Advantages of 1.8mm

You can read it up and you will find that there are a few philosophies about this topic.
In general it can be said that by your categories more rubber thickness gives you:

more spin, more speed, different sensation of control, a little bit more dwell depending on the stroke, a less direct feeling (blade feel depends hard/soft rubber on hard/soft blade).

you should always ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish when changing the rubber thickness.

the ball impact on softer rubber up to 42.5° sponge hardness can make the ball hit through to the blade (depending on topsheet firmness and hitting power). some people like this feeling. but its harder to generate power and spin and your technique can suffer because you may hit the ball more than spinning it or shorten your stroke to not bottom out the rubber.
the whole feeling gets more direct. i see most people putting thin soft rubber on their weaker side and just block push and open up softly. they consider this bottom out effect of their rubber as more controlled. Also softer have a stronger catapult effect most of the time which they try to keep in check by lowering the thickness.

on harder sponges (45°+) this effect does usually not kick in at over the table play and harder rubber may not even bottom out at topspin rallys. so here you can get a more direct feeling, less rubber speed, a harder rubber feeling overall and less weight.

so a rule of thumb in my eyes is: max thickness on rubbers up to 42.° degree. everything harder is preference and individual. some 45° have a really elastic topsheet so they bottom out faster, some 42° rubbers have a very firm topsheet and dont (05fx, el-p).

I think you should get a rubber in bot max and 1.8 thickness and just try out what feeling you like better.
Or if you trust you coach just do what he says, he usually knows more than you do and says that kind of stuff for a reason.
But he can be uninformed too. But that goes for random people on the internet like me too.

I prefer harder sponges (47º+) with less than max thickness myself. When returning to the game after not having played for a long, long time I found the newer generations of rubbers attractively alive (in comparison with the classics, Sriver and Mark V) but it took time to get used to the catapult in thicker rubbers. So I dropped back to 1.8mm for a while, and that worked for me.

Here's the thing. When I played seriously before, I think there was more variation in playing styles; sticking to the then dominant Swedes, you had the direct over the table style of Ulf ‘Tickan’ Carlsson, the power loops of Jörgen Persson, the versatile allround second-position style of Mikael Appelgren, the sorcery in service, blocks and spinny loops by JO Waldner, and then there were classic defenders.

Since then, "spin everything" has become preeminently dominant, and perhaps that style goes well with more dwell, power reserves in second position more readily available in thicker sponges. However, I still like to get really close to the table and go from counterloop to direct kill; to punch block; to kill flick. For all of these, max thickness (for me) blunts the direct feel of the blade somewhat. My own game gets less versatile if I max out; I'm using slightly thicker than 1.8mm now, but still choose not to max out.

Enough people here disagree with this; it takes every kind of people, or so they say.

TL;DR: what QWERTY said.

Usually there is 2.0 between 1.8 and max. Just sayin'.

QWERTY Spin said:

more spin, more speed, different sensation of control, a little bit more dwell depending on the stroke, a less direct feeling (blade feel depends hard/soft rubber on hard/soft blade).

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Yes. So if you buy the same rubber in 1,8 replacing max you´ll find it to be slower and you´ll have to "work" more.

If you buy a different rubber with other characteristics you may find a totally different experience.

I like the idea of buying one rubber in 1,8 and seeing where that gets you in comparison to your current max. Try it on one side, then the other, see if you like it.

One thing, if the idea is to get more "control" you may eventually find that the less speed = more control equation doesn´t work for everyone and every shot.

I honestly think it is a crutch that will impeded your development. But I am not your coach.

I agree with Baal, the coach is supposed to know the best, I would simply ask my coach why he is suggesting that ... may be he thinks the sponge is impeding your feeling ... but if I was your coach I would simply opt for a blade with more feeling ... the modern game is highly spin dependent and thickness of the sponge is the highest contributor to spin other than optimal technique .. .which always comes first ...

IMO, 1.8 is way worse than 2.0 or max. If you want more control and less speed, choose another rubber, or go for even thinner sponge.
Why I say that?
I played with various rubbers in various thickness and experience says:
1.8 is definitely slower than 2.0 or max, but there is a significant decrease in spin too. Slow open ups have similar spin compared to 2.0 and max but topspins against blocks/topspins and more aggressive openings have painfully less penetration. Because of that, you will want to hit harder, but with less spin your consistency will decrease. You have to control the ball with spin. The difference between 1.8 and 2.0 is huge. 2.0 is totally playable, even if I prefer max or boosting over it.
The other thing is that you might want to play an allround style with blocks, even chops. Then a spinny rubber in 1.5 might be good for you. Thin sponge is good for blocking or for deceiptive chops (not for heavy ones) . So if you want to play mostly passive and wait for your opponent doing a mistake, then 1.5 is excellent.

Are you playing with Yasaka A-1.2 and MX-P max?

Yep, I kind of agree with Baal. But I have not seen you play and I am not sure what made your coach make that judgement call.

You could ask him.

About the statement: “thinner sponge is slower”—I just feel the need to say: “It is more complicated than that!”

On rebound tests where the contact is flat, the thinner sponge is actually faster.

But the thicker sponge allows you to let the ball sink in more, hold the ball on the topsheet longer and allows the topsheet to act on the ball for more mechanical spin. All this is dependent on brush contact (tangential contact) rather than direct impact.

Therefore, with thicker sponge and good looping technique, you can swing harder and faster and still get more control because you are applying the force tangentially to add spin. The spin gives the control. And this allows you to also spin faster.

So it is not the rubber that is faster when the sponge is thicker. It is that you can apply more force safely because of the added spin.

Back to why I basically agree survive Baal. My premise is based on these two thoughts:

1) Higher level technique is based on learning to generate higher levels of spin.
2) Most players would like to improve their technique.

If those two concepts are the case, then what Baal said is exactly what I would say.

Thicker rubber will be what you want. And thinner rubbers could give you habits in how you contact the ball and choose to play that will ultimately get in the way of your progress.

But, if those two concepts are not in line with your goals, then, maybe thinner rubber is okay.

I know at least a few people who are evil flat hitters who play at a decently high level with low level slapadelic technique. So it is not like you can’t get pretty good with flat hitting technique.

The question is what you want. And it would be worth while for you to pick the brain of your coach to find out why he wants you to use thinner rubbers.


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One more detail. I have said stuff like this many times. I have heard other people say stuff like this many times.

“See what your coach thinks you should use!”

It is a good thought. It could go good advice sometimes. But not all coaches actually know what would be good for their students.

I will give an example that hits close to home.

My sister plays. And recently she asked me what rubbers she should get. I gave her two recommendations. The one thing I said fairly strongly was, that she should use the same thing on her FH as whatever rubber she chooses for BH.

For her, there is no question that is better for her then different rubbers for FH and BH. And she definitely should not arbitrarily choose different rubbers for FH and BH.

Well, the guy who coaches her is an excellent coach. But he does not really know so much about equipment. He knows what works for him. But not so much about what would be good for someone else.

So he told her to get one of the rubbers I recommended for BH and something totally arbitrary and totally different for the FH.

I think, now she trusts me that I recommended something good for her game. [emoji2]

Why did this coach recommend the arbitrarily different rubber for the FH? He knew she had used it in the past and that it would not be too BAD for her. So, a “safe” compromise. Not the worst thing in the world.

If I didn’t know an adequate amount about equipment his impulse would have been a decent one. A fool who thinks he knows about equipment but doesn’t, really should not be giving equipment advice. And there is a lot of that.

I could give an even better example. I know this guy who is at a pretty basic level. The racket his coach got him to get is soooooooo expensive and bad for his development that you can only assume that coach is the one selling the equipment. [emoji2]

Anyway, it is worth finding out the reasons behind the coach’s assessment of thinner rubber for you.


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A lot of good replies that are really in depth which I think pretty much cover the bases for the OP so I'll keep this short and be more philosophical at least the way I see it.

With the new ball being larger and therefore spinning ever so slightly less, I think generating spin has become even more important so therefore believe in going max thickness to generate that.

Keep in mind I play with a pretty stiff blade in the clipper so I like a super thick & softish sponge to give me that dwell that the blade does not since it has little to no flex.

Well, if you areplaying with Yasaka A-1.2 and Mx-P max set up, changing Yasaka or Mx-P max with a Mx-P or other inverted 1.8 makes a good sense. In the first case for softer transition from pips to inv, in the second case may be the coach has decided that pips+max make the difference much more than day and night. Anyway I think you better ask your coach and put his answer for discussion here as well, giving some more info about your style and level. For me the set up in your profile is not very common - is it your choice, or a coach advise too?

suds79 said:

A lot of good replies that are really in depth which I think pretty much cover the bases for the OP so I'll keep this short and be more philosophical at least the way I see it.

With the new ball being larger and therefore spinning ever so slightly less, I think generating spin has become even more important so therefore believe in going max thickness to generate that.

Keep in mind I play with a pretty stiff blade in the clipper so I like a super thick & softish sponge to give me that dwell that the blade does not since it has little to no flex.

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MX-P isn't super soft Or do you use it on the RPB side?

ajtatosmano2 said:

MX-P isn't super soft Or do you use it on the RPB side?

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No it isn't. But I would say it's very hard either. You'll have to excuse me as this is my first entry to a euro style rubber (enjoying it) coming from deadish/firm chinese rubbers which i never liked on the Clipper previously. I don't know. It simply feels a little springier to me.

I have MXP on the FH & FXS on the BH

Regarding dependance between spin and rubber hardness/thickness its really a matter of style and personal preferences /of course general theory is a must/.
For me, as I'm a surface brusher, there is not a sensible difference in spin between the hard and very hard rubbers of different thickness, especially for sharper top spin attacks at close to mid- distance, and I'm playing with a mid 2.0 mm.
But when I want to play with a heavy mechanically drived spin, I prefer softer max rubbers.

suds79 said:

I have MXP on the FH & FXS on the BH

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Ok, /it would be good to update your set up info/, then I think going to 1.8 for FXS will not be the best idea.
Maybe consider MXP 1.8 + FXS 2.0 or MXP 2.0 + FXS 2.2
Discuss with your coach.

UpSideDownCarl said:

On rebound tests where the contact is flat, the thinner sponge is actually faster.

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Yes. Was going to say that, then thought it makes things more difficult

UpSideDownCarl said:

But not all coaches actually know what would be good for their students.

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Indeed. We have one like that. Butterfly or nothing. Which would be ok if he knew the other stuff and was still convinced.

But he´s the kind who sees me play with green sponge (no look at topsheet) and says "I have tested that, it is too soft."

Oh yeah? Beat, Powersponge, regular, Grip, turbo or Powergrip?
Not to mention mine was a select pro version that in blind comparison would make him think twice about tenergy, if he was able to think

Airoc said:

Yes. Was going to say that, then thought it makes things more difficult



Indeed. We have one like that. Butterfly or nothing. Which would be ok if he knew the other stuff and was still convinced.

But he´s the kind who sees me play with green sponge (no look at topsheet) and says "I have tested that, it is too soft."

Oh yeah? Beat, Powersponge, regular, Grip, turbo or Powergrip?
Not to mention mine was a select pro version that in blind comparison would make him think twice about tenergy, if he was able to think

Click to expand...

This made me laugh. Thanks Airoc!


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langel said:

Ok, /it would be good to update your set up info/, then I think going to 1.8 for FXS will not be the best idea.
Maybe consider MXP 1.8 + FXS 2.0 or MXP 2.0 + FXS 2.2
Discuss with your coach.

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langel, did I miss something?

Didn’t suds say he likes to play with soft, thick rubbers.

Are you getting confused as to whose coach told him to get thinner rubbers? Or did my ADHD get the better of me and did I miss something?

Isn’t it the OP (Gjayesh) whose coach wants him to use thinner rubbers.

@Gjeyesh: do you actually use the Yinhe T11 Blade?


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