Dimitrij Ovtcharov using Hurricane rubber at World Cup 2016!

[Jabugo]

One of my favorite players is Vladimir Samsonov, and he uses MX-P which is factory boosted rubber. No one ever called him a cheater by claiming he's only top 10 at his age because he boosts. The rules are clear. If the factory boosts it, then it's perfectly legal. DHS sponsors the CNT. It's easy for DHS to supply its players with boosted rubber.

 

[AgavE]

Mizutani calls CNT "chemists" or something contemptuously. That's a fact.
Mostly of all top players in the world use boosted rubbers. That's another fact.

 

[AgavE]

Vladi is my favourite player too, but he is not using rubbers wich you or me can buy at any tt store. Tibhar made rubbers specially for him(weight hardness). And i'm not sure he's not boost his rubbers by himself.

 

[The Omega Man]

Karlson boosts too, he even admitted it here once.

 

[tikitiki]

One of my favorite players is Vladimir Samsonov, and he uses MX-P which is factory boosted rubber. No one ever called him a cheater by claiming he's only top 10 at his age because he boosts. The rules are clear. If the factory boosts it, then it's perfectly legal. DHS sponsors the CNT. It's easy for DHS to supply its players with boosted rubber.

it would be too complicated for the manufacturer to boost the rubber.
boosting only lasts for a couple of weeks.
between boosting, storing the rubber, sending it by mail, etc... all the booster is gone.
also they would have to send one boosted rubber like every month.
makes much more sense that they do the boosting themselves.

also it's incorrect to say that mx-p is factory boosted.
it is much faster when new but you can say the same thing for tenergy and basically any rubber that came out after the speed glue ban.

 

[Boogar]

it would be too complicated for the manufacturer to boost the rubber.
boosting only lasts for a couple of weeks.
between boosting, storing the rubber, sending it by mail, etc... all the booster is gone.
also they would have to send one boosted rubber like every month.
makes much more sense that they do the boosting themselves.

also it's incorrect to say that mx-p is factory boosted.
it is much faster when new but you can say the same thing for tenergy and basically any rubber that came out after the speed glue ban.

I think that all the tensor rubbers are factory boosted. Or even the H3N is, that why its sponge is tacky and smells like fish.

 

[Jabugo]

it would be too complicated for the manufacturer to boost the rubber.
boosting only lasts for a couple of weeks.
between boosting, storing the rubber, sending it by mail, etc... all the booster is gone.
also they would have to send one boosted rubber like every month.
makes much more sense that they do the boosting themselves.

also it's incorrect to say that mx-p is factory boosted.
it is much faster when new but you can say the same thing for tenergy and basically any rubber that came out after the speed glue ban.

Okay, I admit I have no way of proving that mx-p is factory boosted. But when my mx-p was new, it had a strong booster smell. And now it has also shrunken a bit on my blade. My t80 never had the smell nor shrunk like the mx-p. The manufacturer never claimed that mx-p is boosted, but my own senses tell me that it is. It is also strange that Tibhar does not show where mx-p is made, so they are definitely not revealing the whole truth about this rubber.

So where do you get your facts that all rubber after the speed glue ban is free from factory boosting? It isn't illegal for the manufacturer to boost. And how do you know it would be too difficult for them to boost rubber? Do you work for the Tibhar rubber factory (where ever that may be)?

 

[Suga D]

it would be too complicated for the manufacturer to boost the rubber.
boosting only lasts for a couple of weeks.
between boosting, storing the rubber, sending it by mail, etc... all the booster is gone.
also they would have to send one boosted rubber like every month.
makes much more sense that they do the boosting themselves.

Obviously you don't seem to know how things work.
So here's the story
I have a friend who once was sponsored by Butterfly but he "only" made it up to 2nd Bundesliga even though he played internationally as a youngster. And he would get a new rubber whenever he needed it, but he wasn't allowed to give it away. He had to send it back to BTY.
(Edit:
Now one can now think: damn, they're greedy, or one could say: maybe something shall be hidden from the public eye that isn't meant to be seen by the public eye...)

Before that he was sponsored by Nittaku and could order a certain amount of rubbers per month (!!!)
and then do with the rubber whatever he was up to.
Many times he just gave them away, sometimes to me and other friends.

There even is a company that calls itself
http://www.tt-tuning-center.de
Guess how they earn their money.

Some get their rubbers sent by express mail. But this company officially only works together with tabletennis companies not private persons.
There is a german forum where someone posted how he got lucky and could get 2 rubbers from the tabletennis tuning center.
Here's the link for you to see.
http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?t=89574

But you can only view the pic if your a member.
So here it is.... Hope I don't get in trouble for posting this here.

also it's incorrect to say that mx-p is factory boosted.
it is much faster when new but you can say the same thing for tenergy and basically any rubber that came out after the speed glue ban.

Do you actually know what "Tensor" stands for?
If not here's a clue.
The rubber (topsheet) is put under Tension...

Now how do you think they do that?

By expanding the sponge....

How do they expand the sponge?

Well, ofc by adding booster....

[Emoji12]

 

[Suga D]

Okay, I admit I have no way of proving that mx-p is factory boosted. But when my mx-p was new, it had a strong booster smell. And now it has also shrunken a bit on my blade. My t80 never had the smell nor shrunk like the mx-p. The manufacturer never claimed that mx-p is boosted, but my own senses tell me that it is. It is also strange that Tibhar does not show where mx-p is made, so they are definitely not revealing the whole truth about this rubber.

So where do you get your facts that all rubber after the speed glue ban is free from factory boosting? It isn't illegal for the manufacturer to boost. And how do you know it would be too difficult for them to boost rubber? Do you work for the Tibhar rubber factory (where ever that may be)?

Don't worry mate, your senses are working correct.
Tensor means pre boosted.
Tibhar rubber factory = ESN (well for most of their rubbers)
And they don't produce exclusively for tibhar...

 

[Ilia Minkin]

Don't worry mate, your senses are working correct.
Tensor means pre boosted.
Tibhar rubber factory = ESN (well for most of their rubbers)
And they don't produce exclusively for tibhar...

Is Tenergy also boosted?

 

[Suga D]

Is Tenergy also boosted?

I don't think so. At least not the commercial versions. I guess they use a different technique to put the topsheet under tension. It also doesn't wear off so fast compared to ESN Rubbers and you can see or rather smell yourself that tenergy rubbers don't smell as strong as ESN Rubbers do.

BTW: ESN Founder Dr. Nicklas used to be also co-founder of Donic before he founded his own company and "imported" plenty of knowledge of r&d from japanese rubber experts. I think it's safe to say japanese scientists.
And I also think it's safe to say german rubber technology wouldn't have been possible or maybe very different without these experts where some were formerly working for Yamato Clan or Tamasu Clan.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I don't think so. At least not the commercial versions. I guess they use a different technique to put the topsheet under tension. It also doesn't wear off so fast compared to ESN Rubbers and you can see or rather smell yourself that tenergy rubbers don't smell as strong as ESN Rubbers do.

Not all ESN rubbers smell strongly (or at all) right out of the package. But the loss of speed & spin with time as well shrinkage is quite noticeable. I once tried a few months old, heavily shrunk MX-P -- even though the topsheet was still grippy, it was impossible to spin with it. A huge contrast with a fresh one.

 

[Baal]

I don't think so. At least not the commercial versions. I guess they use a different technique to put the topsheet under tension. It also doesn't wear off so fast compared to ESN Rubbers and you can see or rather smell yourself that tenergy rubbers don't smell as strong as ESN Rubbers do.

I agree with this. The Tenergy that I have always had seems unboosted. In VERY marked contrast to MX-P.

 

[Baal]

it would be too complicated for the manufacturer to boost the rubber.
boosting only lasts for a couple of weeks.
between boosting, storing the rubber, sending it by mail, etc... all the booster is gone.
also they would have to send one boosted rubber like every month.
makes much more sense that they do the boosting themselves.

also it's incorrect to say that mx-p is factory boosted.
it is much faster when new but you can say the same thing for tenergy and basically any rubber that came out after the speed glue ban.

I don't think this is correct. MX-P smells like booster. Not like some other chemical, but like booster; and moreover, as that particular smell subsides over time, the rubber loses some of its very good qualities. I am not sure what their magic booster formula is, but it lasts awhile. I am convinced that one of the secrets to that particular ESN rubber is some booster like substance added to the rubber at the factory. Of course it has a really good topsheet also, and the sponge is good, but part of the effect is factory boosting, I am absolutely sure of it. Notice also that this generation of ESN rubbers no longer has the Tensor Bios trademark. They have developed something different from what they had before.

Tenergy is not like that at all, does not have that smell, and retains a relatively stable playing property for a longer time (but not long enough as things stand at the moment to justify the price differential, which is why at the moment I am using MX-P and am very happy with it). I think part of the secret to Tenergy is the sponge structure itself. ESN (eventually) figured out part of it, maybe not all of it, and their strategy is to find a way to add booster somewhere in the manufacturing process (which is not the way we do it when we boost at home, and would not be particularly complicated for them to add one step to the process).

Earlier Donic and ESN rubbers (the ones with the Tensor-Bios trademark) had a different sponge (fine pores) and different and not so good topsheets (also very fragile) and if they developed their tension by some form of booster (which I suspect) it was not the same as what they came up with later, and it did not have that same smell at all. Those earlier Tensor rubbers (F1 Desto was the first one I tried many many years ago) threw lower and the various ones I tried never could develop the same level of spin that you get with MX-P. So I stuck with Tenergy 05 from 2008 until a couple of months ago.

 

[Baal]

Suga, just noticed that the tuning center is in Neuwied. I believe Soulspin is there too and it's a fairly small town. Connection?

 

[slevin]

Suga, just noticed that the tuning center is in Neuwied. I believe Soulspin is there too and it's a fairly small town. Connection?

Well, same person (Lukas Pietzsch) is the MD at both places.

 

[Suga D]

Suga, just noticed that the tuning center is in Neuwied. I believe Soulspin is there too and it's a fairly small town. Connection?

They are even located under the same address...

[Emoji2]

 

[tikitiki]

Okay, I admit I have no way of proving that mx-p is factory boosted. But when my mx-p was new, it had a strong booster smell. And now it has also shrunken a bit on my blade. My t80 never had the smell nor shrunk like the mx-p. The manufacturer never claimed that mx-p is boosted, but my own senses tell me that it is. It is also strange that Tibhar does not show where mx-p is made, so they are definitely not revealing the whole truth about this rubber.

So where do you get your facts that all rubber after the speed glue ban is free from factory boosting? It isn't illegal for the manufacturer to boost. And how do you know it would be too difficult for them to boost rubber? Do you work for the Tibhar rubber factory (where ever that may be)?

I owned mx-p
I didn't notice any particular smell when new.
I mean all rubbers when new have some smell....
I generally use t05, with butterfly free chack ii, and it has shrunken a lot.

What I'm saying is all rubbers shrink and all rubbers smell when new, so either they are all factory boosted or none is.

there are other category of rubbers, the ones you can identify as boosted like haifu whale II.

 

[tikitiki]

I don't think this is correct. MX-P smells like booster. Not like some other chemical, but like booster; and moreover, as that particular smell subsides over time, the rubber loses some of its very good qualities. I am not sure what their magic booster formula is, but it lasts awhile. I am convinced that one of the secrets to that particular ESN rubber is some booster like substance added to the rubber at the factory. Of course it has a really good topsheet also, and the sponge is good, but part of the effect is factory boosting, I am absolutely sure of it. Notice also that this generation of ESN rubbers no longer has the Tensor Bios trademark. They have developed something different from what they had before.

Tenergy is not like that at all, does not have that smell, and retains a relatively stable playing property for a longer time (but not long enough as things stand at the moment to justify the price differential, which is why at the moment I am using MX-P and am very happy with it). I think part of the secret to Tenergy is the sponge structure itself. ESN (eventually) figured out part of it, maybe not all of it, and their strategy is to find a way to add booster somewhere in the manufacturing process (which is not the way we do it when we boost at home, and would not be particularly complicated for them to add one step to the process).

Earlier Donic and ESN rubbers (the ones with the Tensor-Bios trademark) had a different sponge (fine pores) and different and not so good topsheets (also very fragile) and if they developed their tension by some form of booster (which I suspect) it was not the same as what they came up with later, and it did not have that same smell at all. Those earlier Tensor rubbers (F1 Desto was the first one I tried many many years ago) threw lower and the various ones I tried never could develop the same level of spin that you get with MX-P. So I stuck with Tenergy 05 from 2008 until a couple of months ago.

tenergy also becomes slower with time.
the andro rasant I have is pretty old, like 1 year, but I haven't used it that much.
when I glue it, the first session, it's pretty fast and bouncy.
after the first session it changes completely.
it becomes almost like a chinese rubber.

 

[AndySmith]

I owned mx-p
I didn't notice any particular smell when new.
I mean all rubbers when new have some smell....
I generally use t05, with butterfly free chack ii, and it has shrunken a lot.

You must have a faulty nose. I would send it back. Different rubbers smell different, and some have very clear booster smells.

That aside, I sort-of agree with some of what you say, but not your conclusion. I think some people have an odd idea of what "factory boosted" means, and conflate manufacturing processes (ESN, Butterfly) with after-production boosting (Haifu, probably DHS), putting it all in the same pot, which is OK as long as you're clear about the distinction IMO.

But anyway - for me, factory boosting isn't just taking a vanilla product we can all buy and doing something special to it, it's treating the rubber with a physical or chemical process which is designed to add "tension" by expanding it. Could be adding something to a finished product, or using something during manufacturing, whatever. This will always be a short/medium term effect depending on what was used. The give-away is that the rubber shrinks after a time, most noticeable when you've had it on a blade for several months and remove it. Initial signs could also be the smell, and any signs of the rubber curling or doming out of the packet, but these aren't reliable and their absence doesn't mean that the rubber hasn't been expanded. Many boosters are odourless.

ESN had a phase where their rubbers didn't have a particular smell (just a vague chemical whiff), but had a lot of doming out of the packet, very noticeable on their softer-sponged products (aurus sound, rakza 7 soft, etc). Annoying to glue down. Then they had a phase where the rubber came flat out of the packet, but there was a very strong and obvious booster smell (TRF booster), and the rubber's performance drops over time (Bluefire M, Evolution -P, Joola MAXX, Gewo Nanoflex - I'm really surprised that you can't smell this on MX-P, it's blindingly obvious). Since then, many more recent ESN don't have the TRF smell (MX-S, Rakza X, Omega V, lots and lots of others), but that doesn't mean they aren't using an odorless booster. Who knows? I've also noticed that they don't shrink as much as they used to over time - I've got a few sheets of Omega V Asia which are one year old now, off their blades, and they still fit perfectly.

About Butterfly - Tenergy has a smell when fresh out of the packet, but it's more like a faint smell of pine, and running your finger over the sponge has a slightly oily feel (in comparison with other rubbers). The big red flag is how much tenergy shrinks over time. IMO, it's definitely factory boosted (meaning the sponge is expanded as part of the process, and the effect is going to dissipate over time, not that some random bloke takes tenergy sheets off the production line and brushes the sponge with haifu oil or some nonsense like that). This isn't me having a go at Butterfly, and Tenergy is a great rubber, but the real world is what it is - modern rubbers are made like this, and the actions of the ITTF mean that you can't legally extend the life of your rubber by boosting personally. I also think that Butterfly have changed what they do with Tenergy over the years - I got my very first sheets on release day and they didn't have the pine smell, didn't shrink anywhere nearly as much, and kept their playing properties for longer (but were possibly slower - this is a few years ago now, so I can't expect perfect recall here). It's very hard to know anything for sure - even pros aren't allowed to see everything when they visit the factory (check Freitas' comments on this in his TTD podcast), but this is just my opinion based on what I see and feel.

For another interesting viewpoint, see this blog entry, linked from tak9.com today:

http://blog.naver.com/defunct/220830269324

It's a little blog entry (I presume from Nexy themselves) about Nexy Karis M, and their "insider" view on the recent history of rubber production. Not unbiased, but interesting nonetheless.

And this is without getting into the murky world of chinese-made rubber, after-production boosting of stuff by DHS for the CNT, or touching on recent made-in-japan stiga rubbers which have a pronounced curl reminiscent of early-gen ESN. And there are still rubbers on the market which don't shrink, and so I would imagine aren't factory boosted.