Illegal long pips are actually very fun to play against.

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think all the innovations have largely gone towards supporting the looping game, I think the frictionless long pips that are now illegal should have been allowed to stay, and let players adjust to them with practice. But again, that is my view.

I know, and that is guys like SJan will carry this to his grave and not move on.
But then, should the European be sour at the Japanese for coming up with the sandwich rubber?

The world has moved on, history has both good and bad, and it is about living in the present and developing for the future.

For the ones that love challenges (I won't say I love them, as my body is still aching), and not playing in ITTF tournaments, play with what ever you want - no rule book.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is exactly mine and James Z's point of view in this I feel, people don't like having to use better tactics and moving their feet more to perform more difficult shots.

I do feel, in today's world, even illegal long pips player needs to learn to use all 4 sides of the rubber. meaning, to learn to lp on the FH and to use inverted on FH and BH.
which means, one would need to know how to attack.

Just standing still and blocking won't make the cut.

 

[blahness]

I find this comparison unjust as for each of those examples you compared using these pips to something else doing all the thinking and playing for you where as you still need to be able to play pretty damn good table tennis to excel using this equipment.
Yes this rubber may be more difficult to play against however it simply requires adjusting your playing style.
Treated pips are obviously not allowed same as for example a VLC booster, however they are also easy to spot and then you could complain against them.
Super long pips however just add a bit of extra back spin and play shorter shots, there is nothing stopping you from pushing those shots back instead of smashing a no spin chop a shorter pip would produce

Yes, my go-to strategy is to do strong loops against them and push their short chopblock aggressively (fast and early timing to the corners) to force the weak "push" back to attack strongly.

I can beat them, but it's just not something I find fun to play against, and it doesn't produce the kind of exciting spectacular points that I can produce with other inverted players.

 

[blahness]

That long pip rubber looks interesting.

The analogy to badminton is interesting. I agree that in badminton you have to be 100% fit or else you are a chopped liver.

I play against a hard bat guy at the club. He poses a lot of problems to many players in the club. You always have to lunge forward to make sure you loop it at the right spot. When he attacks, you have to block the ball with slightly open angle. It really messes with your head and timing. I try not to play him more than once or twice a week. Or else it will mess up my strokes and my timing. But when we play I enjoy it. My head just hurts from all the thinking I have to do in the beginning and the middle of the rally.

He is good and is not good with spin so sometimes serving heavy spins actually works. So I always have to think when I serve.

But usually once we go 6-8 rallies he usually makes mistake so that bails me out quite a bit. I just have to keep on remembering to block with slightly open angle. That can be mentally exhausting.

There was a nasty "spin serve" that cropped up in badminton recently. The shuttlecock would spin and tumble aggressively in an uncontrolled manner such that their opponents simply outright missed the serve return or gave low quality pop ups to be smashed.

It was quickly banned within like a few weeks. Nothing about "diversity" of playstyle, just to protect a more "fun" meta for players to play.

I think we should do the same for TT, not protect those who want to rely on cheap tricks to win in unfair and unfun ways. This was the whole point behind the banning of illegal hidden serves and the whole move to plastic balls isn't it?

And this is why badminton is immensely more popular than table tennis lol.... Look at this forum, where are all the young ppl at?

 

[Doum]

I just wonder what happens when a long pips player comes up against another long pips player....

Something like that:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think all the innovations have largely gone towards supporting the looping game, I think the frictionless long pips that are now illegal should have been allowed to stay, and let players adjust to them with practice. But again, that is my view.

I would say, even if that is true, there is still way more push on attacking game and the world would still be in the same today.

ie, Sjan is such a loyalist to his agenda, but I asked him how many he has coached in that manner, he couldn't tell me.
if coaches are not coaching it, it will just go instinct, like Chinese penhold is and I'm not moaning about it, as I'm not encouraging Chinese penhold myself.

There is very little places in the world that pushes long pips training from a young age, either chop blocker or chopper, and believe it or not, Taiwan probably has the most long pips players in the elementary girls segment in the world - BY FAR too. I would say 1 out of every 3 girls is a pimple out player and a big majority of it will not attack with it.

This is a huge problem, as they are just looking for short term gains, and the little that can succeed long term are also the minority that stays in by junior high age, the rest will stop playing.
This seem to be the solution by parents wanting results and accolades and coaches needing to keep paying customers happy.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Few weeks ago you lied claiming that choppers were causing lot of upsets at World Championships in Durban. I am still waiting for proof.

You serious now?
How can you be so lazy to find results, yet you push (copy and paste) the same nonsense for decades (that is a lot of efforts.... lol)

WR64 beating WR38, that's an upset
WR54 beating WR24, that's an upset
WR125 beating WR56, that's an upset

You are a long pips fanatic,
if you can't even have facts or bother looking for them, then how can you be perceived as an expert in such field?

as I said, I enjoyed watching quite a few choppers causing upsets at the world championships.
from my eyes to my mouth

anyways, facts is in the pudding, long pips players playing in the world champion did cause upsets.
I can beat illegal pips players if I wanted to.
can you beat booster players?
can you develop illegal pips champions to take on USA legal rubber champions?

It is always better to let results do the talking.
I mean you spent is it 20 or 30 or 40 years going on with the same?
In such time and energy you spent, you could easily develop some high level illegal pip player, isn't it so?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Names for above at Durban please .

you too lazy, go check for yourself.
lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What exactly is my agenda ?
And how does my coaching address whatever nonsense you are talking about ?
Why should I be a coach or even a player , to have an agenda now ?

Well, that is the different between you and me

You moan non stop, for years/decades

Me, If I have a concept, a vision, I go and make it happen.
I'm not an expert or a super star, but 13 years ago I started something that no body has managed to do in South Africa.
I didn't like all talk and no action, so I proved to many that, many things are possible.

If I had your vision and your time on your agenda, I would have groomed illegal pips top player and beaten top players to prove a point that the only thing making this "player" not being champion is the banned pips.
Now, players can learn both legal pips and illegal pips, so there is no excuse of, oh but he/she can't play in sanction tournaments.
There are so many ITTF players playing in hardbats/ping pong world championships, so if you stay away from narrow mindedness, you can have both of both worlds.

any ways, keyboard warrior is one thing, actual hands on execution is another.

why should you? it will just give you more respect in what you say, otherwise, your words, and all moaning, really is just someone who can't admit defeats with what ITTF done to you (but you not even a pro, so why the decade long agenda?).

I don't see those penhold coaches going moaning non stop about ITTF banning or changing rules that led to the extinction of Chinese penhold.
one of my friend went from regular R16 player to someone who can't get into R64 due to hidden serve banned. Does he go moaning for decades?
These are examples of people's livelihoods at stake. Do you even live off what you complain about?

Some times things in life doesn't go your way. You can make the best out of it, or moan for decades.... what enjoyment is there to live a life on moaning for something that happened when, in the 1980s?

 

[NextLevel]

you too lazy, go check for yourself.
lol

He likes to argue from imagination, not from evidence. Not from reality. Bergstrom and Haponova/Gaponova use pips, Gaponova almost beat Wang Manyu. Even when his beloved frictionless pips were in fashion, no high level players used them and defenders were already considered a dying species.

 

[NextLevel]

I almost beat Waldner.

Still waiting for upset results from Tony's claims

Video of you almost beating Waldner?

The Gaponova video is on youtube.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He likes to argue from imagination, not from evidence. Not from reality. Bergstrom and Haponova/Gaponova use pips, Gaponova almost beat Wang Manyu. Even when his beloved pips were in fashion, no high level players used them.

I forgot about Gaponova,
was it like 3-4?

a WR100+ player versus WR3 player, to me, that is a damn good game, and near upset.
I was actually giving praises on social media of The Kiwi world top 100 almost beating a WR5, Gaponova's match was even closer, but I think I left my personal engagement of the Kiwi team took over what is true merits, Gaponova had the best 100 vs top 5 match this world champs.

The art of pimples is alive and well.
It is actually a bit sad that North Korean pips players will is not able to play, since they are zero world ranked and don't take part in these kind of qualifiers.

Early this year, I had a long chat with one of the Taiwanese very high profile head coaches (think the head coach of Lin/Chuan/Cheng's team). He actually took a team to North Korea a while back, he had both his players and Cathay girl players, that was dominating world junior circuits and even taking on the Chinese and Japanese.
So, they ended up loosing 3-0, and under fives to a bunch of unknown North Korea juniors girls.

I started the conversation as we were both sitting together and watching a choppers match and I asked, what will we need to do to make Taiwanese choppers level increase to the world level.
He said, no one in Taiwan knows how to develop a world championship chopper. The North and South Koreas are the only countries other than China to achieve such feat and then he told me the story of what he saw with his own eyes and saw how the North Korean trained.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Video of you almost beating Waldner?

haha, wanna see how he is going to get out of this one.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Does anyone else have photos of illegal long pips they played against or own?

I know quite a few that has them, but didn't really took photos in the past.
If I run past them in the near future, I will make sure to take photos of them.

They tend to be difficult to buy (not even SJan - James can get them it seems)

This Korean one is apparently the latest from that company, the 3rd generation and way better than the previous two claims the user.
I was not able to google it... lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I am still waiting for evidence of your claim of choppers (with names) acually beating (not almost) two winged loopers in Durban.

Even if your nonsensical claims are true at Durban, does that prove that there is currently a level & fair playing field in the 40+ plastic ball era ?

here is the link of evidence to my claims with facts.

it is a public website for the world to see, unless you got banned from it lol

World Table Tennis

worldtabletennis.com

Now, where your video of you and Waldner please!

 

[ander999]

I almost beat Waldner.

Still waiting for upset results from Tony's claims

And I beat Ma Long . Man this guy is so delusional.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

And I beat Ma Long . Man this guy is so delusional.

okay, game on
I'm going to challenge you, the man that beaten Ma Long!
So I will become the man that beaten the man that beaten Ma Long

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

delusional overload
I'm going to ignore the garbage in your posts.
Until you can send me 10 samples, you have zero dollar and zero stock. zero multple by zero is ZERO. Aint goint to make money with zero.
Howver, the dozens of TTD members that actually came to help kids before you in South Africa, I continue to thank them from the bottom of my heart.
Your part, you are neither sincere about it, or committed to even pull through. Keyboard typing at best and that is it.

Since you supposed to be some expert in pips, why didn't you reckoning any of the choppers players that had wins over stronger players?

any ways, if Han Ying has used these illegal pips
Sun Yingsha practice partners would also use them
Sun will know how to play against it, and the world will continue.

delusional is an illness, I do hope you seek some professional help.

Lets go back to OP and the fun of these pips,

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I just wonder what happens when a long pips player comes up against another long pips player....

I'll wager to say it shall be as exciting as watching a group of geriatrics playing PETANGUE on a lazy Sunday afternoon while sipping Earl Grey and eating crumpets.

 

[t.t.s.t.a.r]

I think we should do the same for TT, not protect those who want to rely on cheap tricks to win in unfair and unfun ways. This was the whole point behind the banning of illegal hidden serves and the whole move to plastic balls isn't it?

And this is why badminton is immensely more popular than table tennis lol.... Look at this forum, where are all the young ppl at?

I should like to say at 17 years of age I am one of the young people on this forum, and I can easily see why younger people wouldn't be too interested in joining this forum because it has become less about asking questions about table tennis and more about egotistic debates on who can play the nastiest sidespin against choppers to make them miss and arguing over who is the smartest and supports the better rubbers.

Also I am going to disagree that more people play badminton, according to these two websites, I cannot vouch for how accurate these numbers are but apparently over 80 million more people play table tennis per year than people play badminton. With table tennis having 300 million players per year and badminton having only 220 million. I would say this is quite a difference, that's 16 times the population of my small country.

How Many People Watch Table Tennis?[Table Tennis Viewership Statistics]

Everyone has their favorite sports, and 850 million fans from Europe, Africa, Asia, and America chose Table Tennis.

playtoday.co

How many countries play badminton?

The world governing body, International Badminton Federation (IBF) was formed in 1934 with nine members Canada, Denmark, England, France, Ireland, Netherlands,

thefootballlovers.com

Yes you may berate me for using the first suggestions that google gave me but you are more than welcome to trawl through the web looking for better numbers than these.


@Tony's Table Tennis and @James Z I really don't think you guys are getting everywhere, all this seems pretty pointless, you guys are both arguing on the internet and not much will come out of it.

James all we really want from you is your video of you playing the man himself Jan-Ove Waldner, you said you almost beat him so I would like to see you get at least one set, I hope its from your far back from the table chopping era with you using high aspect ratio super long pips because I'd love to see how they play against arguably one of the best players of all time. Also I'm curious about your chopping technique.