearly as complete players as Hirano. Those points she could have gotten had she won would have put her into a seeded position here in Singapore. And regrettably, she lost to Pyon Song Gyong at the Asian Games (a loss not only in ranking point opportunities, but which added more pressure at the next Paris trial). She also had the misfortune of meeting Miwa in the 1st round at WTT Champions Frankfurt. I guess we can forgive her for that one given the caliber of player Miwa is. But note that Hayata beat Miwa in the very next round. I feel for Hirano. I really do. It is tough managing WTT tournaments and the Paris trials. She's capable of beating anyone including Hayata, but she's sure made it tough on herself trying to climb the ranking points hill.
Cruel? Is that a joke? In that case, as some Tieba users have argued, Kihara and Ito should be the top 2 here. Care to tell me Kihara's latest WR? She has lost ONLY ONCE to non-CNT players and non-teammates, Szocs to be specific (Kihara had the lead and game point in G4). Other than Hirano and Akula, she is the other one to have beaten WYD 3-0.

If you tell me that about Hirano now, you should've told me that about Hayata back then.
 
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Cruel? Is that a joke? In that case, as some Tieba users have argued, Kihara and Ito should be the top 2 here. Care to tell me Kihara's latest WR? She has lost ONLY ONCE to non-CNT players and non-teammates, Szocs to be specific (Kihara had the lead and game point in G4). Other than Hirano and Akula, she is the other one to have beaten WYD 3-0.

If you tell me that about Hirano now, you should've told me that about Hayata back then.
A player's ranking is what it is. Looking at Kihara's history the past year, it looks like she either lost in the early rounds to CNT players or got tripped up by her bestie Nagasaki (twice) so the sample size is not great.

The year or so leading up to the Olympics has greater weighting because it affects seeding at the Olympics. Looking at Hayata's 2023 history her non-CNT losses were early and were to Sawettabut and CIC (who Hirano also lost to in the same tournament). I know you don't think much of her game, but I think it bears repeating. She's back to back All Japan champion (triple crown in 2023). She dominated Japan's race to Paris 2024. She won 3 WTT Contenders last year. Won the bronze medal at the World Championship last year. Won the silver at last year's Asian Games. So she did her job and then some.
 
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Argh, sample size again, when it suits. The sample size of Hirano's losses is too small, PERIOD

Alright, now do SYS vs all of women from India and you can talk about how previous results means the recent result was actually impossible and acutally coudln't have happened.

You really should drop the sample size thing because anybody with any statistical leanings, or even your casual bettor knows that a sample size of 12 is absurdly small.

I read all your posts because you post some really interesting bits of information and compile them very well. But it's pretty clear you've done no actual serious work dealing with probabilities in trying to forecast future events. And it's pretty childish of you to keep bringing up the issue in a snarky way. But I suppose you don't have actual serious arguments in your favor so there's really no other choice.
 
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Argh, sample size again, when it suits. The sample size of Hirano's losses is too small, PERIOD
But she had all the same opportunities as her teammates. It is simply finding special excuses when there is no reason she could not have done what Hayata did.
 
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Argh, sample size again, when it suits. The sample size of Hirano's losses is too small, PERIOD
Sample size is relevant in most situations. It's really easy to create narratives with a small number of results. Those narratives just won't be very reliable. Sorry if math gets in the way of your feelings, brother.
 
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Then you are missing out here. WYD, nicknamed 皇迪/royal Di or privileged Di now, has lost the most against non-teammates, 7 times in this cycle, 5 of which to JNT players. Tieba users have been bashing WYD for months before WTTC 2024. CXT isn't all that better either, especially after putting WMY in the current situation by blocking her multiple times.

Your reasoning (and that of pongfugrasshopper) makes absolutely no sense now that Hirano has finished 2nd in the selection race, who had been in 3rd place since 12/2022 and then 2nd place since 5/2023. Other than yours truly and a select few, how many people thought Hirano should've dropped out back at the start of this cycle?

Where were these arguments against Hayata when she lost a series of matches against non-CNT players and was trailing in win rate and still had trouble breaking through CNT players around this time last year? Where were these arguments for Hirano when her win rate against CNT players shot up at the time she started losing more against non-CNT players?

https://web.archive.org/web/20240309085335/https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http://mytabletennis.net/forum/wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16_topic92044_page6.html&d=4826701796818442&w=LPSJKU6RsKyS7j8iCNMm4KKIhBLImNx7


https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-444137


https://web.archive.org/web/20240124164718/https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=mytabletennis.net/forum/zennihon-takkyu-2024-1-2228_topic91479_page36.html&d=4816411034518577&w=0xOS76YXK3WOQBBoLUjMc25fvlCJArrk (10/14/2023 at 5:21pm)
It makes perfect sense, using hidden statistics with limited predictive power to make arguments will work only so long. No one other than yourself and maybe Tieba users thought trailing in win rate was more important than actually being dominant both in Japan and on tour. And ultimately, China will figure out how to select the players it wants to play. Hayata was just as capable of burnout as everyone else, she played a lot of table tennis. It is interesting now that Hirano is being given thr PDR excuse. CiC is not in the same class as these players, though I know you would like to place her there. Sawetabutt, I can understand, but one can also watch the losses and decide whether that is the way a superior player tends to lose.

There is no one to blame for the frequency with which Hayata played in events, juat as there is no one to blade for Hirano's inability to support both an internal and external ranking, rationales nor withstanding. The PDR is just being made up after the fact. Qian Tianyi lost critical matches against Chen Xingtong yhat determined her team rank. As for Hirano, it is okay, she has a few months to get lucky and unlucky and raise her ranking, we will see whether it ia purely a frequency of play issue. Let us note by the way that Harimoto, PDR notwithstanding, could easily have finished ahead of Hirano based on how she finished the cycle had it been extended a few months. She just didn't get enough bites at the apple.
 
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大满贯签表 (Draw for Singapore Smash 2024)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8926166375?pid=149904730917&cid=149910221420#149910221420
勾手回抛遮挡 日本两次签位都是内战,只能出一人,太惨了。 (Japan's draws for 2 times were both civil wars, and only one person could advance, which is too miserable.)
IP属地:河南来自Android客户端26楼2024-03-08 17:26收起回复
大爱miao天王: 平野上次第一轮碰美和被一轮游 这次第一轮又碰早田 (Hirano was first-round exit by Miwa when they faced in the first round last time. This time she runs into Hayata in the first round)
2024-3-9 17:49回复
勾手回抛遮挡: 回复 大爱miao天王 :平野我还想看她多打几次呢?就没看见她打几次比赛 (I still want to see Hirano play a few times more? She has hardly played any competitions)
2024-3-9 17:53回复

奥运女单二号 (2nd WS spot for Olympics)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8927498311?pid=149910101522&cid=149910129248#149910129248
巴拉巴拉小猪 法兰克福陈梦输斯大妈,她机会就不大了,鱼守半区过早田赢很大,所以混团就给鱼机会打单打,鱼也接住了,一时风光无两,路透都是眉飞色舞的。大家也认为鱼很有机会积分第二,后来名古屋输陈幸同,其实鱼也没看出来伤心,机场也是喜笑颜开,阳历年的时候换上了巴黎225头像,意味着巴黎势在必得,一切应该从多哈说起来,陈梦又打到了第三,鱼也没想到教练组会真的按照排名不给她淘汰赛,那天确实是临时换人,鱼失魂落魄打电话,但是其实也还好,没有表现太过失落和兴奋,直到决赛梦迪接连失误,给了鱼又一次机会,就是这次新加坡大满贯,鱼今天就开始备战早田了,她也知道早田就是她的救命稻草
In Frankfurt, CM lost to Auntie Szocs, and her chances are not good. Fish [TL's note: WMY] gained a lot after defending her half and getting past Hayata, so the Fish was given a chance to play singles at XTWC 2023, and Fish nailed it. The situation was unparalleled for a while, and she was all elated in clips. Everyone also thought that Fish had a good chance of being second in points. Later, she lost to CXT in Nagoya, but in fact, Fish didn't look sad at all. She was also smiling at the airport. On New Year's Day, she changed her avatar to "Paris225", meaning that Paris was bound to happen. Speaking of which, everything should've started from Doha, CM reached third place again. Fish didn't expect that the coaching staff would really go by ranking and would not field her in knockout stage. It was indeed a temporary substitution that day. Fish made a phone call in despair, but it was actually okay. She didn't show too much disappointment and excitement, until MengDi made consecutive mistakes in the final, giving Fish yet another chance, which is this Singapore Smash. Fish started preparing for Hayata today, and she also knew that Hayata was her life-saving straw.
IP属地:辽宁来自iPhone客户端4楼2024-03-09 17:29收起回复
牛奶咖啡: 她现在赢早田其实问题不大 (There shouldn't be too much problem for her to win against Hayata now)
2024-3-9 17:30回复
巴拉巴拉小猪: 回复 牛奶咖啡 :我也觉得没问题,但是她明显没这样觉得,按理说今天没必要和左手练 (I think so as well, but she obviously doesn't think so. Logically speaking, there was no need to practice with lefty today)
2024-3-9 17:33回复
贴吧用户_5NK5XCK: 但是你说平野神经刀 要是刀了早田 那就好玩了 (But like you said Hirano the Wild Blade, it would be fun if Hirano knifed Hayata)
2024-3-9 17:34回复
巴拉巴拉小猪: 回复 贴吧用户_5NK5XCK :正常没可能,但是早田应该是病了10来天,所以很有可能 (Normally it's impossible, but Hayata must have been sick for about 10 days, so it's very possible)
2024-3-9 17:35回复
 
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