Who do you think will win the Rio Olympics 2016?

  • Ma Long

    Votes: 106 67.1%
  • Zhang Jike

    Votes: 34 21.5%
  • Dimitirj Ovtcharov

    Votes: 4 2.5%
  • Jun Mizutani

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • Chuang Chih Yuan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wong Chun Ting

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Vladimir Samsonov

    Votes: 5 3.2%
  • Jeoung Youngsik

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Marcos Freitas

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Other (Post Below)

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    158
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Question : If Samsonov loses to Zhang Jike , does he still get a bronze or is there a third place play off ?

And I did not think I would be saying this in this olympics , even though Zhang Jike has a better chance to beat Ma Long than anybody else right now, I would still root for the Evergreen Tree when he plays Jike ... , but if he manages to beat him , he better beat Ma Long .... ! :p ...

Sorry @NextLevel , our man got a little too nervous is what I think , why else so many half long serves ... I think that handed the initiative to Ma Long in the 2nd set and he just got to a higher place mentally after that ...

Carl jinxed him. But on a serious note, I have seen that match before - I saw it earlier this year when Aruna played Xu Xin. So I knew what to expect and didn't have any high hopes - the CNT really get up when they play Aruna. The problem is that you can't deal with that CNT quality of ball unless you play against it on a fairly regular basis. At this point, Aruna either has to get on the same team with OVtcharov or go to the CSL if he wants to improve against that kind of ball. But if you had told me that Aruna would make the quarters before the Olympics started, I would have laughed in your face.

People will say all kinds of things about technique this, recovery that and other kinds of nonsense. But it was clear that Aruna was having major issues with the spin level. That can only be addressed through exposure.
 
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I read an article a while ago that the CNT uses the first game to assess their opponent to see how they are playing, if they are playing according to their scouting reports. I would bet that they often use tactics to see if they work so they know what to do later in games. The article also stated that something like 40% of games at the world championships had a score of 9-9, so any tactical edge and plan for success at that point was crucial, and it was often based on what was learned during the probing during that first game.

Don't forget that in addition to being great players, the CNT probably also has a the greatest system in the world. I assume most of what they do is planned.

Perhaps the German team could learn from that, as their tactics seemed quite off this tournament.
 
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One thing I do know is that Aruna is amazing at tracking balls down and if he can get past the short game and into an open rally, he could have a chance with anyone.

I have a feeling NextLevel is spot on about level of spin and needing to play against those guys enough.
 
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Carl , I agree with NL and there is also that difference in mental stability for a pretender vis-a-vis somebody who thinks I belong at this level ...

Ma Long started exploiting his weakness on the backhand from the get go and then when he got the confidence that he has a 60-40 chance on FH - FH exchanges he opened up.

I was expecting Aruna to stage a comeback in the later sets once he got used to Ma Long's power , but unlike the famous Bojan Tokic - Ma Long match , which I still consider the definitive fight of a two winged looper vs Ma Long when both are at the top of their form and neither is breaking down mentally , I was somehow let down by the fact that Ma Long started looping his serves , long or over the table .

I felt thats where Aruna failed to take the game to him ... again .. different perspectives .. NL's understanding of the game is superior than mine and he spends much more time thinking and studying the game ... so I would readily defer to his observations ...



One thing I do know is that Aruna is amazing at tracking balls down and if he can get past the short game and into an open rally, he could have a chance with anyone.

I have a feeling NextLevel is spot on about level of spin and needing to play against those guys enough.
 
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I wonder what Vladi told to Dima after the match.. Can someone read lips? :D
Anyways - I was really glad that Vladi won.. After all he did and all of those years in top 10 and no medal from OG - he deserves this chance more - and Dima will surely have another one..
So thats it - and I expect tough fight with Zhang, I dont think this will be anything easy for Zhang.
I wish Vladi would win.. either with Zhang or later with Jun, I want him to get a medal!!!
 
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Dima Ovtcharov vs Vlady Samsonv Quater Finals Full Match HD. Closing the pop ups or intalling adblock takes you to the video. Enjoy mates :)
<a href="https://openload.co/f/6o8wde2qeKc/Dimitrij_Ovtcharov_Vs_Vladimir_Samsonov_Quarter_Finals_Rio_2016_Full_Match_HD.mkv.mp4"><img src="https://thumb.oloadcdn.net/splash/6o8wde2qeKc/b6kNN6QDfy8.jpg" /></a>
 
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Carl , I agree with NL and there is also that difference in mental stability for a pretender vis-a-vis somebody who thinks I belong at this level ...

Ma Long started exploiting his weakness on the backhand from the get go and then when he got the confidence that he has a 60-40 chance on FH - FH exchanges he opened up.

I was expecting Aruna to stage a comeback in the later sets once he got used to Ma Long's power , but unlike the famous Bojan Tokic - Ma Long match , which I still consider the definitive fight of a two winged looper vs Ma Long when both are at the top of their form and neither is breaking down mentally , I was somehow let down by the fact that Ma Long started looping his serves , long or over the table .

I felt thats where Aruna failed to take the game to him ... again .. different perspectives .. NL's understanding of the game is superior than mine and he spends much more time thinking and studying the game ... so I would readily defer to his observations ...

I think what you might underestimate is how exposed the top Europeans are to the Chinese. Nigeria has a strong TT tradition dating back to the days of Atanda Musa and his teammates in the 80s and Segun Toriola's in the 90s and 2000s. So the players can pretty much learn Nigerian technique and develop unique skill sets similar to the Europeans. You don't need to travel to China to become a good TT player if you have a good coach in Nigeria. Of course, how far you go depends on the level of TT you are exposed to and Aruna has been playing in Europe (first Portugal, now France). As you can see the coach was Nigerian. I and a friend actually hoped that Aruna would use Toriola for this match but who knows what the dynamics were.

What you are saying about Aruna's technical soundness under pressure is true but the problem is that Hurricane creates a different trajectory and ball quality which you have to train against. The Chinese also have the best disguised and powerful serve and third ball games so you aren't going to practice against that level of power and speed even playing the best European players. You need to play against Hurricane to read it better once you are playing at a high enough level.

Read Dima or Timo when they write about these things. Dima was complaining that Germany had lost Christian Suss and that losing a powerful looping training partner always hurts the level of practice. Timo talks about the temporary effect of playing in the CSL and training against that quality of ball.

When you don't have major success against that quality of ball, what memories are you going to draw upon to motivate you? Aruna had lost to Zhang Chao, Feng Yijun, Cao WeI, Xu Xin and Ma Long with this same issue. Some players adapt to that ball better than other but you need to train against it. Germany probably imported a few Chinese training partners for this. Nigeria doesn't have that kind of TT budget.

It will be interesting to see what Aruna does to address this and whether he wants to go further. But we also have to see if he retains this level as he didn't play people with tricky serve and third ball games. It would be interesting if he could join the super team in Russia with Mizutani and Dima and Samsonov for a week of training.

It's not about knowing more TT. The Nigerian TT Federation got new management about 3 years ago and that and Aruna's hard work is part of what is driving this improvement. Working with good coaches has shown me how important it is to train against a ceramic style and level to be able to read and play against it properly. People laugh when I check paddles before I play matches but trust me, I read strokes and my approach to the Hurricane ball is not the same as my approach to the Tenergy ball. The Hurricane ball can have both spin and speed in a way that the Tenergy or ESN ball, even with hard sponges, does not. People downplay it and put it down to the skill of the Chinese but just realize it is something you have to practice against. With European rubbers, spin and arc go together. With Chinese rubber, spin and speed can go together at a level you have to accept or you will get blown off the table.

Tokic has something in his background that explains his ability to deal with that ball. His father was a high level coach and I don't know his specific history but just take it from me, Tokic even with his losses vs them in recent times, just deals with that power at a better level than most.

It is like the first time you face a close to the table counter loop vs your opening loop. You are like WTF. But I'd you practice against it, you can learn to counter that loop as well. Ma Long has done that a lot against Aruna's ball. Aruna has not had to do that against the quality of Ma Long's ball. And once that gets into the game, the rest is frustration.

Aruna can back off the table and survive that ball against many players. But at this level, no chance.
 
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I just watched Ovtcharov vs Samsonov, really a strange match
Until the injury "as expected" with stronger Ovtcharov

Then after the injury Ovtcharov loses totally his focus and starts to make many "unforced" errors. I mean missing balls which should be easy for him. Samsonov on the other hand is playing on a faux rhythm, playing slowly voluntary to give Dima the first attack, but he attacks too strong and Samsonov is waiting calmly for an agressive block and scores many many points like this

When the rally lasts, especially FH to FH, its almost always Ovtcharov who wins.
In the 4th set, Samsonov really looks like he's suffering and giving away the set
Strangely in the 5th set, Ovtcharov loses totally his nerves and makes the same mistakes. Why doesn't he play more on Samsonov FH side ? especially you could see that when the FH stroke was vertical it was painful for Samsonov ??

In the 6th set Dima finally plays better, leading 8-4. He was making a slow opening loop instead of attacking the 3rd ball with power. but then he starts AGAIN to attack with power, resulting two times with a miss, and the 3rd time by a winning block from Samsonov. Then Samsonov gets twice lucky and with the resulting pressure, and a bit of luck can close the game. It looks also that with the adrenaline and victory approaching, he didn't feel much pain in this set.

A great win for Samsonov given the circumstances, but a pitiful performance from Ovtcharov I think.

I'm happy for Samsonov as I'm a big fan, but lets be realistic, if he plays like this, he will lose 4-0 without discussion to ZJK, or even Mizutani. I'm even afraid he cannot compete at all with his injury.

I really hope the pain will be gone with a night rest and he can play 100%

As for Germany in the Team's event, if Boll and Ovtcharov play like in Singles, they will be out very quickly of the tournament. I don't see them getting any medal. I see them losing in the first round to Taipei
 
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Zhang Jike Vs Chen chien An Round 3 Full Match HD

<a href="https://openload.co/f/t_sm1yLuJic/Zhang_Jike_Vs_Chen_Chien_An_Rio_2016_Round_3_Full_Match_HD"><img src="https://thumb.oloadcdn.net/splash/t_sm1yLuJic/kZZ-KhTQTFk.jpg" /></a>
 

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Can somebody kindly explain to me, why is it so difficult to find highlights for matches and why isn't ITTF doing anything about it?
 
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Can somebody kindly explain to me, why is it so difficult to find highlights for matches and why isn't doing anything about it?

ITTF doesn't have the rights to use footage of the Olympic Games, so they won't do highlight videos. If others try to upload highlights on Youtube, their videos will get blocked.
 
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I think what you might underestimate is how exposed the top Europeans are to the Chinese. Nigeria has a strong TT tradition dating back to the days of Atanda Musa and his teammates in the 80s and Segun Toriola's in the 90s and 2000s. So the players can pretty much learn Nigerian technique and develop unique skill sets similar to the Europeans. You don't need to travel to China to become a good TT player if you have a good coach in Nigeria. Of course, how far you go depends on the level of TT you are exposed to and Aruna has been playing in Europe (first Portugal, now France). As you can see the coach was Nigerian. I and a friend actually hoped that Aruna would use Toriola for this match but who knows what the dynamics were.

What you are saying about Aruna's technical soundness under pressure is true but the problem is that Hurricane creates a different trajectory and ball quality which you have to train against. The Chinese also have the best disguised and powerful serve and third ball games so you aren't going to practice against that level of power and speed even playing the best European players. You need to play against Hurricane to read it better once you are playing at a high enough level.

Read Dima or Timo when they write about these things. Dima was complaining that Germany had lost Christian Suss and that losing a powerful looping training partner always hurts the level of practice. Timo talks about the temporary effect of playing in the CSL and training against that quality of ball.

When you don't have major success against that quality of ball, what memories are you going to draw upon to motivate you? Aruna had lost to Zhang Chao, Feng Yijun, Cao WeI, Xu Xin and Ma Long with this same issue. Some players adapt to that ball better than other but you need to train against it. Germany probably imported a few Chinese training partners for this. Nigeria doesn't have that kind of TT budget.

It will be interesting to see what Aruna does to address this and whether he wants to go further. But we also have to see if he retains this level as he didn't play people with tricky serve and third ball games. It would be interesting if he could join the super team in Russia with Mizutani and Dima and Samsonov for a week of training.

It's not about knowing more TT. The Nigerian TT Federation got new management about 3 years ago and that and Aruna's hard work is part of what is driving this improvement. Working with good coaches has shown me how important it is to train against a ceramic style and level to be able to read and play against it properly. People laugh when I check paddles before I play matches but trust me, I read strokes and my approach to the Hurricane ball is not the same as my approach to the Tenergy ball. The Hurricane ball can have both spin and speed in a way that the Tenergy or ESN ball, even with hard sponges, does not. People downplay it and put it down to the skill of the Chinese but just realize it is something you have to practice against. With European rubbers, spin and arc go together. With Chinese rubber, spin and speed can go together at a level you have to accept or you will get blown off the table.

Tokic has something in his background that explains his ability to deal with that ball. His father was a high level coach and I don't know his specific history but just take it from me, Tokic even with his losses vs them in recent times, just deals with that power at a better level than most.

It is like the first time you face a close to the table counter loop vs your opening loop. You are like WTF. But I'd you practice against it, you can learn to counter that loop as well. Ma Long has done that a lot against Aruna's ball. Aruna has not had to do that against the quality of Ma Long's ball. And once that gets into the game, the rest is frustration.

Aruna can back off the table and survive that ball against many players. But at this level, no chance.

Don't blame on the equipment
These are the important things in TT:
If a player have a proper technique, good footwork and cleverness like YJS, then it is not easy even for the top class player to beat him.
If Aruna plays with Hurricane, I don't thik he can handle it...
 
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Here's the problem, the IOC (Olympic Committee) reserves all rights (and rightfully so), but goes on to do a very shitty job at publishing the highlights and representing the sport. Giving the burden to the ITTF and letting them handle their own domain would be a win-win for both, the ITTF and the viewer, with the IOC missing out. As usual, money talks.

I'm not sure how this was handled 4 years ago at the London Olympics, but I don't think the coverage was that bad?
 
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I'm not sure how this was handled 4 years ago at the London Olympics, but I don't think the coverage was that bad?

Pretty much the same. The full replays of London that are available on Youtube now were uploaded a couple weeks after they were played. I think the same will happen this year.
 
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Don't blame on the equipment
These are the important things in TT:
If a player have a proper technique, good footwork and cleverness like YJS, then it is not easy even for the top class player to beat him.
If Aruna plays with Hurricane, I don't thik he can handle it...

English is probably not your first language. I am not blaming anything on equipment - I am saying that there is a level of play and quality of ball that Aruna has not familiarized himself with and he needs to play against that level more consistently to be able to deal with it.

If you have not played against Tenergy and Hurricane and noted the difference in ball quality, good for you. YJS practices with Chinese players and the Koreans know how to adapt to that quality of ball.

Or are you telling me that Jonathan Groth doesn't have proper footwork and technique?

The main reason why I think Aruna can adapt is that he has improved a lot in the past 3 years. USually, I Tell people that if you didn't start something when you were young, forget about it. But the improvements in backhand play that Aruna has made in the past year are not trivial and make me believe that if he played the Chinese more often he would adapt.
 
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Pretty much the same. The full replays of London that are available on Youtube now were uploaded a couple weeks after they were played. I think the same will happen this year.

The youtube scanning devices that automatically remove videos have gotten smarter so you have to do things to hide the Olympic rings etc.
 
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