Der_Echte in NYC

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Deeply grateful for the time and help from Carl, 42andbackpains, PingPongHolic, and huge Props and Respect to Der and to NextLevel!

How do you feel about that Nexy Amazon with that sheet of MX-P on it? How did it feel to you?


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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Next Level spent a good long time with him going over serve return and serves. I spent a goodly amount of time with OSPH on looping underspin heavy, move back to position at leat a have step, pivot open, and be ready to smash attack.

OSPH did really well doing that in both practice and in a test match where I pushed his serves long.

He made a ton of progress in one hour.

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Mission complete 0700 hrs Monday, finally got back home. Avoided a nasty 12 car colloidal crash on the turnpike.

Had to rest halfway at rest stop. I closed eyes, opened them 1.5 hrs later, felt li,etc two minutes.

NL and I had another midnight summit at a Chinese run Korean place, next time we gotta go to a samgyupsal place.

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Don't let the sandbagger fool you. After he had clobbered me 3-2, 3-1, then I realized I had to attack even if I lost. That's what he means by attacking everything.

Yeah. BTW, I didn't miss the fact that he took PPH down 3-0 and after was trying to say, "I got lucky." Hahaha.


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Will be taking a bit to recollect from old man memory some thoughts for my AAR of this weekend.

First and foremost, my deepest gratitude to Mrs OSHP for letting me out of part of my family weekend duties... I stayed out a tad longer than we both expected and as a result i'm in da doghouse, but i spun (pun intended) in a way that it lessened my stay in the house of dogs.

2nd, I cannot thank you Carl, PingPongHolic, Der and NextLevel enough for the wonderful time and experiences from this past Sat/Sun!

Last but not least, deepest thanks to my Brother, 42andbackpains, for keeping the faith and egging me on.

AAR and Amazon prelim review coming shortly.
 
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NOTE: a longer post, which I'm known for :), in the Daily Table Tennis Chit

Reposting the relevant parts of that long post to this thread

--------------------------------

What a great and fun TT weekend!

Long AAR (After Action Report) follows... will give you the FRAT (Frag Reading All That version first):

FRAT version

Sat = Played Der_Echte 1 match - lost 3-0; played a match with 42andbackpains and luckily won 3-2... 42&bp should beat me easily

Sun = served/drilled with Carl for ~15 mins; played with Der_Echte 1 match - lost 3-0; played with NextLevel ... also coached by both Der and NL

UNABRIDGED VERSION

Saturday, Oct 1, 2016

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I got to the Korean TT club at ~10:30pm. The Squad were pretty much done for the day. Had my gear and because of the time, was ready just to hang out and chat and not play. Der said he still had many sets left in him.

We warmed up for 5 mins or so, my Chuck Knoblauch syndrome continued. Chuck was the 1990’s baseball 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] baseman who towards the end of his career, couldn’t throw to 1[SUP]st[/SUP] base, which is one of the primary throws/skills a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] baseman needs to execute. Some mental block. Using my Avalox P700, I’m missing the table on basic shots like FH during warmup. It has been 2 weeks like this. Prior to my malaise, I’ve been hitting/playing with the Avalox for ~4 months and was used to it as it became my primary blade. My solution was to warmup with my backup racket, an off the shelf 1980’s DHS racket, which I slapped on 2 old rubbers. It is way heavier than I am used to, as I’m an oldschool penholder and play with single side only. But my strokes were landing properly. Switched back to the Avalox for a few more shots and the match begins.

I didn’t expect to win against Der-Echte, a 2000-level player, but was going to give him my all. Saw his fast Rambo loops in a previous Goon Squad mission in doubles as well as face his high-toss serves, so I had some idea what I would be going up against.

By Der’s estimates, I won 80% of my serves and he won 90% of his serves. Lost 3 straight, mostly at 7 or 8 if memory serves. Have video of the match, will probably post, just didn’t have time to edit yet. All I remember was me eating all his serves. Couldn’t read them. After the match, Der confided to me that all he did was serve downspin and then topspin the whole match ... 1-2 .. same serves, same sequence! Man, I suck at reading serves, but also suck at discerning any patterns. LOL

What I didn’t expect was how underrated Der’s trash-talking game is! He is at least 2500! I tried not to let it get to me, generally don’t let it get to me, but the seed was planted firmly with the trash talking. What cemented it was my helplessness and free points he got off my botched attempts at return of serves.

I had a few decent rally winners, but for the most part, match was un-highlight worthy IIRC. Will review the video to see. Service returns continue to be a huge Achilles Heel for me! Thanked Der for the match as well showing me what I need to work on via match.

Played my friend 42andbackpains for a set. It was the first time in 30 yrs since he played with both sides smooth rubber. For the past 2 yrs, he has been using short pips on his BH. Eked out a win 3-2 over him, but I wasn’t executing my game/style the way I wanted to and felt he should’ve won. With his lessons with a professional coach, truly expect him to be a formidable player very soon. Feel he should beat me easily as well as our mutual old 1980's TT crew. If not for his backpains etc ... if he's healthy, WATCH OUT!

Everyone called it a night and we went to a restaurant for a midnight dinner. I was not hungry and just sat there soaking in TT discussions from players higher level than me. In attendance, Carl, PPHolic, Der and 42&bp. Awesome night!

An aside: it’s one thing to read on the forums that someone speaks a foreign language, it’s another to see it in action. Der was FLUENT in Korean and it was awesome listen to him speak with the club owner!

Sunday, Oct 2, 2016

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Got to the club ~4:30pm. I started off serving to Carl for maybe 15 mins my pendulum fast side-top serve to his BH. He has trouble with this serve and I wanted to help him out. He returned most of them, some with the BH pick/flick, some with his BH loop. He didn’t ‘eat’ as many. Truly hope that helped out his game!

NextLevel arrived and he worked with Carl a bit. Carl had to leave and we took a group pic. Reposting Carl's pic from Der_Echte in NYC thread:

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Der comes to my table and I politely explained to my partner, despite language barrier, I wanted to play Der as he was from out of town… I think she understood.

IIRC, all I did was serve side down the whole match to Der and he would push it back to my FH and I topspin looped it and ready for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] ball attack via smash, punch or loop drive. Still have problems with serve receive. Lost 3 straight, but it was more drilling but in an actual match. Der commented that I made a lot of the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] ball slow topspin loops, more than he has seen me before he coached me. An aside, recently JeffM posted a match vid in which he beat his opponent and NextLevel commented pretty much that the same combo of slow topspin loop and get ready to attack the blocked loop should be one of JeffM’s staples.

Played NextLevel next. Lost pretty easily, I think all at 5 or less. I was not thinking too clearly in serve placement ... served mostly long and fast to NL’s BH which he adroitly returned. Didn't remember to serve short to FH. Der on the side reminded me to try to serve sidedown and go for slow topspin loop. Many of my serves were too long and NL attacked them all not affording me a chance to 3rd ball slow topspin loop.

Unedited video courtesy of NL's channel:



4:19-4:24 – after nailing my 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] ball punch down the line, I missed my 5[SUP]th[/SUP] ball smash LOL at my inconsistency

4:37-4:49 – most memorable point for me, not because I actually returned NL’s serve, not because I saw the net ball, waited and successfully returned nor because I smashed the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] ball for a winner, BUT because of Der’s reaction to the point … he posted a comment about our Saturday match, that some of my smashes were moments to flex my bicep and here he was, right after my smash he got up and did just that… had me cracking up!

~12:16 – 32:58 NL coaching me

I got a text from my daughter informing me my wife is upset with me as I told her I believed i would finish at 6pm. Got home at 8:30 pm. Apologized to both NL and Der but I had to leave or else ... lol

Thanked them both for their gracious sharing of time, experience and playing with me!

p.s. the 2 things I need to remember of the many things I've learned this past weekend is:

1) Serve downspin, get a push to my FH, loop slow topspin, get reset and prepared for 5th ball attack

2) wrist motion - how to serve a real pendulum serve (i have a pendulum serve with wasted motion); serve receive; and loop

Sincerest gratitude to Carl, PingPongHolic, and 42andbackpains. And again my deepest gratitude to Der_Echte and NextLevel for working with me!
 
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Have not checked to see where to properly post this... will leave this prelim review here for now. Off to the TT Club.

-----------------------------------

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Blade: Nexy Amazon PenholdRubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P


FULL DISCLOSURE


~30 years ago back in the 21/5 Era, I played a lot of table tennis during my Junior High School/High School and College years. Started as an oldschool penholder pips then having not been able to have develop a decent backhand smash, I switched to inverted. My game is still a lot like a penholder pips player though with punches (aka push-blocks), angled blocks, some loops, but predominately FH smashing. I like to play close to the table.


Retired from the game to finish college, get married, start a family, and concentrate on career. “Unretired” and started playing again June 2015. My old favorite blade was a Double Happiness “08” – a 7 ply good for smashing. Used the old 729 Friendship rubbers predominately. My old blade broke a few months ago and been using an Avalox P700 … switched between a few rubbers but I’ve found my game is getting some semblance of what it used to be when I used a DHS H3. It took some adjustment for me to be used to Avalox’s vibration on smashes and blocks.


I’m not an Equipment Junkie, nor have I much experience with a wide range of blades and rubbers and writing formal reviews. But hopefully with what I posted above, others can read this prelim review with an idea of where I’m coming from.


PRELIMINARY REVIEW


Last night I played ~3 hours with it. Surprisingly, the feel of both the MX-P and Amazon were not foreign to me! I expected a huge/long learning curve, but it was like hitting with my old Double Happiness 08. Felt solid. Not sure if it’s the Amazon wood or if it’s the MX-P or the combo of both, but it felt solid. Didn’t quite have the touch to float on some serve returns, but that’s probably more a factor that I played against 2 players with heavy serves and my technique is da sux.


Loops/smashes - I was predominately working on slow topspin loops. Made a lot. Snuck some fast low, loop drives in here and there. I’m not a consistent looper but this racket felt good to loop with. Good close-to-the-table blocking and good smashes. I love to angle my blocks and move my partner side-to-side. The Amazon and MX-P responded well. I love 3rd ball smashing and surprising I didn’t feel that much vibration as I would with an Avalox P700 with DHS H3 rubber. The lack of feeling for me was just like my old blade. Perhaps I have not played with much of the modern blades and rubbers, but I like to NOT feel the vibration on the racket.

Handle - it's thinner than the Avalox chunky handle, closer to what I'm used to with the Double Happiness chinese penold blades ... I like it a lot.


Serves and punches – I’m a little quirky, I have shaved/filed my old rackets here and there to facilitate my grip for serves and punches. As it’s a test racket, I won’t customize it. The edges "bite" into my fingers/hand but I’ll live. The transition for me from a FH smash to a BH punch was not that smooth … again, think it’s a quirk with me and not having sanded down the handle area. Do not believe it’s an issue with blade or rubber.


Weight/feel - Although it feels lighter than my Avalox, it produces solid hits with no feel. The Amazon looks to be made for a modern penholder with both sides having rubber. I only have 1 sheet on and it feels good for me. At some point, I may put on a 2nd sheet and try out the weight and run it through my gamut of strokes.

CONCLUSION


For now, please accept my preliminary review. I will be playing with it exclusively for a few weeks to really “get” the Amazon as well as the MX-P and run it through the paces. Will post more in the future of my findings. Based on only 3 hours of usage, I recommend the Amazon blade and MX-P rubber with the proviso that readers understand my game/preferences. Expected a long learning curve but pleasantly surprised it acted much like an old friend, my former blade of choice.


Thank you and hope this helps!


~OSPH

CREDITS

Der_Echte for the test Amazon blade as well as the MX-P rubber he slapped on and Carl for the picture.
 
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The Amazon has a really slow ALL+ to OFF- gear close to the table, simply great for hitting close to the table, you land stuff you cant land with OFF or OFF+ blades. It has flexy, so on a power loop, top gear is faster, spin very heavy.

I do not believe OSPH will hve much difficulty playing his game with it.

OSPH asked me an honest question that is at the root of EJism.

How much does a blade and rubber matter?

I gave him the honest answer that I can BH topspin like a boss with a banana peel, so equipment is NOT at the top of the priority list, but I emphasized that certain equipment can greatly facilitate certain things.

I think he will enjoy the long term test of the Amazon. Nexy Korea mis-sent it to me and I had no one to make good use of it. MX-P is exactly the modern fh rubber he can be comfy with on FH. maybe Calibra LT on a stiffer heavier blade.
 
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Some thoughts after tonight's testing ...

PingPongHolic hit with the Amazon a bit. He said it was light. If single-sided use, should've gotten a heavier blade. Asked what the weight was. Explained Nexy sent it mistakenly. Not sure of specs.

He felt for mid-distance looping it wouldn't be so good. Felt blade should be good for my close-to-the table style.

2 other club members tried it... one of them advised I put a backsheet on for the weight, but also to preserve the wood. With the penhold grip, eventually the wood will have a hole.

Played a set vs a modern PH I always lose to. Had some good points but I won't clutter this thread as to why I lost. May post video of the match or just post video of highlights.

Hit with a long pips chopper for about 30 mins. At first I could not get any loops. In 5 mins or so, started looping better. Only got 2 or so mins video. Will mention my loops were bad, not the blade/rubber, as PPHolic was looping well with it close to the table.

Took a break. Later blocked a 1800 traditional Japanese PH. His loops were strong, felt a lot of vibration... perhaps adding the 2nd sheet will help. Hit for 30 mins or so. Nice low trajectory blocks on his mostly sidespin loops.

Will test it more tomorrow.
 
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I agree, it is light, especially with only one rubber. The slower top end and wood construction make this a close to the table hitting and topspinning favored setup. These kind of blades are a boss close to table and that is what OSPH does, so it matches.

PPHolic's game is on and off table and he has similar preferences to what I like.

I concur with the recommendation to add a rubber, even if you dont use. Have heart that Amazon is a solid constructed blade, the throat and handle are both solid, that counts for the feeling.
 
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I advise a Backside rubber to make it more heavier/more stable for blocking and punching.

Yeah. I can't imagine a blade with only one rubber on it. I like some inertia behind the ball. A 200 gram setup (total blade and rubbers) feels like the right amount of oomph behind the ball to me. If I was a one sided penholder, I think I would have to use one of those 10 mm thick 1 ply blades.

Saturday Night SmashFan could not believe that blade you had him try was 115 grams. :)
 
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