So bad lose against a veteran player (Match Video) What should I improve?

[langel]

I used tenergy in my forehand and I can't play effectively with that. Chinese rubbers are more suitable for me I think. And players in Turkey are not using chinese rubber. Maybe 20 or 30 players are using chinese rubbers. So they can't play to my forehand mostly. They are not familiar to chinese rubber players. They say "ball is vibrating while coming to me. I can't play for these balls." It's an advantage I think. And I use Tenergy for my backhand because, using Hurricane 3 for backhand is really hard. It makes higher balls while short rally as you can see. And backhand flicks are harder with that. I improved my control with BH with H3 maybe I will use Tenergy 05 tomorrow. I will try it on HL5. I hope it won't be a mega fast setup. I think it will be more consistent for BH.

I'm not asking you to use H3Neo on the BH, but just to try T05 on the FH, because just for now the style you demonstrate in this match is more euro, rather than chinese one.
Well, if you think that using chinese rubbers against your opponents is an advantage, its ok, but you have to develope a good chinese technique to get use of this advantage.
And I see another obstacle - if in Turkey very few players use chinese rubbers, it means that the coaches may be not very fond in teaching chinese techniques, so you would need to develope it more on yourself, and it could be much harder and less effective.

 

[Lightzy]

You should have called him on illegal serves and won the game on the spot because he obviously hasn't any legal serve.

That was so painful to watch I had to stop watching.

 

[Alpay]

I'm not asking you to use H3Neo on the BH, but just to try T05 on the FH, because just for now the style you demonstrate in this match is more euro, rather than chinese one.
Well, if you think that using chinese rubbers against your opponents is an advantage, its ok, but you have to develope a good chinese technique to get use of this advantage.
And I see another obstacle - if in Turkey very few players use chinese rubbers, it means that the coaches may be not very fond in teaching chinese techniques, so you would need to develope it more on yourself, and it could be much harder and less effective.

Our national coach said to me. "You are going to play with chinese technique. You are trying to play like that."

 

[langel]

Ok, then go on developing chinese technique.

 

[Alpay]

Ok, then go on developing chinese technique.

Yes, I want to develop chinese technique. But I don't know the all differences between western and chinese techniques. And how can I develop that efficiently? Thanks

 

[chuckjordan2]

You have asked us for feedback after recording your 3 matches. Have you sat down with your Coach and reviewed them? He/she is your coach......

Good points
-Game 1 your very first point at 0:13-0:14.
- Game 2 at 2:15 & 2:17, you had good shots and won the point.
What did you do differently to win your points?

 

[Alpay]

You have asked us for feedback after recording your 3 matches. Have you sat down with your Coach and reviewed them? He/she is your coach......

Good points
-Game 1 your very first point at 0:13-0:14.
- Game 2 at 2:15 & 2:17, you had good shots and won the point.
What did you do differently to win your points?

I didn't fear and attacked. Thanks

 

[Lightzy]

Yes, I want to develop chinese technique. But I don't know the all differences between western and chinese techniques. And how can I develop that efficiently? Thanks

Look this is what I tell all the new guys in the club:

Imagine the path the racket has to take for a perfect topspin, as if you don't exist and only the racket exists.
Can you visualize that path? That straight, unbroken diagonal movement?
Good, now help the racket do that. Don't think about your knees, wrist, hands, core, don't think about those million things, just think of the motion the racket wants to do and help it do that. You don't exist and the whole point is making the racket follow the ideal path it wants to follow for a topspin.

Uhmm... Yeah.

Well it helps. People tend to overthink the topspin and break it down into a million pieces, but if you think only of that one, things straighten out.

 

[Alpay]

Look this is what I tell all the new guys in the club:

Imagine the path the racket has to take for a perfect topspin, as if you don't exist and only the racket exists.
Can you visualize that path? That straight, unbroken diagonal movement?
Good, now help the racket do that. Don't think about your knees, wrist, hands, core, don't think about those million things, just think of the motion the racket wants to do and help it do that. You don't exist and the whole point is making the racket follow the ideal path it wants to follow for a topspin.

Uhmm... Yeah.

Well it helps. People tend to overthink the topspin and break it down into a million pieces, but if you think only of that one, things straighten out.

Sorry but I don't understand this

 

[langel]

Look this is what I tell all the new guys in the club:

Imagine the path the racket has to take for a perfect topspin, as if you don't exist and only the racket exists.
Can you visualize that path? That straight, unbroken diagonal movement?
Good, now help the racket do that. Don't think about your knees, wrist, hands, core, don't think about those million things, just think of the motion the racket wants to do and help it do that. You don't exist and the whole point is making the racket follow the ideal path it wants to follow for a topspin.

Uhmm... Yeah.

Well it helps. People tend to overthink the topspin and break it down into a million pieces, but if you think only of that one, things straighten out.

Yeah, I agree with what you say and this is a very helpfull way of concentrating on the result itself.
But at the same time I think that for a developing junior its very important to understand well the mechanics of every technique and to excersice every part of these mechanics. Once the mechanics start to work well on the background, he may concentrate more on polishing the final stages.

 

[Lightzy]

Sorry but I don't understand this

Can you imagine a racket playing topspin without a hand holding it?
Like in one of those virtual reality games or something? And imagine it going in a straight, unbroken diagonal line as when playing topspin?

Then imagine that and then make the racket move like that, without thinking of how your legs, body, arm etc need to move. Just think of the way the racket needs to move instead of how you need to move. I suppose it's more difficult to explain online.
It's not advanced, it's the very basic stuff

 

[Alpay]

Can you imagine a racket playing topspin without a hand holding it?
Like in one of those virtual reality games or something? And imagine it going in a straight, unbroken diagonal line as when playing topspin?

Then imagine that and then make the racket move like that, without thinking of how your legs, body, arm etc need to move. Just think of the way the racket needs to move instead of how you need to move. I suppose it's more difficult to explain online.
It's not advanced, it's the very basic stuff

Do I need this method?

 

[Lightzy]

Do I need this method?

a) Yes, because your topspin motion is inconsistent in the warmup and you don't seem to ever use it in the game
b) Definitely, if you want to learn chinese technique, or actually any technique, you need to first understand what arc the racket needs to travel, which is a lot easier to understand and execute than to think of how each individual part of your body needs to move.
It's a general kind of advice I give to new players, not something specific to you.

 

[Alpay]

a) Yes, because your topspin motion is inconsistent in the warmup and you don't seem to ever use it in the game
b) Definitely, if you want to learn chinese technique, or actually any technique, you need to first understand what arc the racket needs to travel, which is a lot easier to understand and execute than to think of how each individual part of your body needs to move.
It's a general kind of advice I give to new players, not something specific to you.

Oh, you say first understand racket arc and then understand body movements. I can learn the technique like that?

 

[Lightzy]

Oh, you say first understand racket arc and then understand body movements. I can learn the technique like that?

Yes. I think it is the best way to learn technique in any case. To visualize the perfect, ideal movement of the object (in this case the racket), and then physically make it move exactly like that. To learn the chinese technique for topspin, I think this is very important.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I am not so sure stroke technique is actually the issue. If it was, the visualizing might be useful. When Alpay takes a full stroke, the result is decent. The trouble is, he plays like he is scared of the ball and doesn't take full strokes.

It really is possible that the guys who talked about the equipment being too fast may be right. For whatever reason, even though Alpay is often way back from the table he is still taking soft strokes like he is scared of overhitting. That is the fundamental reason why it is usually more beneficial to develop your skills with a blade that is a little slower because, with a Off- blade, Alpay would have to be taking full swings rather than cutting back on the swing.

Perhaps Alpay visualizing finishing the stroke and taking a full stroke EVERY time would help. But his stroke itself, when he takes it, is not really the problem.

The issues on the short game and the soft strokes to simply put the ball in play are the bigger issues. And, really, game plan and strategy. What I see is Alpay putting the ball on the table and hoping the opponent will eventually miss as the main strategy I can see.

Still, Alpay's technique is pretty decent. And the more he plays, the better he will get.

And visualizing can really help technique improve. Its just that execution and planning are more the issue rather than technique.

 

[Lightzy]

Yeah overall the technique is decent, backhand is very nice (if a bit weak), but the forehand topspin... .... I see the forehand motion as deformed and also ingrained. It needs to be relearned. It comes up exactly the same in every instance.

This is exactly where visualization is best. To visualize the racket going through a fluid motion without change of direction or break of the movement.

You can see the forehand topspin in the last point of the last set (or the point before?).
First of all the hand goes down with the bat, which is good, but then Alplay raises the arm not as part of the topspin motion, and then the motion changes into a slap on the ball.Also there's a flick of the wrist, but it is only knocked back and not used in the actual shot. This shot goes in when he hits the ball when its very high, because there's no spin in it, so it goes direct onto the table from above, but when its low it always goes into the net because there's no lift.

You gotta have one fluid motion of the racket from the 'preparation' next to the knee all the way through to ball contact, no stopping or changing direction. Your body needs only to allow the racket to do that. Stop with the wrist and all that. That's later.

 

[jamesmith]

first of all, your basic stroke has to be improved. I just be honest with you, pls do not be offended. You played table tennis too soft like a rabbit, your stroke is not solid. The movement is not bad, the stroke movement is quite correct. You service is very weak, too high, no speed, not strong. A good service no need to have a lot different style, but need a lot of different spin, speed and position, a good serve should be same style but can be different spin, speed and position so that your opponent does not know what and where you serve. Same service but disguise the speed , spin and position then your opponent can not predict your service so easily. After service, your third ball attack is bad, if Your service should help you to stop people to attack you and help you to attack. but your service can not do both. When you return service, you always defence chop, no any intention to attack even the ball is high. If you don,t attack the bad service, your opponent will not worry being attack, he will just get ready to attack and control the whole game. Your chop is too soft too. Not much back spin on it. Far too soft. Don,t worry practise makes perfect. Go to China ,Shenzhen for a week to get some training there, it is cheap to stay there and get a good coach. You table tennis skill needs some change , you need a good coach to help you. If anything I can help , let me know.
EXample: the ball touch different part of the bat and change the spin so if you have the same style service but the movement fast , when the ball touch your bat at different part and create different spin, because your movment is fast so your opponent can not see clearly what you serve, but you should know yourself so that you can follow with third ball attack.

Hi! I'm alpay and I recorded a match which is the finale of 4th league of a veteran table tennis club. (I'm on 4th league because I started this year on playing veteran club league.) I lost badly to this veteran and I want to ask you what are my errors and what should I improve on my technique. I won this man 3 weeks ago. I improved a lot but I lost. Maybe I scared while playing. And I was a bit tired. But I won't make excuses. I played bad generally. I didn't deserved to win with this play. So I lost 3-0. I have videos of these 3 sets and a warm up video. Can you watch warm up and help to fix my technique? And I want you to watch my match video and tell my in-game errors. Thanks for helping!

WARM UP

1ST SET

2ND SET

3RD SET

 

[jamesmith]

QUOTE=Lightzy;231248]Yeah overall the technique is decent, backhand is very nice (if a bit weak), but the forehand topspin... .... I see the forehand motion as deformed and also ingrained. It needs to be relearned. It comes up exactly the same in every instance.

This is exactly where visualization is best. To visualize the racket going through a fluid motion without change of direction or break of the movement.

You can see the forehand topspin in the last point of the last set (or the point before?).
First of all the hand goes down with the bat, which is good, but then Alplay raises the arm not as part of the topspin motion, and then the motion changes into a slap on the ball.Also there's a flick of the wrist, but it is only knocked back and not used in the actual shot. This shot goes in when he hits the ball when its very high, because there's no spin in it, so it goes direct onto the table from above, but when its low it always goes into the net because there's no lift.

You gotta have one fluid motion of the racket from the 'preparation' next to the knee all the way through to ball contact, no stopping or changing direction. Your body needs only to allow the racket to do that. Stop with the wrist and all that. That's later.[/QUOTE]

 

[jamesmith]

there are still many good players to go to Zhenshen to learn or practise , but if you can not go, watch you tube video, it helps also

Hi! I'm alpay and I recorded a match which is the finale of 4th league of a veteran table tennis club. (I'm on 4th league because I started this year on playing veteran club league.) I lost badly to this veteran and I want to ask you what are my errors and what should I improve on my technique. I won this man 3 weeks ago. I improved a lot but I lost. Maybe I scared while playing. And I was a bit tired. But I won't make excuses. I played bad generally. I didn't deserved to win with this play. So I lost 3-0. I have videos of these 3 sets and a warm up video. Can you watch warm up and help to fix my technique? And I want you to watch my match video and tell my in-game errors. Thanks for helping!

WARM UP

1ST SET

2ND SET

3RD SET