WTT Singapore Smash 2024 3/7-3/17

[Wrighty67]

So what is this list of players he has lost to with a higher level of FH attack? Curious.

Most of the CNT ?

LYJ

Felix

 

[NextLevel]

Most of the CNT no?

Not sure i can agree. He did pretty well in Super league and is known for ability to gain advantages in touch play. He has beaten Liamg Jingkun betore. His game has its issues, but it is not fair IMO to argue that a player that is clearly working hard on expanding his game is stagnating when even in this match, he wasn't getting killed in the rallies. He couldn't even return the opponent's serve decently and was almost always on the back foot and that is unlikely to be true for any player not name WCQ.

 

[NextLevel]

So because you are a player of standing, you are allowed something more than others? I don't know where he gets that right but apparently you can do just about anything with referees, even make them believe you have a perfect serve yourself. 🫣

That's one interpretation. Let's just say that in my experience, the toss rule is one of the most misinterpreted rules out there and the way it is encouraged to be interpreted has been shown to be wrong on camera as a standard. Ad the same event that they introduced Hawkeye and Hawkeye faulted Ma Long repeatedly, I may be misremembering but they also faulted Timo on serve height and he successfully won challenges because ball separation is not a good measure of toss height

 

[NextLevel]

Most of the CNT ?

LYJ

Felix

Those latter players don't beat him because of forehand quality, they are just faster and better players, but I think Truls is working on his backhand quite a bit so it would have been worth it to see him play them and see where he is in the process

 

[Vlad Celler]

I'm curious why after all these years, you still believe that CXT and QTY are there to do the leadership's dirty work.
Do you have a valid observation study on this, because CXT has stopped WMY on important occasions that one would have thought party's directives would "kick in" to save WMY since it's seemingly logical that she should be favored, and QTY plays so few events that sometimes one's forget she's a top 10 player.
I'm absolutely willing to listen to your theory.

I apologize... This is of course just my speculation, and perhaps you are right....

 

[zeio]

I think his forehand is good enough, at least he used it well against the Chinese in some of his famous scalps. I don't see his forehand ever becoming like Wang Liqin's or even prime Ma Long, but right now, it's good enough to stay close to the top, and it can probably get good enough to become the undisputed number 1 in a couple of years. But that's a big can.

He just needs to skilfully use his backhand and first couple of touches to bring LJK out of position, and then use his forehand to finish the point. Maybe trying more parallels for his first attack/counter in the rally like he's used to perfection against Fan/Ma in the past. But if he wants to stubbornly prove himself in the BH Vs BH rallies before switching to FH occasionally against the guy with the sturdiest frame and the spinny BH, It may get him some close results like in the WTTC or today, but the end result would often fall short.

For one, he has stopped stepping around to receive with the FH in recent years.

Japan Open, MS F Harimoto 4-3 ZJK
G7 9:10, BH then step-around FH
https://youtu.be/5L5FHqqgBog?t=808
11:11, step-around FH on receive
https://youtu.be/5L5FHqqgBog?t=840

For the time being, he is aware of the problem. In the Mainichi interview after WTT CS Frankfurt 2023, he said he went from 0 to 80 in one fell swoop but going from 80 to 81 becomes very difficult and he needs to take more risks, namely picking up new skills. In the 5-part Butterfly interview after WTTC 2023 (specifically part 5, see quote), he said he's as confident in the BH as FZD and WCQ and it comes down to the FH. And in the 2-part Butterfly interview after WTTC 2022 (11/25/2022 at 1:35am), he said he wants to get back the softness of his game from 2016 and 2017. He used his FH very extensively at World Cup 2020 but somehow that Harimoto disappeared afterward.

Another thing I notice is that he's lost the signature blink.

張本智和インタビュー　
世界卓球2023ダーバンを振り返る⑤
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/022669.html

--具体的にはどういうところを強化していきたいと考えていますか？

張本　バックハンドは今までで一番信頼できるくらい最強の武器になっています。バックハンドは樊振東や王楚欽と同等といってもいいくらい自信があるので、やっぱり、課題はフォアハンドですね。大きなくくりでいうとフォアハンドになりますが、ストップ、ツッツキ、フリック、ドライブ、カウンター。1球だけはできても、バックハンドとの連係ができていなかったり、試合の流れによってはできなかったりするので、そうしたひとつひとつの技術を強化していきたいですね。
　あと、梁靖崑とどこに差があったかというと、やはり、ストップです。ストップ対ストップで、絶対に僕の方が先にツッツキに逃げちゃって、それを打たれていました。逆に、荘智淵とやった時には、向こうが我慢できなくなってツッツいてきたので、レベルは上がってきているけど、まだ梁靖崑には勝てていない。
　バック対バックに関しては本当に勝てているなという実感も試合中にありましたが、バック対バックは多くても試合の１/３くらいです。バック対バックで勝てても試合で勝てるということにはなりません。。ストップ対ストップの中でも、先にフォア前に回り込んでチキータに入るとか、そういう工夫も梁靖崑の方が多かったので、試合全体の51％で相手を上回るためには、ストップからの展開だったり、フォアハンドドライブ1球1球の質、回転量、スピードを高める必要があって、そこは練習だけですね。梁靖崑は僕より5、6年長く、フォアハンドドライブの練習をしているので、しようがない部分もありますが、同じようにやっているだけでは勝てないので、効率のいい練習、相手よりも何倍も意味のある練習をしないといけないですね。
　今はそれを、董（とん）さん（董崎岷コーチ）や田㔟さん（田㔟邦史男子ナショナルチーム監督）がすごくいい練習メニューをつくってくれたり、練習を毎日見てくれているので、今はすごく自信を持って練習だけに取り組めています。

 

[Robin0910]

Any predictions of the match between Timo and Liang?
I go with Liang this time

 

[NextLevel]

Any predictions of the match between Timo and Liang?
I go with Liang this time

Liang knows how to play Timo and has experience doing it, so I agree with you. Timo's run is amazing though, it's been crazy what he has been able to achieve.

 

[Shine]

That's one interpretation. Let's just say that in my experience, the toss rule is one of the most misinterpreted rules out there and the way it is encouraged to be interpreted has been shown to be wrong on camera as a standard. Ad the same event that they introduced Hawkeye and Hawkeye faulted Ma Long repeatedly, I may be misremembering but they also faulted Timo on serve height and he successfully won challenges because ball separation is not a good measure of toss height

What event was this in particular?? Because Timo's serves looks really sus especially the reverse pendulum.
Maybe it's recorded on YouTube.

 

[NextLevel]

What event was this in particular?? Because Timo's serves looks really sus especially the reverse pendulum.
Maybe it's recorded on YouTube.

It was definitely in China or East Asia if my memory s credible. The alternative is that I dreamed up the whole thing. But there were measurements of ball speeds and things like that.

 

[Metaxa]

That's one interpretation. Let's just say that in my experience, the toss rule is one of the most misinterpreted rules out there and the way it is encouraged to be interpreted has been shown to be wrong on camera as a standard. Ad the same event that they introduced Hawkeye and Hawkeye faulted Ma Long repeatedly, I may be misremembering but they also faulted Timo on serve height and he successfully won challenges because ball separation is not a good measure of toss height

Gosh yes, it always remains difficult to judge of course but surely something you can see with the naked eye for years in certain players does not need technical confirmation? Technical support should only be used when in doubt, just as it is in all other sports. With a lot of players, it is abundantly clear that they play by their own rules. The fact that this can happen without (or rarely) the intervention of a referee only makes it worse but more importantly makes it implausible that our sport would be on the rise.

 

[kindof99]

Any predictions of the match between Timo and Liang?
I go with Liang this time

TB is counted out again? Haha

 

[zeio]

It was WTGF 2019, where Table Tennis Review (TTR) was first implemented?

LGY 52-degree toss...
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/2019-ittf-world-tour-grand-finals.22442/post-299064

First-ever successful challenge in history goes to Boll...
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/2019-ittf-world-tour-grand-finals.22442/post-299293

In
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/2019-ittf-world-tour-grand-finals.22442/post-299316

 

[Metaxa]

What event was this in particular?? Because Timo's serves looks really sus especially the reverse pendulum.
Maybe it's recorded on YouTube.

From 00:48
Exceptionally a good one

 

[NextLevel]

From 00:48
Exceptionally a good one

But that is the serve that Timo typically does, it never looks right, but people underestimate what 6 inches really looks like.

 

[Metaxa]

But that is the serve that Timo typically does, it never looks right, but people underestimate what 6 inches really looks like.

A diagonal angle is always longer than straight. Just because you take care of your service for a trial doesn't mean it's always the same when it's really about the marbles like in Singapore now. I also note that with age, Timo is raising his balls even less than before. He also makes himself more nervous than ever before and that will be his age for something in between, exactly whether he has yet to prove himself. He really doesn't need to, his record is enviable.

 

[Imperfecto]

What event was this in particular?? Because Timo's serves looks really sus especially the reverse pendulum.
Maybe it's recorded on YouTube.

Think it was 2019 world tour grand finals, to be more specific the doubles match with franziska agaisnt taipei

 

[Shine]

Interesting.
How come they measured from the highest point of the ball to where his ball-holding hand fell to as at the crest of the serve?
Isn't it supposed to be calibrated against the latitude that his hand was when he served, the weak hand obviously will drop naturally.
If that's the criteria for ball toss, everyone should have little issues I think, just throw a little toss and quickly recline your hand to your waist.

From 00:48
Exceptionally a good one

 

[blahness]

WCQ doesn't have a big head lol, if anything Liang Jingkun is the one with a big head... and he's not hiding the serve remotely close to WCQ levels.

So the issue is that, he deliberately throws the ball in a way that it goes behind his head which is in fact a lot harder to do.

I tried doing it and I was constantly mistiming balls - it's easier to do FH serves where the ball passes in front of your eyes rather than around your ears (WCQ style).

It's clearly against the rules because the ball has to be visible from the net's perspective all the time (a lot of ppl misunderstand the rules, it's all about not allowing the ball to be hidden, not the racket - almost all FH serves hide the racket from view at some time before ball contact).

 

[Metaxa]

Interesting.
How come they measured from the highest point of the ball to where his ball-holding hand fell to as at the crest of the serve?
Isn't it supposed to be calibrated against the latitude that his hand was when he served, the weak hand obviously will drop naturally.
If that's the criteria for ball toss, everyone should have little issues I think, just throw a little toss and quickly recline your hand to your waist.

They measured from the moment the ball left his hand. They did their job as it should be.